Netflix Post-Roman Mob Whining About African Queen Cleopatra Series

[Circle of Willis]

I hope no one here is a historian otherwise you may want to sit down and hope you don't get a heart attack from this travesty that butchers history.

I made it pretty far into the video, up to one of the ''''''historians''''''' (there really aren't enough air quotes for this word in the context of this Netflix turd) quite literally saying 'I remember my grandmother saying to me, "I don't care what they tell you in school, Cleopatra is black"'. (At about the 1:30 mark)

Just...roflmao. Says it all, really, about everything surrounding this production. The Afrocentrism, the willful ignorance, the grievance-mongering, the spite and contempt for actual scholarship and wypipo alike. Truly, while you don't have to and shouldn't watch this dumpster fire at all, there is nothing it can possibly offer you that would be any more novel or entertaining than that line.

 

[DarthOne]

More iconic...? Sure...iconic in the sense that her reign was a fucking comedy. I mean, seducing Caesar was a good idea, in theory. In practice, Cleopatra undermined him seeing as it contributed to the Roman perception of Caesar's royal ambitions. Then there was the bright idea (re: sarcasm) of allying with Marcus Antonius, who was a known drunk and bankrupt (even before he was an adult). And when it all fell apart, she actually honestly thought she could twist the great Augustus Caesar around her finger?

Moron. And she was a coward in the end, committing suicide and abandoning her own people and the land she claimed to love to avoid being paraded through Rome. Even in the blackest days of WWII, neither King George or the Showa Emperor abandoned their people and country. Hell, even the Showa Emperor personally took on the shame of surrendering his empire.

Cleopatra, a great ruler? Don't make me laugh.

…I’m gonna drop that in their comments section.

 

[Jormungandr]

Dunno about that, but I do know that the traditional Iranian religion, Zoroastrianism, is still alive and well today.



Them or the Israelis (or the Amis), but that's neither here nor there.



Cleopatra gained romantic appeal thanks to Shakespeare. That, and she figured in the legacy of Augustus Caesar, as the last opposition to his conquest of Egypt, thus completing the Roman conquest of the entire Mediterranean Basin.



No argument there. I mean, the Middle Kingdom did expand south into Nubia, but it wasn't until the New Kingdom and the 18th Dynasty in general that Egypt became a power in its own right. Thutmose III's campaigns into the Levant made Egypt a factor in the millennia-long power struggles of the Fertile Crescent, and would remain one for centuries to come.

The fact that Egypt was strong enough, albeit in a reduced state, to survive the Bronze Age Collapse and the Sea Peoples was amazing in itself.

So many civilizations and empires crumbled during that chaotic time, with survivors often joining the Sea Peoples themselves for survival. Egypt was one of the few that managed to stay above the tide, so-to-speak.

 

[Zyobot]

Moron. And she was a coward in the end, committing suicide and abandoning her own people and the land she claimed to love to avoid being paraded through Rome. Even in the blackest days of WWII, neither King George or the Showa Emperor abandoned their people and country. Hell, even the Showa Emperor personally took on the shame of surrendering his empire.

Cleopatra, a great ruler? Don't make me laugh.

Well, since you mention World War II, you know who else committed suicide and abandoned their people to their fate after bringing it all to ruin?

 

[DarthOne]

Well, since you mention World War II, you know who else committed suicide and abandoned their people to their fate after bringing it all to ruin?

If only that had been the worse thing he’d done. Would have saved every one a lot of trouble if he’d died a few decades earlier.

Seriously the number of times where he almost died, even putting aside assassination attempts, is ridiculous.

 

[Zyobot]

If only that had been the worse thing he’d done. Would have saved every one a lot of trouble if he’d died a few decades earlier.

Seriously the number of times where he almost died, even putting aside assassination attempts, is ridiculous.

Yeah, I hear that.

Not to derail further, but I honestly wouldn’t blame Julius Caesar if he complained about how that “Mad German who brought his nation to ruin!” survived both the First World War and at least 44 confirmed assassination attempts largely unscathed — only to take his own life after cowering in a bunker for a few months. Caesar may have rolled quite a few sixes throughout his life, but to my knowledge, he hadn’t had the Devil’s luck up until the very end quite like Hitler did.

