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Meme Thread for Both Posting and Discussing Memes

Skitzyfrenic

Well-known member
I think we are talking about the same Founders, as he did mention Washington.

Yes, and Curtis and Lee who weren't Founders. But not Adams (Bostonian) or Franklin (Philadelphian) There's some overlap, but I'm pretty sure that your Founders (Presumably of the United States of America and not of just Virginia since you brought up Washington in particular) aren't the same as his First Families of Virginia.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Yes, and Curtis and Lee who weren't Founders. But not Adams (Bostonian) or Franklin (Philadelphian) There's some overlap, but I'm pretty sure that your Founders (Presumably of the United States of America and not of just Virginia since you brought up Washington in particular) aren't the same as his First Families of Virginia.
Ok, fair, overlap but not a huge amount.

Still had no idea that being a descendant of Pochantas was a big thing in that era.
 

S'task

Renegade Philosopher
Administrator
Staff Member
Founder
So the First Families of Virginia are a regional thing specific to Virginia. They were in the colonial and early Republic, the landed elite / gentry of Virginia and modeled somewhat on English Aristocracy. Because of this some were members of the Founding Fathers and Framers as they were the political and social elite of Virginia, though not all.

That being said...
Lee who weren't Founders.
What?

The Lees were absolutely Founders! Two of them signed the Declaration of Independence! Robert E. Lee, whom you seem to be thinking of, was just one of the many members of the Lee family of Virginia who was from a later period and eclipsed other members in fame, but said family originated much earlier in time and literally has a town dating to the colonial period in Virginia named for them!

The Lees not Founders... Bless Your Heart...

Now, none of the Custis family appears to have been Founders, but that's because the man who would have been of age at the time to be one had passed away, and his widow married some Virginia planter named George. So yeah... I guess the Custis family TECHNICALLY aren't formally Founders...
 

Yinko

Well-known member
I especially like the source link he posted.
PWigKOH.jpeg
 

Skitzyfrenic

Well-known member
The Lees were absolutely Founders!

Sure. I didn't do my due diligence and make sure the Lee mentioned in my 'quick check to make sure things are right' were the same.

But they also were exactly 0 parts of my formative education on the Founders. Truly, they were impactful founders. You know, other than helping in making sure the new Nation's landowners could keep their slaves. Virignia, you know, the state with the largest slave population that also benefitted the most from slavery.

Thanks for Poisoning the Well for generations, Founders Lee and Technically not a Founder Curtis.

Bless Your Heart...

I know what this means, it hasn't been a secret in centuries that it's used to 'say a nice thing that actually means fuck you.' Go fuck yourself. /s
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
Truly, they were impactful founders. You know, other than helping in making sure the new Nation's landowners could keep their slaves. Virignia, you know, the state with the largest slave population that also benefitted the most from slavery.

Thanks for Poisoning the Well for generations, Founders Lee and Technically not a Founder Curtis.

Jefferson, a Virginian, put the condemnation of the slave trade in the Declaration of Independence. Richard Lee, a Virginian, is the one who brought the resolution to declare independence in the first place.

South Carolina and Georgia wanted the passage condemning the slave trade removed, not Virginia, and certainly not anyone by name of Lee.

The existence of slave plantation in America wasn't even a matter of debate. The discussion was purely about the future importation of new slaves.

Additionally, Virginia was never the state with the largest slave population. Admittedly, for a brief moment in the 1790s, it was in second plae behind South Carolina.



What kind of bullshit narrative did they feed you, in this "formative education on the Founders" that you received? I'm not even American and I know this stuff. Even my lefty teachers weren't as deranged as to depict things that falsely. Hell, even the distinctly left-leaning musical 1776 (catchy tunes, though!) correctly depicts the Virginians as being a driving force behind the Declaration, and also correctly shows exclusively the Deep South making a big fuss over the inclusion of the condemnation of the slave trade. (Which was, again, put in by a Virginian, at his own initiative, and thus became part of a resolution that was being proposed by another Virginian... named Lee.)
 

Skitzyfrenic

Well-known member
Nah, it's just been fifteen? years since that formative education.

I couldn't name any of the NH Founding Fathers, and I got my education in NH at a public school there.

There was also a Lee on the Mayflower, so I assumed that the Lees mentioned in my quick check were from Mass. My bad.

I still find it very hard to believe that the state with the largest slave population, subsequently with the most wealth built off the back of said slaves, didn't want to keep slaves. Wouldn't it be a trip for them to backroom deal with places like Georgia in an attempt to get what they want without exposing themselves politically. Just, you know, loom in the background of that debate where they would benefit if they kept slavery.

Cause the Colonies really needed Virginia onside given how wealthy it was. Especially when 'rejoin the Empire' was technically on the table for VA.

