History How did the Baby Boomers ruin everything?

[Cherico]

One has to judge a generation as an angergate not as indivduals.

There are plenty of great boomers out there, but one has to judge a generation by results. Fact is the boomers were handed a world that was remarkably stable with a great economy, great social cohesion, and a bunch of other good qualities. In pretty much every respect their leaving the world worse off then when they got it.

That's how you judge a generation by results, are they the worst generation no that title goes to Kaiser wilhelms generation the one that basically obliterated western civilization over stupid shit.

 

[S'task]

Huh, didn't think the Millennial generation definition stretched that far; would have though 83 qualified as GenX.

I thought Millennials started with those actually born around the year 2000, not up to 20 years before that, and the 1985 to roughly 1999 were the Centennials.

I sure as shit won't ID as a Millennial, instead of a Centennial, when I'm born in 1989, and I'm not old enough to be Gen X but younger than what should be thought of as a Millennial.

. . . As far as I can find "Centennial" is not a name commonly used for any generational cohort.

As far as WW2 to modern times the common Generational Cohorts are:

Greatest/GI Generation: ~1901 - ~1927
Silent Generation: ~1928 - ~1945
Baby Boomers: ~1946 - ~1964
Generation X: ~1965 - ~1980
Millennials: ~1981 - ~1996
Generation Z: ~1997 - ~2012
Generation Alpha: ~2013 - Present

You kinda got different generations cohorts confused here: specifically Millennials and GenZ. Millennials are the generation that began to come of age around the millennium, while Generation Z is those born around the millennium and Generation Alpha is the first generation born fully after the millennium.

That said, there is arguably kind of squishy edges to generations, but generally speaking Gen Alpha are the children of Millennials, Gen Z are the children of Gen X, Millennials are the Children of the Boomers, Gen X are the children of the Silent Generation, and Boomers are the Children of the GIs. Obviously there is some variance, and theoretically, say, an older Millennial couple (say born in 1984) if they had a child when they were 20 (2004) have a GenZ child, but that's more of a rarity these days.

 

[Bacle]

. . . As far as I can find "Centennial" is not a name commonly used for any generational cohort.

As far as WW2 to modern times the common Generational Cohorts are:

Greatest/GI Generation: ~1901 - ~1927
Silent Generation: ~1928 - ~1945
Baby Boomers: ~1946 - ~1964
Generation X: ~1965 - ~1980
Millennials: ~1981 - ~1996
Generation Z: ~1997 - ~2012
Generation Alpha: ~2013 - Present

You kinda got different generations cohorts confused here: specifically Millennials and GenZ. Millennials are the generation that began to come of age around the millennium, while Generation Z is those born around the millennium and Generation Alpha is the first generation born fully after the millennium.

That said, there is arguably kind of squishy edges to generations, but generally speaking Gen Alpha are the children of Millennials, Gen Z are the children of Gen X, Millennials are the Children of the Boomers, Gen X are the children of the Silent Generation, and Boomers are the Children of the GIs. Obviously there is some variance, and theoretically, say, an older Millennial couple (say born in 1984) if they had a child when they were 20 (2004) have a GenZ child, but that's more of a rarity these days.

See, I don't think those cut-offs make a lot of sense, particularly the different between being born in 64 vs 65.

By that metric, my father is Gen X instead of a Boomer, which I find laughable, Gen X is people born after 1970 from everything I'd seen before.

I am also not surprised the Centennials label doesn't get much play, because much easier to lump them all into Millennials and ignore that someone born in 1989 or 1991 experienced a very different childhood from someone born in 1983 or in 1997

 

[LordDemiurge]

TBH I don't blame the Boomers too harshly.

On one hand they were the generation that came under the delusion that eating your seed corn and selling off your land was a perfectly moral thing to do.

But on the other hand they were pretty much born into a hothouse of ideologies that gave birth to the intellectual HIV that we all know and are being lovingly violated by.

They had no real defense or immune system against it, and for decades they were riding a tail of prosperity that told them everything was going to be alright.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

a boomer made a comment once saying the following

"we gave you the internet, Apple computers and phones, companies that actually build and make things.... You know the systems you use to develop your victim status, use tiktok to be famous, develop dating apps since you can't socialize in person, and your parent's cars that you drive"

and I'm still left with the same question I'm left asking.
Is it not telling to the boomers that we are seeing a growing rise of "return to primitivism" movements among Xers millennials and Gen-Zers Generational homes, substance farming and hunting, the very lives that the boomers and greatest generation hated so much and "wanted better for thier kids?"

and I'm sorry @S'task but you are being way to soft on them. We are reared from birth that our parents and our grandparents are our elders, our superiors, our betters. Even the bible indicates that a good majority of what makes a person is based on how they are raised in thier formative years (Hence nurture your children in the respect of the Lord.) so why should I not feel a bit of grief when thier wisdom has messed me over? Yes we made the same decisions and...we are suffering the consequences of it...why should they be absolved of such a fate? it's also telling that the biggest concern is "Muh Social Security" Call me cynical but I don't think most give a darn about ethics, I think they are terrified their Ponzi scheme is drying up.

 

[S'task]

I think they are terrified their Ponzi scheme is drying up.

Their ponzi scheme?

