Meme Thread for Both Posting and Discussing Memes

[Bacle]

Sports teams work with a pretty strict top down structure as well. Like in football, QBs call out the plays and the rest of the team falls in line, and coaches come in above them. Management and owners above that.

If you don't listen, you probably aren't going to be on the team for very long.

Yes, but calling out a QB for a stupid play won't end your career like calling out a stupid officer will in the military, if you aren't above them in rank. That's the big difference between a 'team' and 'command structure'.

Also, pro athletes can just walk away if management gets stupid or corrupt; sure it might cost them a few bucks, but its far from the Dis/Other-than-honorable Discharge the same action would net in the military.

Plus, players have far more ability to hold their employers accountable for fuck ups or mistreatment than the military does.

If we arnt a team them we should not work as one.
Let's hope all those infantry solders you just got killed, thier families forgive you for them not working together as a team.

Oh there are plenty if teams in the military. More then you realize. Because that is how you make sure people survive and find new ways to keep soldiers alive

The idea that the military is a team, and not a machine that cannot hold it's controllers accountable and often acts closer to semi-paid temporary indentured servitude, is pure PR cope and message massaging to keep gullible recruits from seeing through the facade before they sign a contract.

A 'team' is where you can actually hold the people above you, all the way to the CEO/owner, accountable for fuck ups. Even a retail shift job is more a 'team' situation than the military, because employees can always just walk away if the leadership/owner becomes corrupt.

 

[Aldarion]

And how much do they get paid for that 'teamwork'...oh, that's right, not much, certainly not nearly what a pro-athelte makes.

And no, the military isn't a team; "Team" as a term implies some ability to actually have constructive, whole group discussions as equals, not subordinates and commanders.

The military is a machine, not a team, with cogs that take orders from the top, regardless of their Constitutionality or the legitimacy of the person at the top, and do what the cog above them commands.

Militaries that work in that way usually do not fare well. A good military is precisely a team: one where everyone is able to place their individual interests aside for the sake of the whole, yet still able to think with their heads. If you look at vast majority of history of warfare, "cogs that take orders from the top" would not actually achieve that much, because majority of wars were not set piece battles. Ability to think was required, but so was the ability to subordinate oneself to something greater.

 

[Bacle]

Militaries that work in that way usually do not fare well. A good military is precisely a team: one where everyone is able to place their individual interests aside for the sake of the whole, yet still able to think with their heads. If you look at vast majority of history of warfare, "cogs that take orders from the top" would not actually achieve that much, because majority of wars were not set piece battles. Ability to think was required, but so was the ability to subordinate oneself to something greater.

Yet we see that actually functional 'teams' have accountability up and down, not just one way.

Militaries are machines for achieving border defense and/or projecting power, and for a lot of history pressganging was standard practice in a lot of militaries, so it wasn't even about choice for a lot of folks, unless they were wealthy or connected.

Trying to rebrand the military as a 'team' is some of that lingering post 9/11 PR bullshit created to cover up the stink of what Bush Jr. did in Iraq and how it affected recruiting numbers.

 

[Simonbob]

The idea that the military is a team, and not a machine that cannot hold it's controllers accountable and often acts closer to semi-paid temporary indentured servitude, is pure PR cope and message massaging to keep gullible recruits from seeing through the facade before they sign a contract.

Bacle, it's not quite that simple. There are rules, both up and down, and the limits are on all aspects, even at the very top. It does have elements of the Machine, and in a number of ways it's a group of smaller teams working in the same direction, rather than something as unflexable as you seem to think.


Note, there are militaries that are closer to what you're saying, and the US military is heading that way, from what I can see. Those are 3rd World armies, where the expectation is that even junior officers rule everything, and the troops just obey. Not as good.




What was the line? "A junior officers job is to intelligently expand on the orders he's been given, and his sargent's job is to intelligently expand on the orders he's been given, right down to the lowest grunts. That's how America wins."

 

[Zachowon]

Yet we see that actually functional 'teams' have accountability up and down, not just one way.

