Meme Thread for Both Posting and Discussing Memes

No doubt, although if the American public were willing and able to put Ron Paul in then that would at least mean more people were awake and aware of the problem whereas now the people are only awake to their partisan causes.... I give Trump credit for trying to fix things, which hasn't happened in a long time, and means quite a lot. But many times his diagnosis was just plain wrong and strengthened those he wanted to fight, which is why he couldn't make headway. Make no mistake, I am not in doubt that if Ron Paul had reached the office he would have been martyred by it.

Probably, especially since mounting troubles—and decades of increasing distrust in the institutions, going at least as far back as Nixon and Watergate, I'd think—means opposition to the status quo was bound to go from a matter of if to a matter of when at some point. Plus, even if Trump were more level-headed and had DeSantis's verbal finesse (for lack of a better word), it's not like one president can uproot decades of entrenched elites who've co-opted Wall Street, the media, the universities, the armed forces, and everywhere else, no matter how competent or well-spoken they are.

In any case, I just hope my grandkids inherit a decent world to live in, even if the birthing pains (as always) involve a whole lot of blood, sweat, and tears shed by generations who will never get to sit in the shade of the tree they planted and nursed so diligently. :(
 
To be clear, I don't trust a word he said after the law was passed. He has a history of inventing history, given his authorship of the Pink Swastika.
The Pink Swastika is noted to be exceptionally well-documented with solid sources.


In fact, if you look at just the first chapter, the bibliography and references are five pages long. But why don't you go ahead and show us exactly what in the book you can prove to be invented history?

For example, according to this report from ABC, he'd support the bill if it dropped the death penalty portion:

Which, again, I believe is just CYA behavior, but, still shows he's in favor of laws that criminalize such behavior. He also consistently ends up having meeting with lawmakers.
Ah, you don't trust a word he says except when a mainstream media hit-piece is smearing him, then his not-even-quoted words must be complete gospel.

Then in his Letter to the Russian People, he publicly recommends that they "Third, criminalize the public advocacy of homosexuality." He goes on to say that he doesn't like criminalizing what people do in private, but bluntly, I don't believe him. The Pink Swastika either shows him to be hopelessly dumb (and he's quite competent at what he does, so I doubt it) or a liar. Notably, this contradicts what he said in the ABC interview.

What was his next sentence after the one you quoted?

My philosophy is to leave homosexuals alone if they keep their lifestyle private, and not to force them into therapy if they don’t want it.

I believe you have a great career ahead of you in the agriculture industry, specifically picking cherries. You believe him in one sentence and then don't believe the next depending on whether or not the sentence is useful to vilify him.
 
Probably, especially since mounting troubles—and decades of increasing distrust in the institutions, going at least as far back as Nixon and Watergate, I'd think—means opposition to the status quo was bound to go from a matter of if to a matter of when at some point. Plus, even if Trump were more level-headed and had DeSantis's verbal finesse (for lack of a better word), it's not like one president can uproot decades of entrenched elites who've co-opted Wall Street, the media, the universities, the armed forces, and everywhere else, no matter how competent or well-spoken they are.

In any case, I just hope my grandkids inherit a decent world to live in, even if the birthing pains (as always) involve a whole lot of blood, sweat, and tears shed by generations who will never get to sit in the shade of the tree they planted and nursed so diligently. :(
That is all anyone can ever hope for, and of course make preparations. Teach self reliance, skills, and habits that they can use to insulate themselves whatever might come. This book might help, with that, even if the government is rotten there are ways to carve out some freedom to keep the torch burning.

Edit: the link isn't showing but the book is How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World: A Handbook for Personal Liberty
 
The Pink Swastika is noted to be exceptionally well-documented with solid sources.

In fact, if you look at just the first chapter, the bibliography and references are five pages long. But why don't you go ahead and show us exactly what in the book you can prove to be invented history?
Please see this for a thorough lambasting of the book. Is it a perfect one? No. Does it poke a crapton of holes so that it can't even be called a net? Yes.

