Breaking News January 6th Stop the Steal Rally & Capitol Breaching/Storming

[Lord Sovereign]

It is strongly arguably that the American Revolution itself was a conservative revolution, given that it was spurred on by the local governments in the colonies seeking to maintain the prior status quo and it was the British Parliament making radical changes.

This makes it one of the few regularly talked about ones, but you'll note most people don't learn about it framed as a right wing or conservative Revolution, rather, it's constantly tried to be reframed as a left wing one, even though when you dig into all the details it ends up looking really, REALLY weird for a so-called left wing revolution what with all the formal organization and establishment power on the colonial's side.

Ah, you play their game by calling it a "revolution" though.

It wasn't.

It was an English War of Secession.

Seriously, unlike any other revolution, there was no mass executions following victory. The Crown Loyalists were allowed to bugger off instead of having their heads removed.

 

[Doomsought]

Can the Defense Attorneys hit them with a lawsuit to release the footage as evidence?

People who are arrested by the FBI don't get access to a lawyer.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

It is strongly arguably that the American Revolution itself was a conservative revolution, given that it was spurred on by the local governments in the colonies seeking to maintain the prior status quo and it was the British Parliament making radical changes.

This makes it one of the few regularly talked about ones, but you'll note most people don't learn about it framed as a right wing or conservative Revolution, rather, it's constantly tried to be reframed as a left wing one, even though when you dig into all the details it ends up looking really, REALLY weird for a so-called left wing revolution what with all the formal organization and establishment power on the colonial's side.

I mean they straight up cited the Baron's revolt that created the Magna Carta IIRC and heavily modeled the US on the Roman Republican system.

I'd definitely say that's as conservative as you can get and the English press did try and slam them as libertines and radicals but the difference between them and say the Jacobins is night an day.

Totally distinct philosophies.

 

[Abhorsen]

Eh, calling it 'conservative' is a misnomer (as is to call it leftist or liberal or whatever), as conservative now doesn't necessarily mean conservative then, and conservative means different things on different sides of the Atlantic (same with the other phrases).

I'd say it's a revolt in favor of individual rights, limited government, and democracy/republicanism, while against aristocracy/monarchy.

 

[Bigking321]

I'd say it's a revolt in favor of individual rights, limited government, and democracy/republicanism, while against aristocracy/monarchy.

By today's standards that seems very conservative.

Our current left hates those things.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Eh, calling it 'conservative' is a misnomer (as is to call it leftist or liberal or whatever), as conservative now doesn't necessarily mean conservative then, and conservative means different things on different sides of the Atlantic (same with the other phrases).

I'd say it's a revolt in favor of individual rights, limited government, and democracy/republicanism, while against aristocracy/monarchy.

I suppose classical rather than conservative, to the Crown and the Parliament they must have looked like a bunch of Roman Larpers

 

[Cherico]

I suppose classical rather than conservative, to the Crown and the Parliament they must have looked like a bunch of Roman Larpers

To be fair all of the cool kids in the west larp as rome

 

[S'task]

Eh, calling it 'conservative' is a misnomer (as is to call it leftist or liberal or whatever), as conservative now doesn't necessarily mean conservative then, and conservative means different things on different sides of the Atlantic (same with the other phrases).

I'd say it's a revolt in favor of individual rights, limited government, and democracy/republicanism, while against aristocracy/monarchy.

No, it was conservative in the very most basic sense of the term in politics. The American Revolution initially just wanted to conserve the political status quo prior to the French and Indian War, IE, benign neglect where the colonies did their own thing for the most part and England left them alone to do it. Either that or compromise with changes to that status quo so long as they had a say in the matter (Parliamentary representation). It only became a war of secession once Parliament had basically rejected all other options and staked their ground on Parliamentary Supremacy Now, Forever, and If You Locals Get Uppity We're Abolishing Your Self Government Too that the colonies went full "fuck this shit, we're out".

Also, while the Americans really liked to use King George as their whipping boy, George wasn't who was setting policy on the Colonies, Parliament was. The American Revolution really wasn't as anti-aristocracy/monarchy as many make it out to be, sure it DID take on those elements later, but it was really a rebellion against a distant, unrepresentative parliament.

 

[Jormungandr]

To be fair all of the cool kids in the west larp as rome

Bah, true Western democracies emulate Greece, the OG, not those posing thieves west of them.

FBI doesn't want Jan 6th footage aired because there are too many undercovers and informants in it.

This needs to be a comedy skit on the level of "are we the baddies?".

"Pst, is he one of Ours?"
"I dunno. Wait, what do you mean one of Ours?"
"Nothing, nothing."
"..."
"..."
"Are you one of Ours?"
"...I don't know any more!"

 

[Carrot of Truth]

No, it was conservative in the very most basic sense of the term in politics. The American Revolution initially just wanted to conserve the political status quo prior to the French and Indian War, IE, benign neglect where the colonies did their own thing for the most part and England left them alone to do it. Either that or compromise with changes to that status quo so long as they had a say in the matter (Parliamentary representation). It only became a war of secession once Parliament had basically rejected all other options and staked their ground on Parliamentary Supremacy Now, Forever, and If You Locals Get Uppity We're Abolishing Your Self Government Too that the colonies went full "fuck this shit, we're out".