Militaries are machines for achieving border defense and/or projecting power, and for a lot of history pressganging was standard practice in a lot of militaries, so it wasn't even about choice for a lot of folks, unless they were wealthy or connected.

Trying to rebrand the military as a 'team' is some of that lingering post 9/11 PR bullshit created to cover up the stink of what Bush Jr. did in Iraq and how it affected recruiting numbers.

Except it isn't.
Wanna know what makes the US military the best damn military in the world?
The NCO Corp. Wanna know why? Because guess what they do? Think of the team. The soldiers under every NCO is thier team.
I guess the survival of that team shouldn't matter. Since to you they arnt a team just mindless cogs.
I guess when the draft happens because of world War 3 and there are no competent team players in the Military or the NCO Corp the US will lose horribly.

Being oart of the team has been something the Army has had for a long time. Before forever wars

 

[Bacle]

Bacle, it's not quite that simple. There are rules, both up and down, and the limits are on all aspects, even at the very top. It does have elements of the Machine, and in a number of ways it's a group of smaller teams working in the same direction, rather than something as unflexable as you seem to think.


Note, there are militaries that are closer to what you're saying, and the US military is heading that way, from what I can see. Those are 3rd World armies, where the expectation is that even junior officers rule everything, and the troops just obey. Not as good.




What was the line? "A junior officers job is to intelligently expand on the orders he's been given, and his sargent's job is to intelligently expand on the orders he's been given, right down to the lowest grunts. That's how America wins."

Except it isn't.
Wanna know what makes the US military the best damn military in the world?
The NCO Corp. Wanna know why? Because guess what they do? Think of the team. The soldiers under every NCO is thier team.
I guess the survival of that team shouldn't matter. Since to you they arnt a team just mindless cogs.
I guess when the draft happens because of world War 3 and there are no competent team players in the Military or the NCO Corp the US will lose horribly.

Being oart of the team has been something the Army has had for a long time. Before forever wars

Yes, yes, I know that is the line.

If I didn't have a better understanding of the real, political nature of warfare, and how it often renders individual or 'team' sacrifice moot and how recruiting PR bullshit works to massage the appearance of what he military truly is and how it relates to national/international politics, I might even buy it.

No amount of NCO competence, and/or feeling you are fighting for the person next to you, can change a corrupt political system that is giving them marching orders or change the nature of the machine they reside in.

 

[Zyobot]

Not a gun guy, but considering how jerking someone around when they're holding an extremely deadly projectile-firing device is a recipe for disaster, that makes sense.

(In which case, I suppose it'd be best to wait for the shooter to finish unloading and for the all-clear call to sound off. )

 

[Zachowon]

Yes, yes, I know that is the line.

If I didn't have a better understanding of the real, political nature of warfare, and how it often renders individual or 'team' sacrifice moot and how recruiting PR bullshit works to massage the appearance of what he military truly is and how it relates to national/international politics, I might even buy it.

No amount of NCO competence, and/or feeling you are fighting for the person next to you, can change a corrupt political system that is giving them marching orders or change the nature of the machine they reside in.

War is not won without those teams on the ground.
And they can make chanhe. How do you think the Fort Hood leaderdhip responsiblefor Vennesa Gean got throen inder?
There are so many people from all over in the militaru that you just gotta complain to the right person.
example is on my base, there is always a bigger fish willing to root out the bad apples who will listem to someone who turns tjem on.

because the military may seem top down, without the lowers the top jave nothing to do.

so a team os vasrly powerful in the military. Especiallywith out standing leadership.

Something you will never understand.

or ask the countless veterans on this forum.
. @Spartan303 @Sailor.X @Tiamat @The Whispering Monk they all can vouge. 2 of them from diffrent branches even

Not a gun guy, but considering how jerking someone around when they're holding an extremely deadly projectile-firing device is a recipe for disaster, that makes sense.

