Breaking News January 6th Stop the Steal Rally & Capitol Breaching/Storming

[Battlegrinder]

Also, the Confederate stuff does matter to people in the center, and defending the stuff does the Right no favors.

You appear to be the one that's off base here. According to most polling I've seen, anti confederate sentiment is the minority position amoung every group save leftists, and that position has only eroded to a relatively minor degree after years of incessent leftist propaganda.

 

[LindyAF]

'm not 'PC' on the environment, I'm realistic about it because I understand it.

I got my Bachelor's in General Geology, and have been looking at environmental issues on my own, separate from politics, for years.

The rad-greens are idiots, but mostly in how they want to address problems, not in thinking problems exist.

I want practical and sane environmental policies, and those will only happen when the Right as a while is willing to admit environmental issues are legit and not just smokescreen. Because the Right cannot effectively counter the rad-greens until they can accept not everything they are worried about is 'Leftist lies'.

On environmental issues I actually agree with you somewhat - I think parts of "Climate issues" is a smokescreen, but I get that there are plenty of decent White moderates and liberals who deeply care about the environment and want to make sure it's being preserved for their posterity, and that's a good thing. But the thing is that most of what the Left even does here is effectively just saying that they really care about the environment a lot. That's why I use the term PC - because most of it is just leftists saying "Trust the Science" and then clapping each other on the back for Trusting the Science, without actually having to do anything. Actually doing anything, especially anything that would actually address the issue is pretty unpopular. So what exactly a Republicans supposed to do here? They could start saying that they really care about the environment a lot as well, but the media would just downplay it so it wouldn't change anything.

IMO Republicans need to change the framing of environmental issues and find places they could get a fight from Democrats on where they're the ones who care about the environment - perhaps starting to push hard for Nuclear power, or some sort of program to reduce federal land in the west while increasing it in the east with a net increase?

On the environment, where I disagree with you is if you think Trump was abnormal for a Republican on environmental issues, or that environmental issues is a good example of uniparty or something like that.

 

[Terthna]

See, this is the most confusing thing about what you believe to me, because being scrupulously PC on Climate Change or Southern History was not really Trump's thing. Trump was the one who withdrew from the Paris Agreement, for instance. Trump's a new yorker, so it can't really be expected that he'd go around whistling dixie or anything, but he was pro- Southern History on a number of occasions, threatening to veto a military spending bill that would rename bases named after Robert E. Lee for instance, issueing executive orders to defend monuments (which Confederate ones are the most targeted, although other historic White American figures are increasingly targeted as well). DeSantis, who you praised earlier, is doing similar. If anything Trump and those who align themself with him are more pro Southern History than people like Nimrata Haley, who have made a point of removing Confederate symbols.

The Paris Agreement is a dog and pony show with no real teeth to it; it doesn't do anything to help the environment.

 

[Bacle]

You appear to be the one that's off base here. According to most polling I've seen, anti confederate sentiment is the minority position amoung every group save leftists, and that position has only eroded to a relatively minor degree after years of incessent leftist propaganda.

Do you seriously want me to trust 'polling' after 2016 and 2020?

On environmental issues I actually agree with you somewhat - I think parts of "Climate issues" is a smokescreen, but I get that there are plenty of decent White moderates and liberals who deeply care about the environment and want to make sure it's being preserved for their posterity, and that's a good thing. But the thing is that most of what the Left even does here is effectively just saying that they really care about the environment a lot. That's why I use the term PC - because most of it is just leftists saying "Trust the Science" and then clapping each other on the back for Trusting the Science, without actually having to do anything. Actually doing anything, especially anything that would actually address the issue is pretty unpopular. So what exactly a Republicans supposed to do here? They could start saying that they really care about the environment a lot as well, but the media would just downplay it so it wouldn't change anything.

IMO Republicans need to change the framing of environmental issues and find places they could get a fight from Democrats on where they're the ones who care about the environment - perhaps starting to push hard for Nuclear power, or some sort of program to reduce federal land in the west while increasing it in the east with a net increase?

On the environment, where I disagree with you is if you think Trump was abnormal for a Republican on environmental issues, or that environmental issues is a good example of uniparty or something like that.

'Nuclear power friendly policies' is pretty much one of the best ways the GOP could push the environmental arena around.

As well, the GOP can tout Trump getting permanent funding for the Nat'l Parks, and getting out of the Paris Deal which is a farce environmentally that mostly just allows everyone but the US to keep on doing what they are doing.