And yes, I know that at least Robert E Lee condemed slavery.


Anyways, thanks for the re-education.

The First Families of Virginia still aren't the Founding Fathers of the USA, even if they've got overlap.

Edit: Unit 3 African American Slavery in the Colonial Era, 1619-1775 - New Jersey State Library.

To quote: 'In fact, throughout the colonial period, Virginia had the largest slave population, followed by Maryland.'

Search terms 'Which of the 13 colonies had the most slaves?'

Same article says Carloina, later South Carolina had the highest percentage/proportion of slaves.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Jefferson, a Virginian, put the condemnation of the slave trade in the Declaration of Independence. Richard Lee, a Virginian, is the one who brought the resolution to declare independence in the first place.

South Carolina and Georgia wanted the passage condemning the slave trade removed, not Virginia, and certainly not anyone by name of Lee.

The existence of slave plantation in America wasn't even a matter of debate. The discussion was purely about the future importation of new slaves.

Additionally, Virginia was never the state with the largest slave population. Admittedly, for a brief moment in the 1790s, it was in second plae behind South Carolina.



What kind of bullshit narrative did they feed you, in this "formative education on the Founders" that you received? I'm not even American and I know this stuff. Even my lefty teachers weren't as deranged as to depict things that falsely. Hell, even the distinctly left-leaning musical 1776 (catchy tunes, though!) correctly depicts the Virginians as being a driving force behind the Declaration, and also correctly shows exclusively the Deep South making a big fuss over the inclusion of the condemnation of the slave trade. (Which was, again, put in by a Virginian, at his own initiative, and thus became part of a resolution that was being proposed by another Virginian... named Lee.)
The foundation if GA was to avoid slavery as much as possible. Oglethorpe did not want slavery as the land was made for thise debtor to start anew
 
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Skitzyfrenic

Well-known member
Alright.

I'm wrong about Virginia. It's a wonderful place. Always has been, always will be. Eden on Earth.

Produces amazing people.

I'm sorry that I forgot how much they contributed to the formation of the USA.

I'm apparently undereducated.

My apologies for wasting your time.
 

S'task

Renegade Philosopher
Administrator
Staff Member
Founder
I still find it very hard to believe that the state with the largest slave population, subsequently with the most wealth built off the back of said slaves, didn't want to keep slaves. Wouldn't it be a trip for them to backroom deal with places like Georgia in an attempt to get what they want without exposing themselves politically. Just, you know, loom in the background of that debate where they would benefit if they kept slavery.
I understand it's hard to believe, but in the late 18th century, among many of the Virginia elite slavery was seen as a "necessary Evil", one they had inherited and couldn't just do away with without causing more harm to both the slaves and themselves than continuing slavery would do*, and they expected that over the next few decades or so that slavery would die out as both uneconomical and immoral, based on the then present economic and ideological trends.

For instance, George Mason, one of the Virginia Founders and grandfather of the Bill of Rights had this to say regarding slavery even as a slave owner himself:
[Slavery is] that slow Poison, which is daily contaminating the Minds & Morals of our People. Every Gentlemen here is born a petty Tyrant. Practiced in Acts of Despotism & Cruelty, we become callous to the Dictates of Humanity, & all the finer feelings of the Soul. Taught to regard a part of our own Species in the most abject & contemptible Degree below us, we lose that Idea of the Dignity of Man, which the Hand of Nature had implanted in us, for great & useful purposes. Habituated from our Infancy to trample upon the Rights of Human Nature, every generous, every liberal Sentiment, if not extinguished, is enfeebled in our Minds. And in such an infernal School are to be educated our future Legislators & Rulers. The Laws of impartial Providence may even by such Means as these, avenge upon our Posterity the Injury done a set of Wretches, whom our Injustice hath debased almost to a Level with the Brute Creation. These Remarks may be thought Foreign to the design of the annexed Extracts – They were extorted by a kind of irresistible, perhaps an Enthusiastick Impulse; and the author of them conscious of his own good Intentions, cares not whom they please or offend.

And this is but one of the many, MANY condemnations of slavery Mason wrote. Mason is an often forgotten Founder, but he was one of the most intellectual influential, and his influence is most keenly remembered in the US Bill of Rights, which in many respects was directly modeled on the Virginia Bill of Rights which he wrote (and is still in effect to this day as part of the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Virginia).

George Washington has a more complex relationship to slavery than Mason, his views not quite so firebrand as his neighbor's (Mason's plantation was just down the Potomac from Washington's), but as he grew older he grew more and more disapproving of the institution and hoped to see it abolished, though he felt it had to be abolished through proper legal measures.