(In which case, I suppose it'd be best to wait for the shooter to finish unloading and for the all-clear call to sound off. )

Unless you are doing something stupid where they pull the gun away from you that is

 

[Sailor.X]

War is not won without those teams on the ground.
And they can make chanhe. How do you think the Fort Hood leaderdhip responsiblefor Vennesa Gean got throen inder?
There are so many people from all over in the militaru that you just gotta complain to the right person.
example is on my base, there is always a bigger fish willing to root out the bad apples who will listem to someone who turns tjem on.

because the military may seem top down, without the lowers the top jave nothing to do.

so a team os vasrly powerful in the military. Especiallywith out standing leadership.

Something you will never understand.

or ask the countless veterans on this forum.
. @Spartan303 @Sailor.X @Tiamat @The Whispering Monk they all can vouge. 2 of them from diffrent branches even

Unless you are doing something stupid where they pull the gun away from you that is

When that happens Que Gunny cussing the poor bastard out for being a Dumbass.

 

[Sobek]

 

[Zyobot]

Comparing the Uvalde Police Department to a rabid, man-eating vampire?! ... Eh, fair enough.

 

[Tiamat]

Yes, yes, I know that is the line.

If I didn't have a better understanding of the real, political nature of warfare, and how it often renders individual or 'team' sacrifice moot and how recruiting PR bullshit works to massage the appearance of what he military truly is and how it relates to national/international politics, I might even buy it.

No amount of NCO competence, and/or feeling you are fighting for the person next to you, can change a corrupt political system that is giving them marching orders or change the nature of the machine they reside in.

War is not won without those teams on the ground.
And they can make chanhe. How do you think the Fort Hood leaderdhip responsiblefor Vennesa Gean got throen inder?
There are so many people from all over in the militaru that you just gotta complain to the right person.
example is on my base, there is always a bigger fish willing to root out the bad apples who will listem to someone who turns tjem on.

because the military may seem top down, without the lowers the top jave nothing to do.

so a team os vasrly powerful in the military. Especiallywith out standing leadership.

Something you will never understand.

or ask the countless veterans on this forum.
. @Spartan303 @Sailor.X @Tiamat @The Whispering Monk they all can vouge. 2 of them from diffrent branches even

Unless you are doing something stupid where they pull the gun away from you that is

Okay Bacle, we get it, you're still pissed for whatever reason about Iraq and Bush Jr., fine. Guess what? The Iraq War has been over for a while now. The last remaining member of the Bush dynasty got primaried out from what I hear. The Bushes are over. IMO the only real decent one was H. W. Bush Sr, and he was a WW2 vet, a TBF Avenger pilot who got shot down during the Chichinjima Incident where he managed to be rescued but several of his fellow aviators were literally cannibalized by the Japanese.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chichijima_incident

All that said, if this is really about your beef with Washington, fine. We get that, and you're not the only one that feels that way. If you feel that strongly enough, get involved in politics at the local level, and quit bitching on this forum. Change will come, slowly, but you have to work at it, and sometimes get involved beyond just voting. Wanna know why the Left gained so much ground in the culture war? No, it wasn't by cheating, they had lots of willing recruits, aka useful fools willing to do the groundwork.


Seriously though, not much I can really add to what Zachowon, SailorX, and others already said. It is still a team that requires working knowledge and intelligence (yeah, I know, there are plenty of jokes to be said about this), and leadership...and again, plenty of jokes to be made about some officers, ESPECIALLY Lieutenants, as well as sergeants, IE the "E-4 mafia", but that's probably for another thread. Fact remains, if you're pissed about political decisions? Get mad at Washington. IN the end, the civilian leadership still doles out the orders, for better or worse to the military.


By the way, did you also know I worked as a defense contractor for at least two different companies in the past, Raytheon one of them? And working for Raytheon was great, btw, or as long as it lasted anyway. Guess someone better add me to to the "member of the Truly Nasty Evil Shadowy Military-Industrial-Complex list".

 

[Tiamat]

Not a gun guy, but considering how jerking someone around when they're holding an extremely deadly projectile-firing device is a recipe for disaster, that makes sense.

(In which case, I suppose it'd be best to wait for the shooter to finish unloading and for the all-clear call to sound off. )

Any time I was on the firing line they always had VERY specific rules about what you were and were not supposed to do. My guess this originated from someone not paying attention....

