Netflix Post-Roman Mob Whining About African Queen Cleopatra Series

[King Arts]

I hope no one here is a historian otherwise you may want to sit down and hope you don't get a heart attack from this travesty that butchers history.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

I hope no one here is a historian otherwise you may want to sit down and hope you don't get a heart attack from this travesty that butchers history.

More iconic...? Sure...iconic in the sense that her reign was a fucking comedy. I mean, seducing Caesar was a good idea, in theory. In practice, Cleopatra undermined him seeing as it contributed to the Roman perception of Caesar's royal ambitions. Then there was the bright idea (re: sarcasm) of allying with Marcus Antonius, who was a known drunk and bankrupt (even before he was an adult). And when it all fell apart, she actually honestly thought she could twist the great Augustus Caesar around her finger?

Moron. And she was a coward in the end, committing suicide and abandoning her own people and the land she claimed to love to avoid being paraded through Rome. Even in the blackest days of WWII, neither King George or the Showa Emperor abandoned their people and country. Hell, even the Showa Emperor personally took on the shame of surrendering his empire.

Cleopatra, a great ruler? Don't make me laugh.

 

[Yinko]

I hope no one here is a historian otherwise you may want to sit down and hope you don't get a heart attack from this travesty that butchers history.

I made it, literally, 18 seconds.

"Hey, you know this thing that was notable for being weird? Yeah, that was everywhere." Not even going to mention the warrior BS.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Ego, power trip, whatever. They want more power. They want to feel powerful.

They read books written by R&P people or people who want to feel R&P and feed their egos, and get ideas. Things like 15-minute cities, the Great Reset, and more. They get dazzled by presentations with amazing CGI. They believe the Marxist derived thought that their overpaid, smug college teachers (who desperately wish for a technocracy so they can be R&P) taught them and was only reinforced by their growing even more disconnected from the everyman. Their smoothbrains engage and they spend money trying out various ideas to feel more R&P.

They want to feel superior, they want to control us. They want to exploit us. Everything is in service to that.

They aren't any smarter or more intelligent than the rest of us. But they have a clear idea of what they want: To be Rich and Powerful. When you've already achieved that, how do you feel like that again? Recapture that feeling of your first million? Of the first time you managed your employees correctly and succeeded? How much better was it the first time you fucked someone over in the Rat Race, and how do you capture that feeling again?

By making people live in windowless dorms and be forced to live in a cell smaller than a prisoner's and to go out into the yard so everyone can see you. By making us live in cities where we might as well be chickens laying eggs. By erasing gender, and tradition, and ethnicity, and religion so that we're all bland and samey and can be whatever our masters want us to be when they want us to be that. By destroying our families with policies and programs designed to encourage single motherhood and State Fatherhood, so we have nothing anchoring us or to gather around except what the R&P want.

It's not complicated, it's not some grand original thought. It's 'Everybody Wants to Rule the World.' Except they already functionally do. And like an addict they keep going for the higher high. Everything flows from that. Some of their ideas have wildly succeeded before, even.

And then, like most addicts, they do crazy shit for the next high.

The big problem is that there are Poor & Weak who believe that they can become R&P off of it, and then others who believe that this crazy shit makes sense or makes life easier or better. So it becomes self-sustaining. And even more pervasive. Some people are increasingly desperate, and they cling to the things that make them feel like they're part of an in-group, while disdaining the things the R&P have spent decades on getting people to disdain.

Well I will admit to at least some extent it has worked on me. My empathy for people and even nature has been running dry for quite a while now. If this is the best humans have to offer. Heck if this is the best nature has to offer. Just this same old story repeated on and on again till the end of time. To heck with it all. You focus on yours and I will mine,

 

[Culsu]

More iconic...? Sure...iconic in the sense that her reign was a fucking comedy. I mean, seducing Caesar was a good idea, in theory. In practice, Cleopatra undermined him seeing as it contributed to the Roman perception of Caesar's royal ambitions. Then there was the bright idea (re: sarcasm) of allying with Marcus Antonius, who was a known drunk and bankrupt (even before he was an adult). And when it all fell apart, she actually honestly thought she could twist the great Augustus Caesar around her finger?

