Middle East Running Iranian threat news and discussion thread

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
The problem is, the military is part of the political establishment, and anyone with a star on their shoulder is more politician than soldier.

The enlisted grunts may not be politicians, but pretty much everyone who yeans for a star knows it requires playing the political games.

Edit: In other news, the Taliban are trolling Iran now.

Bacle.
Have you ever worked with officers?
While yes a lot get political, in order to survive, plenty of then I know for a fact are not in line with the shit being pushed.
Having worked with...what at least 5 to 10 officers with the same attitude as me.
And plenty of Senior Enlisted and Warrants
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Bacle.
Have you ever worked with officers?
While yes a lot get political, in order to survive, plenty of then I know for a fact are not in line with the shit being pushed.
Having worked with...what at least 5 to 10 officers with the same attitude as me.
And plenty of Senior Enlisted and Warrants
No, but I've had officers for family, including a cousin who was an F-4 pilot who eventually became head JAG officer at the Air Force Academy for a few years, and a former NATO 4 Star who was his father-in-law.

My impression is, if an officer wants to be successful in their own career, being political is not optional; if an officer is not looking to get promoted but help the enlisted under them, I can see them putting the career-useful politics aside.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
No, but I've had officers for family, including a cousin who was an F-4 pilot who eventually became head JAG officer at the Air Force Academy for a few years, and a former NATO 4 Star who was his father-in-law.

My impression is, if an officer wants to be successful in their own career, being political is not optional; if an officer is not looking to get promoted but help the enlisted under them, I can see them putting the career-useful politics aside.
I work woth plenty.
Yes, technically they have to play politics, but only for certain positions.
Because they basically get interviewed for positions
 

Lord Sovereign

The resident Britbong
It gets really annoying watching you people completely miss the point.

Zachowon isn't saying that Iraq, Afghanistan, and Vietname weren't wars lost. They were, and as he says, they were lost politically.

The problem the US has is political, and acting like it isn't won't solve anything.
Not to mention that in those wars whenever the US Military was allowed to do its job, the enemy got sodomised.

The issue as ever is civvies (specifically liberal civvies) playing at soldier and not letting the professionals do their jobs. For example, had a “Vietnamicus” been put in charge and given carte blanche, that war would have ended very differently and very quickly.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
Not to mention that in those wars whenever the US Military was allowed to do its job, the enemy got sodomised.

The issue as ever is civvies (specifically liberal civvies) playing at soldier and not letting the professionals do their jobs. For example, had a “Vietnamicus” been put in charge and given carte blanche, that war would have ended very differently and very quickly.

That just was not going to be in the cards.

Fact is America and western nations had a lot of weakness's in the fight against communism. One of them was that so much of the press was rooting for the other team sometimes quite openly, which meant the soviets could follow one set of rules while the west had to play by a higher standard.

America was also a complete neophite playing against russia in its own game, add to that the fact that the world wars basically destroyed europe culturally and fucking tramatized the entire continent and the US was stuck playing with kid gloves. Was it ideal fuck no, we made a hell of a lot of failures but you get stuck dealing with the cards your dealt not the cards you want.

Fact is I eventually see the military being let off its chain eventually, but only after the current leadership has utterly discredited itself and the west hits its fuck it moment.

you do not want to be in the splash zone of said fuck it moment.
 

History Learner

Well-known member
Ah.
So the fact that it helped Iran get a stronger stance is not the militaries doing.
It is the government politicians doing.

Nope, the official history directly blames strategy composed on the ground by the U.S. military as a key factor in the ultimate failure in Iraq. I also find this argumentation strategy of yours particularly funny because it basically concedes Iran will kick our ass in any conflict; if these shadowy forces were enough to lose us Iraq, do you not think they won't in a direct conflict in Iran? Better be careful before the Mullahs get you, Zachowon.