 

[Zyobot]

Any time I was on the firing line they always had VERY specific rules about what you were and were not supposed to do. My guess this originated from someone not paying attention....

Yeah, something tells me I don't want to hear that story.

 

[Bacle]

Okay Bacle, we get it, you're still pissed for whatever reason about Iraq and Bush Jr., fine. Guess what? The Iraq War has been over for a while now. The last remaining member of the Bush dynasty got primaried out from what I hear. The Bushes are over. IMO the only real decent one was H. W. Bush Sr, and he was a WW2 vet, a TBF Avenger pilot who got shot down during the Chichinjima Incident where he managed to be rescued but several of his fellow aviators were literally cannibalized by the Japanese.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chichijima_incident

All that said, if this is really about your beef with Washington, fine. We get that, and you're not the only one that feels that way. If you feel that strongly enough, get involved in politics at the local level, and quit bitching on this forum. Change will come, slowly, but you have to work at it, and sometimes get involved beyond just voting. Wanna know why the Left gained so much ground in the culture war? No, it wasn't by cheating, they had lots of willing recruits, aka useful fools willing to do the groundwork.


Seriously though, not much I can really add to what Zachowon, SailorX, and others already said. It is still a team that requires working knowledge and intelligence (yeah, I know, there are plenty of jokes to be said about this), and leadership...and again, plenty of jokes to be made about some officers, ESPECIALLY Lieutenants, as well as sergeants, IE the "E-4 mafia", but that's probably for another thread. Fact remains, if you're pissed about political decisions? Get mad at Washington. IN the end, the civilian leadership still doles out the orders, for better or worse to the military.


By the way, did you also know I worked as a defense contractor for at least two different companies in the past, Raytheon one of them? And working for Raytheon was great, btw, or as long as it lasted anyway. Guess someone better add me to to the "member of the Truly Nasty Evil Shadowy Military-Industrial-Complex list".

It's not just the Bush's (you forget McConnell and the neo-cons are still there), and the Left didn't need to cheat in the culture war, because they effectively own the battlefield's it's played on, while the Right just wanted to grill. Which is how they were able to cheat in 2020, and why any trust anyone should have for US civil and military institutions should be in the negatives.it's more about how the military was supposed to be the last safeguard of the American Constitution, when all else fail.

Whatever good the US military has done in the past does not matter in the face of becoming willing tools to an illegit regime, particularly when civie, military, and intel leadership were in on the fucking Steele Dossier but still used it to attack Trump, knowing it was fake. Particularly now that Sussman has walked, and nothing will ever happen to Hillary for what she did, and Milley got away with the bullshit he pulled against Trump. Even SCOTUS is looking rather iffy now thanks to the leak.

And no amount of civic engagement will fix either recruitment numbers or political issues, until the ballot box is made trustworthy again, and the perps of the steal punished, which they probably never will be.

We may soon be in, if we already aren't, effectively a post-Constitutional oligarchy pretending to be a republic, and if the US military cannot grapple with that fact and their place in it, and what it means to their Oath to the Constitution, we are truly doomed to a 1984-type future, if not worse.

 

[Tiamat]

It's not just the Bush's (you forget McConnell and the neo-cons are still there), and the Left didn't need to cheat in the culture war, because they effectively own the battlefield's it's played on, while the Right just wanted to grill. Which is how they were able to cheat in 2020, and why any trust anyone should have for US civil and military institutions should be in the negatives.it's more about how the military was supposed to be the last safeguard of the American Constitution, when all else fail.

Whatever good the US military has done in the past does not matter in the face of becoming willing tools to an illegit regime, particularly when civie, military, and intel leadership were in on the fucking Steele Dossier but still used it to attack Trump, knowing it was fake. Particularly now that Sussman has walked, and nothing will ever happen to Hillary for what she did, and Milley got away with the bullshit he pulled against Trump. Even SCOTUS is looking rather iffy now thanks to the leak.