Moron. And she was a coward in the end, committing suicide and abandoning her own people and the land she claimed to love to avoid being paraded through Rome. Even in the blackest days of WWII, neither King George or the Showa Emperor abandoned their people and country. Hell, even the Showa Emperor personally took on the shame of surrendering his empire.

Cleopatra, a great ruler? Don't make me laugh.

Yeah, looking at that parody of a trailer, she also wasn't a warrior - or African. She was Greek.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Yeah, looking at that parody of a trailer, she also wasn't a warrior - or African. She was Greek.

Genetically, Egyptians then and now aren't purely African. They've always been a mix, because surprise, surprise, Egypt is a crossroads for travel and trade.

In fact, Ancient Egyptians looked down on Africans, and had more in common with their rivals to the east like Babylon and Assyria than to the other denizens of their home continent.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Genetically, Egyptians then and now aren't purely African. They've always been a mix, because surprise, surprise, Egypt is a crossroads for travel and trade.

In fact, Ancient Egyptians looked down on Africans, and had more in common with their rivals to the east like Babylon and Assyria than to the other denizens of their home continent.

If anything, the Egyptians (the core ethnic group) would have looked more Mediterranean than African, perhaps not even too dissimilar from modern Arabs. They'd have had the olive skin common to that part of the world.

I believe they were on good terms with the Kingdom of Kush, which was an Aethiope kingdom, but that was the most interaction with sub-Saharan Africa they had.

And Cleopatra was Greek for fuck's sake. Netflix probably don't even know who the Ptolomies are!

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

If anything, the Egyptians (the core ethnic group) would have looked more Mediterranean than African, perhaps not even too dissimilar from modern Arabs. They'd have had the olive skin common to that part of the world.

And they do today, as they did thousands of years ago, based on genetic studies done on mummified bodies.

I believe they were on good terms with the Kingdom of Kush, which was an Aethiope kingdom, but that was the most interaction with sub-Saharan Africa they had.

True, but they also aggressively and repeatedly invaded Nubia.

And Cleopatra was Greek for fuck's sake. Netflix probably don't even know who the Ptolomies are!

History has white bias, you know how the party line goes. Seriously, if they wanted genuinely-strong feminine rulers in this time period, they should have just looked further back, to Queen Hatshepsut, or to Assyria under Queen Semiramis. Or if you prefer her original, Akkadian name (what with the Greeks' bad habit of renaming famous historical figures in their language), Queen Shammuramat.

 

[Yinko]

True, but they also aggressively and repeatedly invaded Nubia.

At the time they also had good ties to, now extinct, Libyan kingdoms and Carthage (I'm thinking pre-Rome here). There really aren't a lot of routes to get past the Sahara, so most people living on the north Coast of Africa don't have anything to do with those who live south. The Nile and the Red Sea are some of the only good ones, but that doesn't make it easy. Even the Nile, before the present day there were impassible rapids (called the cataracts of the Nile) up further than about Aswan (where the main granite quarry was, six of them between Egypt and Sudan. There's also a line of oasis's in Algeria, but those don't allow for the mass migration of peoples.

The Moors often get depicted as being black, but they were descended from Berber peoples, who look North-African and have had ties going back to Egypt.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

And they do today, as they did thousands of years ago, based on genetic studies done on mummified bodies.

Ah yes, I forgot that they are still around these days. Likely with more than a few drops of Arabic blood now, but still here. Even bits and bobs of their language has survived in Coptic. Really brings home just how difficult it is to completely kill off a people and their culture.

History has white bias, you know how the party line goes. Seriously, if they wanted genuinely-strong feminine rulers in this time period, they should have just looked further back, to Queen Hatshepsut, or to Assyria under Queen Semiramis. Or if you prefer her original, Akkadian name (what with the Greeks' bad habit of renaming famous historical figures in their language), Queen Shammuramat.

