Middle East Running Iranian threat news and discussion thread

Terthna

Professional Lurker
I would like to point out--because it's becoming something like my internet...little thing that sets me off (there's a word/phrase for this, but I'm having a brain-fart)...But while presenting the Shah as a puppet is fair, pointing to Mossadegh as 'the legitimate government' isn't really accurate and misses a whole raftload of complexity and nuance solely to present a Ron Paul narrative of how America fucked-over Iran when the actual historical events are a lot more complicated. Mossadegh was doing his best impression of the typical MidEast dictator by ruling via decree, cancelling elections once his side had 'won', dismissing parliament entirely when even the loaded, pro-Mossadegh reps he did allow began to take issue with his rule, rejecting a dismissal the Shah had constitutional right to present to him, and appealing to a (non-sympathetic, as it happened) military to enforce and ensure his rule thereafter.

And the 'overthrow' attempted by the US and UK in the form of Operations Ajax and Boot actually failed, and the conspirators got either rounded up by Mossadegh's government, went into hiding, or fled from the country*. The successful 'revolution' starred one prominent face from the prior attempts (General Zahedi, who the Shah made PM in Mossadegh's place, and who's gone into hiding after the first attempt failed), but came after a Tudeh party rally in Tehran inspired counter-demonstration (potentially organized by Zahedi and others) and things descended into such a cluster that the Army (which, as mentioned, was unsympathetic to Mossadegh and had a lot of pro-Shah forces in it--and definitely a lot of anti-communist officers, since much of it's leadership was drawn from the old aristocratic families of Iran) stepped in and performed the "coup" of Mossadegh in favor of Zahedi.

*Kermit Roosevelt Jr., the CIA head of station and the 'man with the plan' for Ajax, is even alleged to have been in the process of doing this because he and the CIA felt Iran was a lost cause at that point that was going to drop into the Soviet sphere--when sudden divine intervention lucked-out a win from the jaws of defeat...And, unfortunately, made the 'success' of the operation a model for CIA activities in other parts of the globe like South America.

*breath*
*breath*
*breath*
Uh...Yeah...So...That's my rant about that. Sorry. It's just one of those things that bothers me.
Everything after your first comma I'd agree with though. :p
So what you're saying is that the US and UK tried to overthrow an Iranian dictator, but failed, and then one leftover element of their efforts got involved in another attempt, that succeed on its own? I guess I need to do more research about the history of Iran, because I'm not sure if that's better or worse than what I'd thought happened. Certainly makes the US and UK look even less competent.
 

prinCZess

Warrior, Writer, Performer, Perv
So what you're saying is that the US and UK tried to overthrow an Iranian dictator, but failed, and then one leftover element of their efforts got involved in another attempt, that succeed on its own? I guess I need to do more research about the history of Iran, because I'm not sure if that's better or worse than what I'd thought happened. Certainly makes the US and UK look even less competent.
Oh yeah. Ajax and Boot were shitshow, cowboy operations from start to finish banking on 'we're America! Everyone loves us!' and 'We're Britain, we can't be outsmarted by a bunch of colonials!' that might as well have been headed by Kermit the frog as opposed to Kermit Roosevelt for how much wacky shenaniganry occurred during them. It could honestly make a good parody-movie of clandestine operations.
 

Comrade Clod

Gay Space Communist
Oh yeah. Ajax and Boot were shitshow, cowboy operations from start to finish banking on 'we're America! Everyone loves us!' and 'We're Britain, we can't be outsmarted by a bunch of colonials!' that might as well have been headed by Kermit the frog as opposed to Kermit Roosevelt for how much wacky shenaniganry occurred during them. It could honestly make a good parody-movie of clandestine operations.

For a parody their efforts against Castro are better. (because exploding seashells)
 
The Secret History of the Push to Strike Iran - NYT article

GoldRanger

May the power protect you
Founder

A long read, seems to be very interesting, although I haven't had the chance to go through it fully myself.