Also, since when does having a bibliography imply honesty?

Ah, you don't trust a word he says except when a mainstream media hit-piece is smearing him, then his not-even-quoted words must be complete gospel.
What was his next sentence after the one you quoted?

My philosophy is to leave homosexuals alone if they keep their lifestyle private, and not to force them into therapy if they don’t want it.

I believe you have a great career ahead of you in the agriculture industry, specifically picking cherries. You believe him in one sentence and then don't believe the next depending on whether or not the sentence is useful to vilify him.
Trusting a liar (see Pink Swastika) when they say something that exposes them is fairly standard. In fact, it's an exception to the general hearsay rules in trials, it's so standard. It's called a statement against interest. Look, I too would like better evidence than the missing ABC quote. But it's an old story, his chief website DefendTheFamily no longer exists, and so this is the best info I have right now, and we know he has a habit of lying because he wrote a book full of lies.
 
Please see this for a thorough lambasting of the book. Is it a perfect one? No. Does it poke a crapton of holes so that it can't even be called a net? Yes.
Ah great, the ol' "I can't be bothered to prove my point so read this 500 page yawner and do all my work for me" defense. And holy cow, could you have picked something more annoying? The notes and the original all in the same font, terribly formatted, no spaces between paragraphs, with barely any indicator where the text leaves off and the criticism begins? Is this just an excuse to waste everybody else's time?

Alright let's take a look.

The Pink Swastika belongs to the Crypto History genre. It
claims to reveal connections of people and groups explaining the
course of events that have been neglected by or even covered up
by establishment historians.

...

The Pink Swastika has to include so many
different "links" in some of its "chains" that the reader who
does not soon lose interest is sure to be confused.

So basically we're going with the "I'll just claim everything's a conspiracy theory with no evidence to back it up and load it down with ad hominem fallacies" mode of criticism. How convincing.

The author presumably refers to the ancient Greek custom of
pederasty. That did not involve "young boys." Those involved
were teenagers up to the age of 18 years. If anything, they were
"old" boys.
There's a lot of this quibbling about grammar and exact meanings in this criticism, here we see them arguing that because the oldest boys getting railed might be 18, it's unfair to say young boys were getting railed. But that's not a reasonable argument, not every Greek youth was going to be at the very oldest age bracket in the first place, and further dedicating verbiage to quibbling about "Young boys" vs. "Old boys" is missing the forest for the trees, it's still boys getting railed.

Greek pederasty was entirely a heterosexual phenomenon
What the actual fuck? This is what you consider viable? Your counter is that older men having sex with young boys is heterosexual?

The scientific data most
impressing the APA were gathered by Dr. Evelyn Hooker and other
psychologists having nothing to do with Kinsey. The major
influence on the APA, however, was not data but its experience
in meeting actual homosexuals, including a large group of
homosexual psychiatrists. These new data and these people simply
did not fit the classification of "sick," indicating something
was not quite right in the APA's old classification, so the
organization changed it.
Ah, whitewashing. Sure, the fact that to this day the scale is called the Kinsey Scale surely indicates that the APA wasn't heavily influenced by Kinsey. Note that contrasted to The Pink Swastika's deeply impressive references for everything, this rebuttal has zero evidence for all its claims about who had what influence.

It should be noted that Mr. Abrams was Canadian before he
moved to Jerusalem. As of 1996, his E-mail address in Jerusalem
was no longer valid. It was said that the service which provided
his access to Internet closed his account after complaints that
he was posting inappropriate material to various Usenet news
groups.

...

It would be interesting to have a librarian try to locate
this Guide Magazine-- not to say the publication didn't exist,
but its status is certainly questionable.

...