Yes, but that would mean they’d have to know more about the ancient world than a few choice tweets. Hatshepsut is the ur example of the badass warrior queen and it’s quite comical how often she is ignored by the progressives.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Yup. My college history professor even compared the Egyptians to the Iranians, and how both cultures have a certain...intellectual superiority complex, over the Arabs. The Arabs might have given them Islam and the Arabic alphabet among others, but at the end of the day, the Arabs are upstarts. The Iranians were peers of Rome and Greece, and Egypt is older than them all.

What’s the reckoning there’s one or two quiet Iranian and Egyptian academics who resent the Arabs for Islam as well?

Isn’t it that even the Turks don’t like the Arabs very much? As I understand it the only people disliked more in the Middle East than them are the Pakistanis.

Oh, but she was even more badass than that. She was a warrior-queen, yes, but that's a footnote on her credentials. Hatshepsut was first and foremost a diplomat, negotiating and building favorable and profitable trading relationships with Egypt's neighbors, and prudently invested the vast profits of trade into infrastructural works. There's a reason Thutmose III tried to erase her from the historical record, and that's because while he might have been a proto-Alexander the Great, Hatshepsut was ultimately more visible at home with all the temples, roads, bridges, granaries, etc. built during her reign..

Ah, that rare combination of great soldier and statesman. It burns to know that she is remembered less than fucking Cleopatra. Egypt would not have fallen under Hatshepsut’s watch.

Then again, she’s a queen of the 18th dynasty so it’s to be expected. Those magnificent bastards knocked it out of the park.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

What’s the reckoning there’s one or two quiet Iranian and Egyptian academics who resent the Arabs for Islam as well?

Dunno about that, but I do know that the traditional Iranian religion, Zoroastrianism, is still alive and well today.

Isn’t it that even the Turks don’t like the Arabs very much? As I understand it the only people disliked more in the Middle East than them are the Pakistanis.

Them or the Israelis (or the Amis), but that's neither here nor there.

Ah, that rare combination of great soldier and statesman. It burns to know that she is remembered less than fucking Cleopatra. Egypt would not have fallen under Hatshepsut’s watch.

Cleopatra gained romantic appeal thanks to Shakespeare. That, and she figured in the legacy of Augustus Caesar, as the last opposition to his conquest of Egypt, thus completing the Roman conquest of the entire Mediterranean Basin.

Then again, she’s a queen of the 18th dynasty so it’s to be expected. Those magnificent bastards knocked it out of the park.

No argument there. I mean, the Middle Kingdom did expand south into Nubia, but it wasn't until the New Kingdom and the 18th Dynasty in general that Egypt became a power in its own right. Thutmose III's campaigns into the Levant made Egypt a factor in the millennia-long power struggles of the Fertile Crescent, and would remain one for centuries to come.

 

[Typhonis]

Cleopatra gained romantic appeal thanks to Shakespeare. That, and she figured in the legacy of Augustus Caesar, as the last opposition to his conquest of Egypt, thus completing the Roman conquest of the entire Mediterranean Basin.

One theory has it that Cleopatra didn't commit suicide. She was instead murdered on Agustus's orders and it was covered up.

After all all we know is what was written about a century after she died. What we do know is Agustus controlled the guards and had her imprisoned in a location he himself controlled. So, what are the odds he had the 'troublesome woman' put down to cement his rule?

IE Someone in power controls the media and law enforcement in a city. He has a woman causing him problems. Would her 'suicide' be investigated that deeply?

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

One theory has it that Cleopatra didn't commit suicide. She was instead murdered on Agustus's orders and it was covered up.

After all all we know is what was written about a century after she died. What we do know is Agustus controlled the guards and had her imprisoned in a location he himself controlled. So, what are the odds he had the 'troublesome woman' put down to cement his rule?

IE Someone in power controls the media and law enforcement in a city. He has a woman causing him problems. Would her 'suicide' be investigated that deeply?