Here's a random paragraph:
As a way to calm Israeli concern about the Obama administration’s commitment to keeping Iran from gaining a nuclear weapon, Panetta had even taken the extraordinary step of bringing Barak into his Pentagon office and showing him a highly classified video. In a desert in the American Southwest, the Pentagon had constructed an exact replica of the Fordow facility, and the video showed a test of the 30,000-pound massive ordnance penetrator, a bunker-busting weapon the Air Force had designed to penetrate the most hardened of underground defenses. The bomb destroyed the mock-up in the desert. Barak was impressed.

This shit is better than Game of Thrones.

I'll be sure to read this article from top to bottom the moment I have the time.

EDIT: From skimming through it further - this is a treasure trove. Seriously READ THIS, especially if you want to understand the behind the scenes processes going on in Israel and the US vis a vis a strike against Iran. That said, keep in mind to remain critical of the claims presented, especially from anonymous sources.
 
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PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
Can you explain?

I understand enough thanks to Isis, Iran got involved in Syria which cost them both money and lives.
Iranian involvement came before formation of ISIL. Basically, when Syrian economy collapsed due to civil war, Iran picked up the tab for public service sallary, keeping government afloat. They also financed formation of many progovernment militias, brought in IRGC ''trainers'', Hazare and Iraqi volunteers, influenced Hesbollah to join in the fighting and when ISIL took Mosul they increased their involvement.
There was constant contest between Iran and rebel supporters (Saudis, Quattar, Turkey, USA...) whose support will be decisive. At first it looked like rebels will eventually win, but then with Iran's help government turned strategic situation around, breaking siege of Aleppo, retaking Al-Qusayr and securing Damascus, but then the rebel supporters flooded the countr with ATGMs and even more foreign voulunteers than before, tilting strategic balance in favor of rebels until the Russian intervention.
 

Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
Yeah, Iran, through Hezbollah, various militias, IRGC involvement and so on has reinforced the government forces with willing trained combatants, unlike the bulk of Syrian conscript army, including during the time that was most desperate for Assad.
More willing not only because they were paid, but because they were Shia, while most of Syria's population is Sunni, making them conscripts of questionable loyalty for Assad, which is why there was so much side switching early on in the war.
 

Comrade Clod

Gay Space Communist
Iran's meddling in the SCW is complex. On the one hand, their propping up the government probably helped keep ISIL from overruning it when it started too go a conquering, on the other hand Assad is well, Assad.
 

Arch Dornan

Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
Iran's meddling in the SCW is complex. On the one hand, their propping up the government probably helped keep ISIL from overruning it when it started too go a conquering, on the other hand Assad is well, Assad.
Didn't he used to be a dentist?
 

Lanmandragon

Well-known member
Iran's meddling in the SCW is complex. On the one hand, their propping up the government probably helped keep ISIL from overruning it when it started too go a conquering, on the other hand Assad is well, Assad.
Yeah there never really was a good choice in Syria.
 

GoldRanger

May the power protect you
Founder
An interesting research paper on Hezbollah's propaganda arm.

 

Arch Dornan

Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
An interesting research paper on Hezbollah's propaganda arm.

On propoganda was there a Palestinian Mickey mouse costumed actor?
 

Arch Dornan

Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
Yes, Hamas children programm. where along with other costumed characters it urged children to become suicide bombers. All part and parcel of the Pallywood.
That is quite horrifying.

I remember parodies of mickey mouse but the idea of him speaking in a squeeky voice to instruct children to by a suicide bomber is something I didn't expect.

It's not the same as Hezbollah propaganda. Hezbollah owns a large Lebanese news network, they have a veneer of legitimacy Hamas can only dream of.
After reading the article I can see they're slowly taking over Lebanon by imposing their rule on people that align more with their religion.

Reminds me of the Mexican cartels who have near control of parts of Mexico but I don't know if they have their own news network.
 

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