Also, while the Americans really liked to use King George as their whipping boy, George wasn't who was setting policy on the Colonies, Parliament was. The American Revolution really wasn't as anti-aristocracy/monarchy as many make it out to be, sure it DID take on those elements later, but it was really a rebellion against a distant, unrepresentative parliament.

A lot of the anti monarchy stuff came from former Jacobites who hated the current Royal family.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Also, while the Americans really liked to use King George as their whipping boy, George wasn't who was setting policy on the Colonies, Parliament was.

Seriously, this idea that Farmer George was somehow this odious, Caligula like tyrant, is one of the most infuriating things about the American view of history. Well, that and a lot of yanks thinking the entire war was like the battles of Lexington and Concord with the “stupid, slow British” having rings run around them by the heroic minutemen.

 

[Cherico]

Seriously, this idea that Farmer George was somehow this odious, Caligula like tyrant, is one of the most infuriating things about the American view of history. Well, that and a lot of yanks thinking the entire war was like the battles of Lexington and Concord with the “stupid, slow British” having rings run around them by the heroic minutemen.

The brits gave us one hell of a fucking fight, that was not an easy war at all.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

The brits gave us one hell of a fucking fight, that was not an easy war at all.

I believe Britain is one of the few countries that has the achievement of demolishing the US Army in the field. And indeed, the British Army got better as the years went on, which shows how good the Continental Army became as well.

You earned your freedom, I will grant you that.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

I believe Britain is one of the few countries that has the achievement of demolishing the US Army in the field. And indeed, the British Army got better as the years went on, which shows how good the Continental Army became as well.

You earned your freedom, I will grant you that.

The British got fucked by their obsession with maintaining a balance of power in Europe. They should have just thrown the mainland under the bus and focused on their empire.

 

[Cherico]

The British got fucked by their obsession with maintaining a balance of power in Europe. They should have just thrown the mainland under the bus and focused on their empire.

The british successfully pulled it off for centuries, the world wars were just unquiely god awful.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

The british successfully pulled it off for centuries, the world wars were just unquiely god awful.

There wasn't really a reason for them to keep doing it by WW1, They literally could have just told the mainland to get fucked and develop their empire. That does mean Germany is going to win WW1 but Imperial German puppet states would be a massive improvement over OTL Soviet rule.

 

[Circle of Willis]

No, it was conservative in the very most basic sense of the term in politics. The American Revolution initially just wanted to conserve the political status quo prior to the French and Indian War, IE, benign neglect where the colonies did their own thing for the most part and England left them alone to do it. Either that or compromise with changes to that status quo so long as they had a say in the matter (Parliamentary representation). It only became a war of secession once Parliament had basically rejected all other options and staked their ground on Parliamentary Supremacy Now, Forever, and If You Locals Get Uppity We're Abolishing Your Self Government Too that the colonies went full "fuck this shit, we're out".

Also, while the Americans really liked to use King George as their whipping boy, George wasn't who was setting policy on the Colonies, Parliament was. The American Revolution really wasn't as anti-aristocracy/monarchy as many make it out to be, sure it DID take on those elements later, but it was really a rebellion against a distant, unrepresentative parliament.

A lot of the anti monarchy stuff came from former Jacobites who hated the current Royal family.

Alexander Hamilton was (in)famously a proponent of an elective monarchy and between the collapse of the Articles of Confederation & the Constitutional Convention there was some serious consideration given to the idea of inviting a Prussian prince in to rule as the first King of America, as well. These are hardly developments I'd expect to be even marginally tolerated in the earliest days of a country born from a non-conservative, rabidly anti-monarchist revolution.

 

[S'task]

Alexander Hamilton was (in)famously a proponent of an elective monarchy and between the collapse of the Articles of Confederation & the Constitutional Convention there was some serious consideration given to the idea of inviting a Prussian prince in to rule as the first King of America, as well. These are hardly developments I'd expect to be even marginally tolerated in the earliest days of a country born from a non-conservative, rabidly anti-monarchist revolution.

Heck, there was basically a movement to crown George Washington King too. Had Washington been a lesser man than we would be talking about the House of Washington as the first Royal House of the Kingdom of these United States. It obviously would have ended up a constitutional monarchy similar to Great Britain with a limited power King and powerful legislative bodies... but it could have happened.

Yeah, many in the American Colonies were pretty OK with monarchy as an institution, it was just they felt that the specific monarchy and government had gone off the rails.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

The US with a Hohenzollern King in like a constitutional monarchy would be an interesting alt history scenario. That would definitely cause some weird stuff to happen once Bismark shows up assuming the old world doesn't get altered much.

 

[King Arts]

Alexander Hamilton was (in)famously a proponent of an elective monarchy and between the collapse of the Articles of Confederation & the Constitutional Convention there was some serious consideration given to the idea of inviting a Prussian prince in to rule as the first King of America, as well. These are hardly developments I'd expect to be even marginally tolerated in the earliest days of a country born from a non-conservative, rabidly anti-monarchist revolution.

What is the real practical difference between an elective monarchy and a republic? The leader of both is elected. Is it just the monarch is only elected once in his life as opposed to every few years?