And no amount of civic engagement will fix either recruitment numbers or political issues, until the ballot box is made trustworthy again, and the perps of the steal punished, which they probably never will be.

We may soon be in, if we already aren't, effectively a post-Constitutional oligarchy pretending to be a republic, and if the US military cannot grapple with that fact and their place in it, and what it means to their Oath to the Constitution, we are truly doomed to a 1984-type future, if not worse.

So in other words, we're all guilty by association, and we're all doomed?? I mean, nothing will change your mind, really? So hey, might as well lay down and die then? Well, if that's how you feel about it...

 

[Bacle]

So in other words, we're all guilty by association, and we're all doomed?? I mean, nothing will change your mind, really? So hey, might as well lay down and die then? Well, if that's how you feel about it...

I think that things are unlikely to be unfucked by not being clear eyed about the problems we are facing.

Pretending that the political strife we are facing now doesn't have the fingerprints of the Dems and their cronies in the Pentagon and Langley is dis-ingenious, at best.

I haven't seen a way to unfuck things the Left doesn't already have effective counters for, a lot of cope about how 'clever' the Right is by playing by the old rules, and reliance on the assumption of a Red Wave in the fall and retaking the White House in 2024.

Getting politically active means nothing if the game is rigged anyway, and I have yet to see any measure that is likely to be truly effective at restoring trust to the ballot box.

The US military trying to paper-over it's leaderships complicity in this state of affairs, and the recruitment bullshit that tries to ignore it while also simultaneously pushing woke shit because they are having a hard time getting people and keeping people, while ignoring the massive Constituional violations going on in their leadership, both civil and military, particularly now that even SCOTUS is losing legitimacy due to scumbag interns...

What made America great is gone, is probably never coming back, and putting on rose-tinted glasses won't fix shit, nor will playing the old game that we already know is now rigged.

I don't know how to fix it, I'm not sure it can be 'fixed' anymore, and I do see a lot of cope and false hope that helps nothing and keep unrealistic expectations and tactics in place.

 

[Tiamat]

I think that things are unlikely to be unfucked by not being clear eyed about the problems we are facing.

Pretending that the political strife we are facing now doesn't have the fingerprints of the Dems and their cronies in the Pentagon and Langley is dis-ingenious, at best.

I haven't seen a way to unfuck things the Left doesn't already have effective counters for, a lot of cope about how 'clever' the Right is by playing by the old rules, and reliance on the assumption of a Red Wave in the fall and retaking the White House in 2024.

Getting politically active means nothing if the game is rigged anyway, and I have yet to see any measure that is likely to be truly effective at restoring trust to the ballot box.

The US military trying to paper-over it's leaderships complicity in this state of affairs, and the recruitment bullshit that tries to ignore it while also simultaneously pushing woke shit because they are having a hard time getting people and keeping people, while ignoring the massive Constituional violations going on in their leadership, both civil and military, particularly now that even SCOTUS is losing legitimacy due to scumbag interns...

What made America great is gone, is probably never coming back, and putting on rose-tinted glasses won't fix shit, nor will playing the old game that we already know is now rigged.

I don't know how to fix it, I'm not sure it can be 'fixed' anymore, and I do see a lot of cope and false hope that helps nothing and keep unrealistic expectations and tactics in place.

This sounds a lot like "self-fulfilling prophecy" to me.

 

[bintananth]

Not a gun guy, but considering how jerking someone around when they're holding an extremely deadly projectile-firing device is a recipe for disaster, that makes sense.

(In which case, I suppose it'd be best to wait for the shooter to finish unloading and for the all-clear call to sound off. )

Lee R. Emery was doing pretty much everything a good drill sergeant shouldn't do during that movie. Most people forget that his character was shot and killed by one of his character's trainees.

 

[Simonbob]

By the way, did you also know I worked as a defense contractor for at least two different companies in the past, Raytheon one of them? And working for Raytheon was great, btw, or as long as it lasted anyway. Guess someone better add me to to the "member of the Truly Nasty Evil Shadowy Military-Industrial-Complex list".

REEEE!!!!!