The dubious nature of this reference was noted above.
Quoting so extensively from such unrepresentative statements
without having any corroborating statements from responsible
spokesmen simply emphasizes how weak the case of the authors of
The Pink Swastika is.
Translation: These people were Cancelled, ergo we get to pretend they never existed and their evidence doesn't count. There's a huge amount of this kind of reasoning.

Heiden's work is tinged with disparaging attitudes toward
homosexuality
Saying anything negative about gays is proof it's untrue in the eyes of this critic.

This is false information about Ernst Roehm. Note that in
his "Acknowledgments," the Pink Swastika author lists Konrad
Heiden as a great historian. The time frame of this depiction of
Roehm would be 1920, "two years after the humiliating
surrender." Yet it was not until 1924 that Roehm first realized
that he had any homosexual feelings, so at this time he was
hardly "a homosexual with a taste for young boys."
A bizarre assumption that a guy wasn't gay before he came out of the closet... in the 1920s.

This is a fabrication, and totally false, as Heiden's quote
on Roehm proves. He was not aware of any homosexual tendencies
in himself at this point. Quite the contrary, he was a trusted
member of the German Army, which had heterosexuality as a high
ideal. (The Pink Swastika author later gives quotes from the
highest German Army officers complaining about the homosexuality
of Roehm and elements of the SA.) Roehm would hardly have gone
to a "gay bar." First, he had no interest in it, and second, he
would not have risked being caught by the army, even as a
heterosexual, going into a "gay" bar.
Their standing table was literally called Stammtisch 175, a then-famous homosexuality reference.

I could keep slogging through this painfully disorganized mess of lies but why? It's caught out in an extremely provable lie already, though honestly I could probably have stopped at "Gay sex between men and young boys is a heterosexual act." You've got nothing.

Also, since when does having a bibliography imply honesty?

Trusting a liar (see Pink Swastika) when they say something that exposes them is fairly standard. In fact, it's an exception to the general hearsay rules in trials, it's so standard. It's called a statement against interest. Look, I too would like better evidence than the missing ABC quote. But it's an old story, his chief website DefendTheFamily no longer exists, and so this is the best info I have right now, and we know he has a habit of lying because he wrote a book full of lies.
You have yet to prove he's a liar, or that there are any lies in his book. Your citations on the other hand, yeah they're chock full of easily obvious lies. Projecting much?
 
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Why is that shocking to anyone. The interconnection in various parts of the Mediterranean throughout the ancient era is well documented.
It comes as a rude shock to the Hoteps/Afrocentrists who insist that ancient Egyptians were actually black (this is also where the 'we wuz kangz' meme came from), resulting in moments like this:

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(Rami Malek is of course a Coptic Egyptian - they're Egypt's remaining indigenes and the closest existing people today to the ancient Egyptians)
 
Ah great, the ol' "I can't be bothered to prove my point so read this 500 page yawner and do all my work for me" defense. And holy cow, could you have picked something more annoying? The notes and the original all in the same font, terribly formatted, no spaces between paragraphs, with barely any indicator where the text leaves off and the criticism begins? Is this just an excuse to waste everybody else's time?
I'm wasting people's time? Your the one arguing that the Pink Swastika is a legitimate source of historical record and not a ball of lies, when it spends its time arguing that Hitler was gay, along with nearly every other major Nazi party member. No, I'm not going to spend a ton of time working on that. I gave a comprehensive (in that it covers a crap ton) but flawed work poking holes in it. I pointed out also that it wasn't perfect, so shocker: it's not perfect, thanks for pointing out the obvious. But what it is, is good enough, because there are so many problems, I'm not going to go into detail on them all.

For a few quick notes, then I'm done on this topic.