 

[DarthOne]

Yeah, I hear that.

Not to derail further, but I honestly wouldn’t blame Julius Caesar if he complained about how that “Mad German who brought his nation to ruin!” survived both the First World War and at least 44 confirmed assassination attempts largely unscathed — only to take his own life after cowering in a bunker for a few months. Caesar may have rolled quite a few sixes throughout his life, but to my knowledge, he hadn’t had the Devil’s luck up until the very end quite like Hitler did.

Hitler was Austrian.

Which given how it was the Austrian Hungarian empire that got Germany into the mess it was in when Hitler came to power, I wonder if there was some sort of Austrian curse from the austrian prussian war of 1866.

 

[LordDemiurge]

from this travesty that butchers history.

The comments on the video are at-least entertaining.

I loved the part of this documentary when Cleopatra rode Drogon and lead the Dothraki to battle against Thanos' army, sent chills to my spine… so historically accurate

The set and costume design is also....meh. Though this is par for the course with Netflix, a lot of their costumes and sets really feel like costumes and sets, instead of actually feeling like clothes worn by people.

Though I'd give it a D+ if only because its better comparison to everything.

how obsessed they are with racebending "White" characters into being Black, specifically. Never Hispanic, or Asian.

The real frustrating part, for me at-least, is the constant flip flopping on the topic.

On one hand you'll get so much shit about authentic representation and how its literally cultural genocide to not have a character played by their exact ethnicity.

Except for this, then suddenly 'it's just a movie' and the actors don't count. Though in this case its more the directors being factually wrong and peddling pseudo-history.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

At this point it's become fetishistic, how obsessed they are with racebending "White" characters into being Black, specifically. Never Hispanic, or Asian.

Not a fetish, a humiliation ritual.
The people behind this hate black people as much as your usual racist does, from their perspective putting excessive amounts of black people is to infuriate and humiliate the average joe.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Augustus wouldn't blink twice before pulling something like that. In this case, though, I don't think he did. He'd already successfully depicted Kleopatra as a perfidious, oriental influence-- the fact that Marcus Antonius was cavorting with her was "proof" that he was no longer a true Roman and no longer represented Rome's interests.

It certainly didn't help that Augustus had managed to filch Marcus Antonius' will from the Vestal Virgins. A huge scandal that would have been, and a massive gamble for Augustus that paid off. No thanks to Marcus Antonius being so stupid as to outright will all of Rome's eastern provinces as the inheritance of Cleopatra's children. Even if the Senate had been willing to overlook that, the Roman people wouldn't have. As it was, the Senate was all too happy - well, more enraged at Marcus Antonius - to give a formal seal of approval to Augustus' decision to go to war against Marcus Antonius and Cleopatra.

Augustus also received public sympathy since his sister Octavia had been married to Marcus Antonius, and even had children with him. And Marcus Antonius divorced her and abandoned their children to marry Cleopatra. Unsurprisingly, more than a few senators and plenty of Roman citizens were sympathetic to an elder brother and uncle heading out to avenge his family's honor against Marcus Antonius' treachery.

Augustus also had Caesarion -- Caesar's actual flesh-and-blood son with Kleopatra -- murdered to remove him as a potential threat. He didn't feel the need to hide that, and considering that the average Roman would care about a million times less about Kleopatra herself, it stands to reason that Augustus wouldn't have to stage her suicide. Indeed, he could have marched through Rome with her head on a spike, if he'd wanted to, and he'd no doubt have been met with cheers.

Hmm...as I recall Augustus was actually undecided about that, and it wasn't until one of his advisors reminded him that 'two Caesars is not good' that he gave the order to kill Caesarion. And even then, the boy might have managed to escape had his tutor not sold him out, which offended Augustus that he ordered the tutor killed as well.

 

[Husky_Khan]

I hope no one here is a historian otherwise you may want to sit down and hope you don't get a heart attack from this travesty that butchers history.

They could've just Googled DuckDuckGo'd African Queens during the classical period and probably found the account of that Queen of Kush/Ancient Nubia who fended off a Roman Invasion like a generation after Cleopatra and made a docuseries about someone so unknown I can't even be arsed to see if I'm correct on the details.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Bruhhhhhh she had one eye and a bunch of dead loved ones. Most tragic backstory ever.