I would also say that the GOP could definitely help itself with the environmental groups if they pushed back a bit more against the oil industry and demand they actually comply with environmental regs in good faith, instead of paying fines as a 'cost of business'.

I'd point to Williams Petroleum as a great example of a oil group that decided that doing things safely and in regs the first time is well worth the return in not having to pay as many fines, and in getting locals to be happier with them than with other oil companies.

 

[S'task]

I know you guys only see environmental issues as a smokescreen for the Left to push things with, and I know nothing will change that view among a lot of the Right's historical base.

However, there are moderate Dems and Independents who DO believe a lot of that stuff, because some of it is true and not just a smokescreen.

This is yet again a case of people in the GOP thinking that they don't need to worry about thier perception among Independents and moderates, which is part of why the GOP keeps having issues when it reverts to pre-Trump methodologies and ideas about the electorate.

Also, the Confederate stuff does matter to people in the center, and defending the stuff does the Right no favors.

I asked you what you'd want the Republicans to do differently. Instead you attack the core Republican base.

That's avoiding the question. What, EXACTLY, could Republicans do to win over these centrist people you claim exist that is founded in actually good science and isn't, basically, just an excuse for Federal power grabbing?

 

[Bacle]

I asked you what you'd want the Republicans to do differently. Instead you attack the core Republican base.

That's avoiding the question. What, EXACTLY, could Republicans do to win over these centrist people you claim exist that is founded in actually good science and isn't, basically, just an excuse for Federal power grabbing?

See the post above this one for a few things that the GOP could do.

 

[LindyAF]

The Paris Agreement is a dog and pony show with no real teeth to it; it doesn't do anything to help the environment.

Yeah, this is most environmental policies. The options on environment as far as I'm aware are basically between a dog and pony show and no dog and pony show. Partially because anything not a dog and pony show would involve nuclear, which the left is touchy about, or would involve gas prices going up, which would be universally unpopular. I don't think mutual agreement on a dog and pony show, or a compromise of a dog show with no ponies would be beneficial.

 

[Battlegrinder]

Do you seriously want me to trust 'polling' after 2016 and 2020?

I know a guy that ate food once, and it turned out it was contaminated with something and he died. Guess I should never eat anything, it might be contaminated too.


Edit: Put less sarcastically, yes, polling has issues, however you don't really have another choice here. You're trying to argue that defending confederate symbols as valid is a lost cause. because most people don't like them. How exactly do you know that?

 

[Bacle]

Yeah, this is most environmental policies. The options on environment as far as I'm aware are basically between a dog and pony show and no dog and pony show. Partially because anything not a dog and pony show would involve nuclear, which the left is touchy about, or would involve gas prices going up, which would be universally unpopular. I don't think mutual agreement on a dog and pony show, or a compromise of a dog show with no ponies would be beneficial.

No, there are effective strategies out there that I think the GOP could get onboard with; tax breaks for environmentally friendly activities being one of the easiest ones to sell to the GOP base, and we already agree on nuclear.

However I'll give you an issue I rarely hear anyone in the GOP mention, but which does get play in the center and moderates: plastic garbage build up in the oceans.

Give tax breaks to US ships that go out and haul it back for proper sorting and recycling.

This is not a 'dog and pony show' issue, it's one with real ecological and environmental impact that is measurable and not a smokescreen.

I'll give you a second example of an area the GOP can improve upon environmentally, and deal with an actual issue that the rad-greens try to monopolize and is in the news now.

Cows in most types of livestock operations fart out a lot of methane compared to background environmental levels. The rad-greens want to get rid of cattle, or drastically reduce their number, to deal with this.

However, there are also studies out their involving feeding cows seaweed/kelp, instead of their normal feed, and they found the amount of methane they produce int their farts dropped a fair bit. So instead of getting rid of cows, we may just need to change their diets a bit, and seaweed is but one potential candidate for that. Seaweed farms aren't a 'new' thing, and increasing production of seaweed will also likely help the sea life in those areas, so it's a bonus in a way, that lets coastal communities help their inland kin and stimulate commerce between them.

Things like that are what the GOP needs to think about when it comes to wresting control of narratives and issues aay from the Dems.

 

[Zachowon]

I know you guys only see environmental issues as a smokescreen for the Left to push things with, and I know nothing will change that view among a lot of the Right's historical base.