First, a few relevant quotes by the annotated Pink Swastika (the italicized part is the Pink Swastika, the rest is the annotation)

In this one, Lively is trying to claim that Rudolf Hess was a homosexual:
The Thule Society member who would rise the highest in Nazi
circles, however, was Rudolf Hess. Hess, a homosexual who
was one of Hitler's closest friends, eventually became the Deputy
Fuehrer of the Nazi Party. In addition to his involvement with the
Thule Society (Toland: 124), Hess belonged to yet another off-
shoot of the Theosophical cult. It was an organization called the
Anthroposophical Society, formed in 1912 by Rudolf Steiner.
Steiner was a former leader of the German Theosophical Society
who split with the group following their "discovery" of the new
"messiah." Hess was also a firm believer in astrology (Howe: 152).


*** {start comment 62-2}
Hess was married and many will remember his son's efforts
for years after the end of World War II to get him released from
Spandau prison. The "Toland" work seems missing from the Pink
Swastika bibliography, and thus can't be checked.
While the author neglected to include Toland in the
bibliography, Waite (1977) refers to Toland's 1976 Adolf Hitler.
Waite says "Another unreliable 'memoir' has caused further
misconceptions about Hitler's life. John Toland used this
spurious source for his biography... a 250 page type-script
entitled "My Brother-in-Law Adolf" and written about 1940 by
Brigid Dowling Hitler." Waite calls most of her "memoir" an
invention.
William Shirer, the journalist whose "The Rise and Fall of
the Third Reich" has become a popular classic, is no friend of
homosexuality and doesn't hesitate to denigrate Ernst Roehm for
it. It's hard to believe that Shirer would not have mentioned
homosexuality in the cases of Hess and Eckart if he had had any
reliable indication of it. He refers to Eckart as one who had
"...led ...the bohemian vagrant's life, become a drunkard, taken
to morphine and, according to { journalist Konrad} Heiden, been
confined to a mental institution..." but he never charges him
with homosexuality.
Other responsible authors also omit these wide-ranging
charges of homosexuality, saying at most that people in some
cases made jokes or spread rumors, as about Hess.
The Howe reference is another of the Pink Swastika author's
famous fabrications. The only mention of Hess on page 152 is
"Hofweber was a close personal friend of Rudolf Hess. According
to Herr Goerner, Hofweber regularly sent copies of Krafft's
bulletin to Hess." Now Krafft was a man interested in astrology
who published an "Economic Bulletin" which Howe says contained
"a surprising mixture of straightforward economic and political
information, cosmic speculation, and articles on topics that
happened to be of interest to him�Any casual reader would
probably not have been immediately aware that the document in
his hands had come from an astrological stable." So Hess might
have had no idea that the things mentioned by Howe on page 152
and preceding pages had anything to do with astrology. That's a
far cry from the claim that Howe said Hess was a "firm believer"
in astrology.
In other places in Howe's book there is mention of rumors
that circulated at the time that Hess might have had some
interest in astrology, but they're unreliable, and Howe says
some of the material has to be taken "with a pinch of salt."
There's nothing anywhere in Howe that would support the claim
that Howe stated Hess was a "firm believer" in astrology.

In this one, they point out one of Lively's many purposeful misquotes:
Another area of history we must explore in order to under-
stand the Nazis is the origin of fascism and national socialist ide-
ology. Once again we find a high correlation between homosexu-
ality and the development of a mode of thinking which we iden-
tify with Nazism. In his 1964 work, Varieties of Fascism, histo-
rian Eugen Weber traced "the pattern of the planned totalitarian
state back to Plato's Republic and the Fascist mentality to the
turbulent, unscrupulous Calicles who appears in another Platonic
dialogue, Gorgias" (Weber: 11).