*shrugs*

At the risk of being called a callous and uncaring bitch, that's pretty much par the course for politics right up until the modern era. I can hardly blame Augustus for doing what he needed to do to secure his power, and he certainly used his power much better than Cleopatra used hers.

 

[King Arts]

Dunno about that, but I do know that the traditional Iranian religion, Zoroastrianism, is still alive and well today.

I’d heisitate to call it well it’s a minority that doesn’t have converts and has been chased out of its homeland. A shame because Zoroastrians should be given respect for being monotheistic without having been given prophets like Abraham.

 

[Terthna]

I hope no one here is a historian otherwise you may want to sit down and hope you don't get a heart attack from this travesty that butchers history.

At this point it's become fetishistic, how obsessed they are with racebending "White" characters into being Black, specifically. Never Hispanic, or Asian.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

At this point it's become fetishistic, how obsessed they are with racebending "White" characters into being Black, specifically. Never Hispanic, or Asian.

That's because in their world view, Hispanics are white, and - speaking from personal experience here - Asians are a model minority. Apparently, we reinforce racism by preferring to study hard and work hard, you know, actually earn advancement instead of just whining about how shitty life is and expecting society to bend over backwards and hand over everything they demand on a silver platter.

Something about conforming to the white man's standards and expectations instead of fighting for our rights.

*shrugs*

I don't know. It doesn't really make much sense to me. All I know is, life and the world doesn't owe me anything. If I want or even need something, I'm going to have to get it the hard way. Just like everybody else.

EDIT: I imagine quite a few of them are still salty over that whole 'Koreans with guns' business from a while back. You know, Korean shopkeepers breaking out rifles and other heavy artillery when black rioters started wrecking the neighborhood instead of letting the rioters run wild. Never mind the Koreans had every right to defend their property. Now that is what the Second Amendment is all about. It's not about simply owning guns, it's about owning guns so when some salty assholes decide they can fuck up your house, your business, and your property, not to mention you or your family, you can offer them a choice: fuck off, or eat hot lead.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

I remember watching a video about this sort of thing a while back (can’t remember where) and the profoundly important thing it spelt out are the Marxian and socialist roots of “woke.” It differs from the other variants as its concern is the redistribution of power, wealth, and land, along the lines of race, sexual preference, and gender to achieve social justice.

When you see it through that lens, “diversity’s” true purpose becomes clear. They are redistributing the fiction itself to achieve social justice.

Quite insane, but they wouldn’t be what they are otherwise.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

*shrugs*

At the risk of being called a callous and uncaring bitch, that's pretty much par the course for politics right up until the modern era. I can hardly blame Augustus for doing what he needed to do to secure his power, and he certainly used his power much better than Cleopatra used hers.

hence why It's always good to keep your sword sharp/powder dry. edit: someone is always out to get you.

 

[Skallagrim]

One theory has it that Cleopatra didn't commit suicide. She was instead murdered on Agustus's orders and it was covered up.

After all all we know is what was written about a century after she died. What we do know is Agustus controlled the guards and had her imprisoned in a location he himself controlled. So, what are the odds he had the 'troublesome woman' put down to cement his rule?

IE Someone in power controls the media and law enforcement in a city. He has a woman causing him problems. Would her 'suicide' be investigated that deeply?

Augustus wouldn't blink twice before pulling something like that. In this case, though, I don't think he did. He'd already successfully depicted Kleopatra as a perfidious, oriental influence-- the fact that Marcus Antonius was cavorting with her was "proof" that he was no longer a true Roman and no longer represented Rome's interests.

Augustus also had Caesarion -- Caesar's actual flesh-and-blood son with Kleopatra -- murdered to remove him as a potential threat. He didn't feel the need to hide that, and considering that the average Roman would care about a million times less about Kleopatra herself, it stands to reason that Augustus wouldn't have to stage her suicide. Indeed, he could have marched through Rome with her head on a spike, if he'd wanted to, and he'd no doubt have been met with cheers.