Amanirenas, The Queen Who Pushed Back Roman Invasion

One ruler stood and managed to do what others couldn't. She was the queen of the Kingdom of Kush named Amanirenas, and she stood and did not allow her kingdom to be taken and controlled by the Romans.

sofrep.com

Amanirenas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

No Docuseries for you!

 

[Yinko]

They could've just Googled DuckDuckGo'd African Queens during the classical period and probably found the account of that Queen of Kush/Ancient Nubia who fended off a Roman Invasion like a generation after Cleopatra and made a docuseries about someone so unknown I can't even be arsed to see if I'm correct on the details.

They are literally just being lazy. That is all there is too it.
Was looking for something about the other North African queen of note, and there was a section in Lindy Beige's rant about how Cleopatra may have been ginger, or at least red haired. Chalk up yet another instance of red haired white people being black-washed.

Spoiler

 

[Husky_Khan]

Don't tell these people about Dido Founding Carthage. They'll appropriate her too. Next thing you know Black Hannibal is breaking down the Gates of Rome on he/hims War Elephant and we get some historian talking about how Black Carthage invented Maritime trade and Hanno the Navigator discovered the South America two millenia prior to Portugal.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Don't tell these people about Dido Founding Carthage. They'll appropriate her too. Next thing you know Black Hannibal is breaking down the Gates of Rome on he/hims War Elephant and we get some historian talking about how Black Carthage invented Maritime trade and Hanno the Navigator discovered the South America two millenia prior to Portugal.

Pretty sure the Carthaginians were Phoeniceans, so they were proto-Syrians and less North African.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Pretty sure the Carthaginians were Phoeniceans, so they were proto-Syrians and less North African.

One of my best friends is Lebanese and never shuts up about how Awesomely Phoenician/Cathaginian they are. Which, let me be clear, is perfectly fine and awesome for her to do.

Gotta get it out there before her entire identity is appropriated by activist African-Americans for a Netflix series.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

One of my best friends is Lebanese and never shuts up about how Awesomely Phoenician/Cathaginian they are. Which, let me be clear, is perfectly fine and awesome for her to do.

Gotta get it out there before her entire identity is appropriated by activist African-Americans for a Netflix series.

Hey, Carthage was awesome. The Ancient Greeks simply refused to challenge Carthage's naval might (and considering how full of themselves the Greeks were, that's saying something), and while Rome did, that it took three wars over a century's worth of time to bring Carthage down speaks to its power. They were literally Rome's only real rival in the Mediterranean.

 

[Terthna]

Not a fetish, a humiliation ritual.
The people behind this hate black people as much as your usual racist does, from their perspective putting excessive amounts of black people is to infuriate and humiliate the average joe.

That's probably part of it, but I don't think them fetishizing Black people precludes them from also being racists; anymore than hiring a domanatrix means you can't be a misogynist.

Hey, Carthage was awesome. The Ancient Greeks simply refused to challenge Carthage's naval might (and considering how full of themselves the Greeks were, that's saying something), and while Rome did, that it took three wars over a century's worth of time to bring Carthage down speaks to its power. They were literally Rome's only real rival in the Mediterranean.

They'd have obliterated Rome several times over too, if they hadn't been complete morons and not consistently treated their armies like crap.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

They'd have obliterated Rome several times over too, if they hadn't been complete morons and not consistently treated their armies like crap.

Not to mention insisting on hiring mercenaries instead of training citizen-soldiers. Sure, the former tend to be more experienced than the latter, but once you burn through them, they're not as easy to replace. That was always Rome's biggest advantage during the Punic Wars. Whenever they lost an army, they could just raise a new one from their vast population, while Carthage struggled to find replacements for their lost troops.

 

[Terthna]

Not to mention insisting on hiring mercenaries instead of training citizen-soldiers. Sure, the former tend to be more experienced than the latter, but once you burn through them, they're not as easy to replace. That was always Rome's biggest advantage during the Punic Wars. Whenever they lost an army, they could just raise a new one from their vast population, while Carthage struggled to find replacements for their lost troops.

Especially after that one time where they decided that they didn't need to pay their mercenaries, only to have to hire more mercenaries to fight their previous mercenaries, who did not react well to being stiffed.