United States ICE facilities, policies and their performance

[Realm]

I’m basically accusing your side of making a nazi comparison but not having the testicular fortitude to commit fully to it this time.

Then grow the fuck up, because the term has a meaning you're mad at, and you're literally just complaining about tone.

Well, in this case, they happen to be foreign nationals who have failed to abide by proper immigration procedures, not members of minority groups who are in the country on proper legal terms.

Except for the hispanics picked up by ICE despite being citizens, literally having not failed to abide by proper immigration procedures.

So, not that. They are placed there on the basis of being foreign nationals without US citizeship, permanent residency status, a valid visa, or any other legal grounds for their stay in the country.

Except for the hispanics picked up by ICE despite being citizens, with no trial up to and including being deported.

Try better

 

[Marduk]

Except for the hispanics picked up by ICE despite being citizens.



Except for the hispanics picked up by ICE despite being citizens, with no trial up to and including being deported.

Try better

Every country in the world, by mere law of large numbers, by mistake sometimes arrests, even convicts innocent people for a crime they did not commit. Does that mean that all the justice systems in the world are unjust, oppressive institutions that randomly imprison people by mere whim of various people?

In light of this, rare mistakes do not define the nature or purpose of the whole organization or system.
You try better...

 

[Realm]

Every country in the world, by mere law of large numbers, by mistake sometimes arrests, even convicts innocent people for a crime they did not commit. Does that mean that all the justice systems in the world are unjust, oppressive institutions that randomly imprison people by mere whim of various people?

In light of this, rare mistakes do not define the nature or purpose of the whole organization or system.
You try better...

Rare mistake is 83 out of 420 detainer requests over a 2 year period being for citizens?

Worse odds than playing russian roulette isn't a rare mistake lol

 

[StormEagle]

Then grow the fuck up, because the term has a meaning you're mad at, and you're literally just complaining about tone.

You know what I take it back. It’s not a poorly veiled insinuation at all.

Because it’s full fucking frontal:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/07/16/its-not-wrong-to-compare-trumps-america-to-the-holocaust-heres-why/?outputType=amp

Column: The U.S. Holocaust Museum is wrong to deny that Trump’s racism resembles Nazism

The leaders of the U.S.

www.latimes.com

People Compare Trump's Plans for Mass Immigration Arrests to Kristallnacht

Kristallnacht marked the start of the Holocaust, when Nazis raided Jewish communities, burning synagogues, homes and businesses and killing nearly 100 people.

www.newsweek.com

This was two seconds on google. Your side is directly making the nazi comparison.

Fucking deal with it.

 

[Aaron Fox]

You know what I take it back. It’s not a poorly veiled insinuation at all.

Because it’s full fucking frontal:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/07/16/its-not-wrong-to-compare-trumps-america-to-the-holocaust-heres-why/?outputType=amp

Column: The U.S. Holocaust Museum is wrong to deny that Trump’s racism resembles Nazism

The leaders of the U.S.

www.latimes.com

People Compare Trump's Plans for Mass Immigration Arrests to Kristallnacht

Kristallnacht marked the start of the Holocaust, when Nazis raided Jewish communities, burning synagogues, homes and businesses and killing nearly 100 people.

www.newsweek.com

This was two seconds on google. Your side is directly making the nazi comparison.

Fucking deal with it.

Given that the GOP has a now-significant part of its base being literal diet nazis (at best)...

 

[Realm]

This was two seconds on google. Your side is directly making the nazi comparison.

Fucking deal with it.

Lol, I ain't a lib, and that ain't change the fact the term literally applies and screeching about how it's mean is just another sad chapter in my favorite book "Conservatives bitching about people being mean to them"

 

[Marduk]

Rare mistake is 83 out of 420 detainer requests over a 2 year period being for citizens?

Worse odds than playing russian roulette isn't a rare mistake lol

Sensationalism and misunderstanding of what a "detainer request" means.

U.S. Citizens Targeted by ICE: U.S. Citizens Targeted by Immigration and Customs Enforcement in Texas

www.cato.org

A larger scale study of cases, with some very important info on what actually a "detainer request" means and what happens to a person targeted by one, and it doesn't mean immediate and uncontested deportation, of course.
As i see it, it's an equivalent of arresting a suspect, which obviously is far from ensuring that this person is going to be convicted, nevermind being equivalent to a conviction.

 

[Realm]

A larger scale study of cases, with some very important info on what actually a "detainer request" means and what happens to a person targeted by one, and it doesn't mean immediate and uncontested deportation, of course.
As i see it, it's an equivalent of arresting a suspect, which obviously is far from ensuring that this person is going to be convicted, nevermind being equivalent to a conviction.

Okay? ICE still has a horrific false positive rate, making your initial statement "ICE doesn't run concentration camps because it's just for people not following immigration law!" completely laughable.