It is also a bunch of officers jacking each other off.
Ask the ones who did the fighting on the ground.
@The Whispering Monk

Except it's the Army's official history wrote by officers who were, in fact, there and commanded troops. No one claims we didn't lose, it's why you had to refer to undefined ones.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
US Navy Guided Missile Destroyer USS McFaul thwarted two attempts by Iranian military vessels to hijack two different oil tankers in the Gulf of Oman this morning. In the second attempted hijacking the Iranian vessels reportedly opened fire on the Bahamian-flagged oil tanker with small arms and crew served weapons.

 

DarthOne

☦️
US Navy Guided Missile Destroyer USS McFaul thwarted two attempts by Iranian military vessels to hijack two different oil tankers in the Gulf of Oman this morning. In the second attempted hijacking the Iranian vessels reportedly opened fire on the Bahamian-flagged oil tanker with small arms and crew served weapons.


There is blood in the water. The sharks smell weakness.
 
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Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Apparently the Iranian ship involved wasn't even from the IRGC as per usual but one of their two Bayandor-class Iranian Naval corvettes.

 

Aaron Fox

Well-known member
Who would go to the assistantance of Iran if they're firing on shipping?
Think of it this way, Iran has easy capability to nuclear weapons, one of those 'nukes in months' states thanks to Trump's (bare minimum) sheer stupidity. It also has missiles that can yeet those nukes into various countries.

There are millions of good reasons that this is going to be ignored.
 

Knowledgeispower

Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
Think of it this way, Iran has easy capability to nuclear weapons, one of those 'nukes in months' states thanks to Trump's (bare minimum) sheer stupidity. It also has missiles that can yeet those nukes into various countries.

There are millions of good reasons that this is going to be ignored.
well if need be we can reduce those plants to rubble if we want to no?
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Who would go to the assistantance of Iran if they're firing on shipping?

Probably similar to the same countries that are actively supporting Russia against Ukraine. So like Russia and Syria and Best Korea and Venezuela.

Most would desire to be neutral dependent on how Iran provoked the conflict.
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
Think of it this way, Iran has easy capability to nuclear weapons, one of those 'nukes in months' states thanks to Trump's (bare minimum) sheer stupidity. It also has missiles that can yeet those nukes into various countries.

There are millions of good reasons that this is going to be ignored.
Unfortunately for Iran BMD Destroyers and Cruisers exist. Iran does not have Nuke Missile spam. Any nukes they have would be swatted out of the sky. Having nukes does not mean you have a lot of nukes. You can be a nuclear power with just 1 or 2 nukes. Not much of a deterrant if a very capable counter exists.
 

BF110C4

Well-known member
Unfortunately for Iran BMD Destroyers and Cruisers exist. Iran does not have Nuke Missile spam. Any nukes they have would be swatted out of the sky. Having nukes does not mean you have a lot of nukes. You can be a nuclear power with just 1 or 2 nukes. Not much of a deterrant if a very capable counter exists.
Still deterrent enough to cover for small acts of piracy. No one wants to discover the hard way if the Iranians would rather shoot a missile against the nearest unprotected city of your regional allies instead of a battlegroup covered by Aegis systems.

That said any excuse to increase sanctions again will only hurt Iran more than the pityful acts of naval chicanery will help it. Especially if they bother modern nations enough for them to do something about those nukes and any military installation unlucky enough to be a bother to Operation BabylonX.
 

bintananth

behind a desk
Still deterrent enough to cover for small acts of piracy.
Technically, what Iran is doing isn't piracy. We just call it that because we don't like Iran's government.

All shipping in the Persian Gulf and Gulf of Oman is in someone's territorial waters or EEZ and a country does have the right to stop, search, and inspect vessels within their EEZ to check for compliance with local laws and regulations.

Things can get dicey when the EEZ is Iran's and they're exercising said right because they're going to find a violation and use it as a pretext to seize the vessel. "Bothering by the book" if you will.

 

Knowledgeispower

Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
Thing is EEZs in the gulf are often overlapping so in many cases whose waters they're in would be murky
 

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