*** {start comment 65-1}
Weber didn't "trace" fascism back to Plato. He's trying to
show that the origins of National Socialism can't be so easily
traced. He mentions Spengler's attempt to trace the modern
Socialist state to ideas of Frederick the Great, and F. L.
Schumann's idea that National Socialism came from German
Romantics such as Friedrich List and Ferdinand Lassalle. Weber
is saying if you're going to try to blame them, "It is equally
possible to trace the pattern of the planned totalitarian
society back to Plato's Republic and the Fascist mentality to
the turbulent, unscrupulous Callicles who appears in another
Platonic dialogue, Gorgias." Weber is writing with irony, to
show the absurdity of these attempts. Either the Pink Swastika
author misunderstands Weber, or he is deliberately distorting
what he says to try to pin totalitarianism and fascism on the
"homosexual" Greeks.
*** {end comment 65-1}
Shit like this is why I don't value the citations in the Pink Swastika. They make up some. They mess around with other ones.

Ah, whitewashing. Sure, the fact that to this day the scale is called the Kinsey Scale surely indicates that the APA wasn't heavily influenced by Kinsey. Note that contrasted to The Pink Swastika's deeply impressive references for everything, this rebuttal has zero evidence for all its claims about who had what influence.
It was affected by the Kinsey, but the largest impact wasn't. His initial work was criticized for focusing on people in prison, but replications of his study not using prisoners gave it credence.

Translation: These people were Cancelled, ergo we get to pretend they never existed and their evidence doesn't count. There's a huge amount of this kind of reasoning.
Translation: we can't verify this because their magazine died, like countless other ones did, and we can no longer contact the person.