 

[Marduk]

Okay? ICE still has a horrific false positive rate, making your initial statement "ICE doesn't run concentration camps because it's just for people not following immigration law!" completely laughable.

So, what's that horrific false positive rate? And i mean ICE, as you claim, not "ICE in Miami-Dade county" specifically. It's very likely that a single county is far from representative of national data.

And even if it is horrific, that means ICE has poor investigatory effectivness and needs more training/better procedures, not that it's running concentration camps.

 

[Realm]

So, what's that horrific false positive rate? And i mean ICE, as you claim, not "ICE in Miami-Dade county" specifically. It's very likely that a single county is far from representative of national data.

You got any better data showing that the overall ICE rate of literally mistaking citizens as people in violation of immigration law is fine and dandy?

Or are you just gonna keep up this charade.

 

[Marduk]

You got any better data showing that the overall ICE rate of literally mistaking citizens as people in violation of immigration law is fine and dandy?

Or are you just gonna keep up this charade.

You have made a claim that:

ICE still has a horrific false positive rate,

Not me. Is this just your opinion, or do you have data?
Talk about charades...

 

[Realm]

You have made a claim that:

Not me. Is this just your opinion, or do you have data?
Talk about charades...

So wait, we're not able to make statements about institutions without having reliable data about every grouping of that institution, with any sample completely ignorable?

 

[Marduk]

So wait, we're not able to make statements about institutions without having reliable data about every grouping of that institution, with any sample completely ignorable?

As an alternative, do you want me to take a tiny, non representative sample of an institution's activity (ICE issues hundreds of thousands of those detainers a year, so 840 from a single facility is a tiny sample indeed), and accept your assertion that the same rate applies to the whole institution on your word alone?

Why would anyone agree to that?

 

[Realm]

Why would anyone agree to that?

But like, can I get, in writing, that you personally will not accept any assertion that is not backed up by a significant (Lets say 50 percent, or would you like another number there?) sample size of data, with anything less than that being obviously ignorable and foolish to mention?

 

[Marduk]

But like, can I get, in writing, that you personally will not accept any assertion that is not backed up by a significant (Lets say 50 percent, or would you like another number there?) sample size of data, with anything less than that being obviously ignorable and foolish to mention?

And what would i get in return for signing it?
So, at this point, i'm going to ask you to end this charade, as you like to call it. And stop the derail too, because it is one.

 

[Realm]

And what would i get in return for signing it?
So, at this point, i'm going to ask you to end this charade, as you like to call it. And stop the derail too, because it is one.

Aye aye Mr Staff member, enjoy the last word

 

[ShieldWife]

Everybody on the politically right side of this issue, I’m sure, wants ICE to be efficient, not arrest legal citizens, and minimize the amount of time people spend in detention centers. I would personally like ICE to get more funds to help with this.

My question though, is this: if ICE was 100% effective and efficient in catching illegals, never falsely held legal citizens, and deported illegals so quickly that no time in detention centers was necessary - would Realm and others still liken ICE and other organizations, people, or policies for protecting the border to Nazis? I suspect that they would.

 

[Lanmandragon]

Everybody on the politically right side of this issue, I’m sure, wants ICE to be efficient, not arrest legal citizens, and minimize the amount of time people spend in detention centers. I would personally like ICE to get more funds to help with this.

My question though, is this: if ICE was 100% effective and efficient in catching illegals, never falsely held legal citizens, and deported illegals so quickly that no time in detention centers was necessary - would Realm and others still liken ICE and other organizations, people, or policies for protecting the border to Nazis? I suspect that they would.

They might both seem fairly reasonable even if I disagree with them. The MSM and democract establishment though? Not a chance in hell as they don't really care about minorities. We're just a convenient political club they can use against thier opposition.

 

[StormEagle]

Everybody on the politically right side of this issue, I’m sure, wants ICE to be efficient, not arrest legal citizens, and minimize the amount of time people spend in detention centers. I would personally like ICE to get more funds to help with this.

My question though, is this: if ICE was 100% effective and efficient in catching illegals, never falsely held legal citizens, and deported illegals so quickly that no time in detention centers was necessary - would Realm and others still liken ICE and other organizations, people, or policies for protecting the border to Nazis? I suspect that they would.

No. They would never stop comparing ICE to the Gestapo, because racial conflict has now been made, or is currently being made, into a core platform of the Democratic Party and the left in general.

 

[LifeisTiresome]

No. They would never stop comparing ICE to the Gestapo, because racial conflict has now been made, or is currently being made, into a core platform of the Democratic Party and the left in general.

This. The left want Open borders for the west. What makes anyone think they care about border enforcement at all? Its all nazism to them. hell, didn't they declare recently that caring about preserving european culture is nazism?