It should also be noted that the first prohibition of the importation of slaves in the English speaking world was passed not in England, nor in New England, but in Virginia... in 1777. Proposed by and signed into law by then Governor of Virginia, Thomas Jefferson.

To say Virginia has a complicated history with slavery is an understatement, and while many of the Virginia Founders and Framers were anti-slavery in effect, by the middle 19th century many of those attitudes had changed due to John Calhoun and his ideals. In fact, Calhoun's ideals are still very much believed and taught today, though in a twisted way. You might in fact recognize some of them, the idea that the US economically was entirely built by slaves even going back to the colonial period, that the US owed its growth and wealth exclusively to slavery, and that all whites were served by the continuing enslavement of minority populations... it's just he thought these were good things while his intellectual inheritors like the 1619 project believe it to be evil.

-------------------
* Bear in mind that just freeing the slaves would then put a large amount of people with no property, no housing, and some with limited skills into the population. These newly freed slaves would have limited economic options, limited places to go, and no seed money to even head to the frontier and set up their own farmsteads. No government in America could afford to pay to provide that seed money to people, not any of the State governments nor the Federal. You might immediately think to liquidate the estates that owned them... but to whom would those be sold? Further, remember that government taking in the US required just compensation, so if you force the plantation owners to both liberate their slaves AND liquidate their property they have to legally be compensated for their loss and again... who pays... who could AFFORD to pay? There was no economically feasible way to immediately liberate all slaves held in the US, this was even shown after the Civil War when it was done it literally destroyed the economy of the US South for generations (in fact, some Southern states did not economically recover to the point they were at before the Civil War until the last few DECADES). Hence why the Founders and Framers hoped for gradual dying out of slavery and perhaps some plan for gradual emancipation that minimized the economic damage while maximizing the chance for the slaves to build their own lives. None of them foresaw the rise of the Textile Industrial Revolution, the invention of the Cotton Gin, and the emergence of King Cotton that would turn slavery from a slowly waning institution into the core of a Commodity driven economic boom that makes the modern oil cartels look small in comparison (no, seriously, cotton in it's heyday was a LARGER, more valuable, and larger percent of the WORLD economy than oil is or has been).
 

ATP

Well-known member
I remember when Ethiopia was known for extreme famine. I did not know back then, that it was a Communist country at the time.
It still happened in King times - but,he at least tried to prevent that.Commies do not care,as long as they and their army have food.
P.S Easy method to save Ethiopia - let their King polish exiled army after 1945,they and their children would crush cubans when they come to made putch.
Stronger Ethiopia would send help to Poland after 1990,and maybe we would deal with our commies,too.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
Meme TL;DR for most of the autistic screeching pro-Ukraine that I made recently. :ROFLMAO:

Here's a slightly less overly intricate take. And guess what? It works both ways.


Version 1:

Meme01.png



Version 2:

Meme02.png



And yes, that's what every thread relating to Ukraine and/or Russia looks like, to anyone who isn't you two inveterate bitchfighting addicts. :ROFLMAO: Really-- the two of you should get a room already.
 

S'task

Renegade Philosopher
Administrator
Staff Member
Founder
It still happened in King times
Before the latter 20th century famine was common across the entire world though, it wasn't until the advent of the modern industrial Agricultural farming methods in the later half of the 20th century that we really made famines not a thing of production issues, but of distribution/governmental issues.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Here's a slightly less overly intricate take. And guess what? It works both ways.


Version 1:

Meme01.png



Version 2:

Meme02.png



And yes, that's what every thread relating to Ukraine and/or Russia looks like, to anyone who isn't you two inveterate bitchfighting addicts. :ROFLMAO: Really-- the two of you should get a room already.
Make one with Oleg and Sophie from 2 broke girls next.
You can also add, libtard/Biden enjoyer, hypocrite, autistic crybaby, spiteful little gnat, MIC dick sucker, neocuck and Polish irredentist nutjob/inferiority complex sufferer to the stuff. :D
And yeah, I did propose a Slav fighting thread to be made and to be pay per view, but sadly my suggestion was not taken into account, just think how much money out autistic screeching would have made the forum.
We'd probably be able to buy SB. :sneaky:
And yes, the more I have to ineract with Marduk the more I feel like starting to think that that Marshal Rokossovsky and Lavrentii Beria did nothing wrong, and that the Russian empire should have used the same tactics in regards to Poland as the ottomans used against us. :ROFLMAO:
:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

Note for the perpetually butthurt and too dumb to get a fucking joke, this is what is called gallows or dark humor.Furthermore, there is no rule against bring edgy and if he or the other Sliva Usrana Debilzovtsi doesn't like what I have to say they can just block me and stop responding to me with more autistic and pointless reeing.
 
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