Ah, whitewashing. Sure, the fact that to this day the scale is called the Kinsey Scale surely indicates that the APA wasn't heavily influenced by Kinsey. Note that contrasted to The Pink Swastika's deeply impressive references for everything, this rebuttal has zero evidence for all its claims about who had what influence.
*** {start comment 154-2}
One suspects that the Pink Swastika authors have relied for
their psychological information on Dr. Charles Socarides, whose
help they acknowledge (see the acknowledgements at the front of
the book). If so, they should have had the courtesy to include a
note saying he was their source instead of trying to blame Adam
for what they say. One person, Allen Young, is mentioned as
referring to a faction of psychiatrists as "war criminals." What
is covered up is the existence of another group of psychiatrists
who supported the gays in their effort to change the APA's
wording on homosexuality. A leader of the faction favoring the
status quo was Socarides, and it is Socarides who demanded the
mentioned referendum. The change of wording taking homosexuality
off the list of disorders went through the normal APA procedure.
The Socarides referendum was abnormal. Why do the Pink Swastika
authors cover up the role of the Socarides faction in all this?
Enrique Rueda is not an "historian" and doesn't claim to be
one. The credit in his book states, "Enrique Rueda is Director
of the Catholic Center at the Free Congress Research and
Education Foundation {a right-wing group}. A native of Cuba, he
was imprisoned by the Communists during the Bay of Pigs
invasion. He holds a Master of Arts degree in Political Science
from Fordham University, and advanced degrees in Divinity and
Theology from St. Joseph's Seminary."
The myth that the APA succumbed to pressure and caved in to
demands by homosexuals out of fear is debunked in Ronald Bayer's
book, Homosexuality and American Psychiatry: The Politics of
Diagnosis (Basic Books 1981). The demonstrations were
unfortunately needed to get the psychiatric establishment to
address the issue, but the APA moved through its normal channels
in evaluating new research by psychological researchers such as
Evelyn Hooker, whose pioneering work had shown that contrary to
the belief widely held by the psychiatric establishment, their
tests could not tell homosexuals apart from heterosexuals,
indicating there were no basic differences except for sexuality.
The process is best characterized by Bayer's account of the
"conversion" of Robert Spitzer of the New York State Psychiatric
Institute, who was a member of the APA's Committee on
Nomenclature, the group that had the primary responsibility for
deciding the issue. The effort began (page 117) with
presentations to the Nomenclature Committee by a number of
prominent psychological investigators such as Seymour Halleck, a
psychiatrist widely acknowledged as a critic of the abuse of
psychiatric authority, Wardell Pomeroy, a colleague of Dr.
Alfred Kinsey, and Alan Bell of the Institute for Sex Research
at Indiana University. A presentation to the Nomenclature
Committee on February 8, 1973, included "an impressive array of
citations which indicated that the classification of
homosexuality was inconsistent with a scientific perspective."
(p118) After reviewing the research that questioned the accepted
position on homosexuality, a presentation was made of the
consequences of the current classification as a disorder,
showing the way in which it was being used to discriminate
unreasonably against gays. Finally, "the Nomenclature Committee
was pressed to consider the psychological havoc that resulted
from the labeling of the homosexual preference as pathological."
(p119)
"Nothing impressed the members of the Committee on
Nomenclature more than the sober and professional manner in
which the homosexual case was presented to them. After several
years of impassioned denunciations and disruptions, here, at
last, was a statement that could be assimilated, analyzed, and
discussed in a scientific context." (A report is available in
the New York Times of February 9.)
The notorious homophobic psychoanalysts Irving Bieber and
Charles Socarides, whose practices centered on their alleged
ability to cure homosexuality, immediately organized an attempt
to stop any possible declassification of homosexuality as a
disorder and rallied opposition among psychoanalysts. While the
psychoanalysts worked to stop any change, support for the change
was beginning to appear among local APA branches. In March 1973
the Northern New England District Branch of the APA became the
first to endorse deletion of homosexuality from the list of
disorders. Soon after APA's Area Council I, which included all
of New England as well as Ontario and Quebec called for the
change (page 123).
Robert Spitzer at first had been against dropping
homosexuality from the list of disorders. "Certainly he was not
at first a supporter of the effort to delete homosexuality from
the nomenclature. Indeed, when paired with Paul Wilson, a
psychiatrist from Washington, D.C., to draft a discussion paper
for the committee, Spitzer could not accept Wilson's version
because of its support for declassification. What is remarkable
is that because of his sense of mission he was, despite his
unformed views, able to dominate both the pace and the direction
of the committee's work. In fact it was Spitzer's own conceptual
struggle with the issue of homosexuality that framed the
committee's considerations." (Page 124)
"By the time of the May 1973 APA convention in Honolulu,
Spitzer's views had moved quite far. The justification for
including homosexuality per se among the psychiatric disorders
had become increasingly inconsistent with his understanding of
the appropriate focus of a nosological system. His attention had
been drawn to critical analyses of standard psychoanalytic works
like Bieber's and to empirical studies indicating that
homosexuals were quite capable of satisfactory adjustments to
the demands of everyday life. Contact with gay activists made it
clear that many homosexuals were fully satisfied with their
sexual orientations. It began to seem to him the inclusion of
homosexuality in DSM-II constituted an unjustifiable extension
of the concept of 'psychiatric disorder.': {DSM-II is the
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Psychiatric Disorders, its
second issue. The dispute was about removing homosexuality from
that book.}(page 124)
The account goes on to relate that a gay activist took
Spitzer to a meeting at the convention of gay psychiatrists.
When the psychiatrists noticed Spitzer's presence, they were
outraged, for they had to fear that if he would betray their gay
status to their institutions they would lose their jobs and face
repercussions in their families and elsewhere. Many insisted
that Spitzer leave but in the end he was allowed to stay. "The
occasion not only succeeded in substantiating Spitzer's belief
that being homosexual had little to do with one's capacity to
function at a high level, but perhaps more importantly provided
an emotional jolt that moved him to prepare, within a month, a
proposal for the deletion of homosexuality from the
nomenclature."(page 126)
Thereafter the change worked its way through the normal
route of APA committees until it won final approval. The only
further "political" action on the part of gays was a letter
written in support of the change to the APA's Council of
Research and Development. Bayer says (p 131) "Written with
extraordinary attentiveness to the sensibilities and
professional prerogatives of those who would be making the
crucial decision, it sought in almost deferential terms to avoid
the impression that pressure was being brought to bear upon
them." The Council unanimously approved the change as written by
Spitzer. Next the Assembly of District Branches approved it by
an overwhelming majority. This was especially heartening because
the Assembly tends to reflect a clinical rather than an academic
perspective in psychiatry, and resistance to the deletion had
been anticipated.(page 134) After passage by the Reference
Committee, the deletion was finally approved by the board of
trustees, who first heard the objections of Bieber, Socarides
and Robert McDevitt. Some members of the board were reluctant to
make the change, feeling privately that homosexuality was indeed
a disorder, but nevertheless acknowledging that the evidence
required to substantiate that position was lacking. After a
first vote for passage of nine in favor, four against, and two
abstaining, a change to make the wording more tentative resulted
in thirteen votes for deletion, with two abstentions.
A movement to reverse the board's action immediately
started, and the Socarides group demanded a referendum of the
membership on it. That was quite an extraordinary thing. "That a
decision presented as being based upon the scientific
examination of the standards that should apply to the
classification of psychiatric disorders would be subject to
ratification in a democratic vote of America's psychiatrists
astonished many observers. It suggested that psychiatry's claim
that it constituted a clinical science like other branches of
medicine was at best a self-deception."(page 142)
The APA leadership gave in to Socarides's demand for the
referendum, but also worked to defend its decision and encourage
the membership to support the change. Here the final political
involvement of the gay community occurred. It succeeded in
getting all the candidates for the APA presidency to sign
letters urging the membership to approve the change. The
National Gay Task Force also underwrote the full cost of the
mailing, about $2,500. If there is any criticism due on this
issue, it is because "a decision was made not to indicate on the
letter that it was written, at least in part, by the Gay Task
Force, nor to reveal that its distribution was funded by
contributions the Task Force had raised. Indeed, the letter gave
every indication of having been conceived and mailed by those
who signed it."(146)
"Since a public solicitation of financial support had been
made, though presumably to those sympathetic to the gay cause,
it is not surprising that information regarding the role of the
NGTF surfaced quickly."(p 146) The Socarides group raised
further objections, but the referendum result was that 58% of
the 10,000 psychiatrists who participated supported the change,
while 37% voted against it, the remainder abstaining or not
voting.
That is the story of the APA decision as Bayer tells it.
It's been related here at such length because of the reckless
charges that continue to be made that it was a purely political
decision, not a scientific one, and that it was made in response
to threats of violence. Nothing could be further from the truth.
*** {end comment 154-2}
Wow, are those citations? Shock.