However, there are moderate Dems and Independents who DO believe a lot of that stuff, because some of it is true and not just a smokescreen.

This is yet again a case of people in the GOP thinking that they don't need to worry about thier perception among Independents and moderates, which is part of why the GOP keeps having issues when it reverts to pre-Trump methodologies and ideas about the electorate.

Also, the Confederate stuff does matter to people in the center, and defending the stuff does the Right no favors.

I have yet to actually meet anyone that thought every Confederate momument should be taken down.
I have heard that they should be put in museum's. That they should help tell a story of brother fighting brother


I grew up in a state that was literally burned to the fucking ground, and we have a whole battleground where the union lost and had to bypass, and then you have stone mountain.

So my view may be biased, but they are not a reason centrists arnt voting republican. I have friends who grew up in the state and are centrist...and personally domt care. It is our history

 

[AnimalNoodles]

I'm not 'PC' on the environment, I'm realistic about it because I understand it.

I got my Bachelor's in General Geology, and have been looking at environmental issues on my own, separate from politics, for years.

The rad-greens are idiots, but mostly in how they want to address problems, not in thinking problems exist.

I want practical and sane environmental policies, and those will only happen when the Right as a whole is willing to admit environmental issues are legit and not just smokescreen. Because the Right cannot effectively counter the rad-greens until they can accept not everything they are worried about is 'Leftist lies'.

You need to avoid the normiecon shit and start delving deeper into the dissident right with groups like graph-twitter and pine tree gang and other cliques to find that. There is a great deal of admiration for guys like linkola and a growing sense of a kind of green right that takes green ideas, strips them of their hippy dippy gay earth mother stuff and re-contextualises them as masculine, healthy and pro-social.

 

[Bacle]

You need to avoid the normiecon shit and start delving deeper into the dissident right with groups like graph-twitter and pine tree gang and other cliques to find that. There is a great deal of admiration for guys like linkola and a growing sense of a kind of green right that takes green ideas, strips them of their hippy dippy gay earth mother stuff and re-contextualises them as masculine, healthy and pro-social.

...a Green Right...yes, that is a great way to put how I see the Right winning back the culture from the Woke Left.

A Green Right is something worth fighting for, and would reach back to Teddy Roosevelt, instead of Reagan.

 

[Zachowon]

...a Green Right...yes, that is a great way to put how I see the Right winning back the culture from the Woke Left.

A Green Right is something worth fighting for, and would reach back to Teddy Roosevelt, instead of Reagan.

You seem to think we are all one certain part of the right and not all diversified in what we think and believe.

There are right wingers who want certain things over others. Etc

 

[Bacle]

You seem to think we are all one certain part of the right and not all diversified in what we think and believe.

There are right wingers who want certain things over others. Etc

I know you aren't, but I also know how the Right is perceived from the outside and what perceptions are that the Right has to reckon with if it wants to make headway in the culture war.

 

[BlackDragon98]

Climate change is a scam.

I recall reading about some old prediction by "scientists" that climate change would destroy the Earth by 2000.

We still going strong though.

Honestly, the microplastics, San Andreas Fault, and the Yellowstone supervolcano are more likely to screw us all over than climate change.

 

[PeaceMaker 03]

Funny I see people talking about what we need to do to save the environment .

Where does most of the pollution come from ?

Plastic on the oceans I think 80% comes from 5 Asian river systems.

Particle pollutants again asia, a lot of Europe is worse off than the US. I know trying to bring euro cars to US is a pain because they do not meet our environmental standards. $3000 for a catalytic converter, plus changing glass, etc.

Living in Europe they did way more recycling, but after a while it seemed it was just a way to fine people for not recycling correctly.

“ Why are the police dumpster diving”?.... Oh that is the recycling police”.

 

[What's the sitch?]

I'll be willing to look into further "going green" "conserving the environment" type things in the USA when China, India and other places clean up their game. I think were good enough for the time being.

 

[Bacle]

 

[Rocinante]

I'll be willing to look into further "going green" "conserving the environment" type things in the USA when China, India and other places clean up their game. I think were good enough for the time being.

I'm all for a big nuclear push. It's more efficient AND better for the environment.

It's the best energy there is, AND it's green friendly.

 

[LindyAF]

IIRC the Trump administration tried to restart licensing for Yucca Mountain in 2017 and again in 2018, but it keeps getting killed by Nevada democrats in the Senate and House.