What the actual fuck? This is what you consider viable? Your counter is that older men having sex with young boys is heterosexual?
Pederastry as practiced in greece? Very different from what is now considered gay. Basically, it was all about the older guy fucking the teenager as if he was a girl, while the man also had a wife he willingly slept with, and kids. It was a weird fucked up social tradition. I don't call guys who fuck in prison gay either. They are probably straights who wanted to fuck.

So I get where the commentators are coming from. I think it's dumb, and it qualifies as gay or at least bi, but I get where they are coming from.

You have yet to prove he's a liar, or that there are any lies in his book. Your citations on the other hand, yeah they're chock full of easily obvious lies. Projecting much?
There's a difference between being wrong and lying. Purposely selectively quoting? A lie. Just having a stupid opinion? Not a lie, just dumb. And the fact that these dumbasses pointed out lies is good enough for me. You step up to the plate with a crazy thesis like: 'Hitler was gay, the nazis were all gay', you better not be selectively quoting or pulling other shit.

If you'd like to continue to argue that many of Hitler's higher ups were gay (as that is the thesis of the book), I think we should start a new thread, though.
 
No it is not.

Darwin's evolutionary theory still holds, it has simply been added to over the years as more details about different species were influenced by their surroundings and natural events.

Plus, the discovery of DNA added a bunch of new wrinkles to simpler old theories.

It still do not explain how reptiles turned into birds,only small changes from one one similar species to another.
Not mention,how life was created - becouse current theory is simply not possible.
 

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