Social Security was implemented by FDR in the 1930s, LONG before any Boomer was born, of all the generations that have paid into Social Security, the Boomers have paid, by far, the most adjusted for inflation. Further, of all the generations who were screwed over by the changing economies, Boomers are actually one of the WORST when it came to retirement. It was for them that companies changed from pension systems to the various investment schemes... and for many Boomers they saw their retirement investments wiped out in the Great Recession (which, for the record, is why you then had fewer job openings for many Millennials as they came of age, Boomers weren't retiring because they HAD to keep working to rebuild their retirement funding).

Anyway, as to

why should I not feel a bit of grief when thier wisdom has messed me over?

Because I do not believe in judging people based on their group membership, especially based on a quirk of their age. Yes, some Boomers dropped the ball, some Boomers were evil, while others did the best they could with what they knew, and others went above and beyond. To lump all these individuals together and hold them accountable for what the worst of them did is simply an exercise in collective guilt meant to make you feel better about the situation you find yourself in. If your parents, in particular, did something you feel was messed up: confront them over it and talk to them about it. But also ask yourself, what could your parents have done about the Boomer Banking executives who decided to arrange subprime mortgages like they did and triggered the Great Recession? What could your aunts or uncles done about Congress voting to extend most favorite nation status to China at the end of the Clinton administration? Perhaps, if they voted for Clinton, you could hold that against them and challenge them to understand that voting for Clinton was a mistake, and if their Representative and Senator voted for it and they voted for them, you could hold those votes against them... but are voters culpable for EVERY vote a representative they voted for makes? What if they specifically called them to lobby against a vote?

At the end of the day, this obsession with collective blame for "how things are" is pointless, because it casts blame to widely and allows those who actually made the decisions and took actions hide as part of the collective, and while you lash out at the collective, encouraging anger and division between generations, those with the power laugh and continue to do things, all while you're pissed because you have 20/20 Hindsight and your parents, and their peers, did not.

It's always easy to judge looking back at things, and while yes, there's SOME thing that clearer were bad ideas at the time and shouldn't have been implemented, and you had people warning about those bad idea at those times and were ignored (Ross Perot on outsourcing comes to mind, much of the American Social Conservative movement on... well I'm not going to start counting topics); other things, like the idea of the pathway to success involving going to college, nobody questioned at the time, all the data showed it to be true, and the common person had no way of knowing how things would end up. The only reason we know now that it wasn't the best path forward for many is that we can look back and know that as we have information those at that time did not.

And that's fundamentally why I hold this entire exercise is just a way to shift blame and feel better about yourself. Collective guilt and blame are inherently unjust AND much of said blame involved hindsight that it is not fair to expect people to have had at the time.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

At the end of the day, this obsession with collective blame for "how things are" is pointless, because it casts blame to widely and allows those who actually made the decisions and took actions hide as part of the collective, and while you lash out at the collective, encouraging anger and division between generations, those with the power laugh and continue to do things, all while you're pissed because you have 20/20 Hindsight and your parents, and their peers, did not.

It's always easy to judge looking back at things, and while yes, there's SOME thing that clearer were bad ideas at the time and shouldn't have been implemented, and you had people warning about those bad idea at those times and were ignored (Ross Perot on outsourcing comes to mind, much of the American Social Conservative movement on... well I'm not going to start counting topics); other things, like the idea of the pathway to success involving going to college, nobody questioned at the time, all the data showed it to be true, and the common person had no way of knowing how things would end up. The only reason we know now that it wasn't the best path forward for many is that we can look back and know that as we have information those at that time did not.

And that's fundamentally why I hold this entire exercise is just a way to shift blame and feel better about yourself. Collective guilt and blame are inherently unjust AND much of said blame involves hindsight that it is not fair to expect people to have had at the time

and telling those in the bad situation to essentially "Eat it" doesn't allow those responsible to hide and do it again with someone else? Whether it's hindsight or not we are still the ones to suffer for the sins of the past, so where is ours? and you want to talk about collective blame? Millennials and Gen Zers are collectively blamed for everything wrong with current western society from hobbies to social-political issues to economic issues, to the point where many myself included actively despise our generation, even though honestly we're carrying the torch passed down by our grandparents and parents

"Why did you do that how can you be so stupid and entitled?"

"I'm just doing what you taught me to do."

Why should we continue to participate in a system where we are receiving increasingly little benefit? Were expected to pay the debts for the mistakes of the past best intentions or not, and yet when we lament our situation we're spoiled and entilted. Instead of "White Guilt" it's "youth guilt." Gee I wonder why people are having fewer kids? I wonder why they are beginning to opp out of normal society and relearn those skills that the previous generations seemed to loathe?

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

TBH I don't blame the Boomers too harshly.

On one hand they were the generation that came under the delusion that eating your seed corn and selling off your land was a perfectly moral thing to do.

But on the other hand they were pretty much born into a hothouse of ideologies that gave birth to the intellectual HIV that we all know and are being lovingly violated by.

They had no real defense or immune system against it, and for decades they were riding a tail of prosperity that told them everything was going to be alright.

I think I'd put less blame on them if it wasn't for the fact that we're being scapegoated for the simple fact that actions have consequences work BOTH ways. "was everything I know wrong? No that's not possible it's them darn youths that are out of touch. Meanwhile youths (at least on the right and center) are starting to wake up. We've swallowed the hard red pill that everything we've been told is a lie. now we're just trying to find ways to opt out of the scam amd trying to find some sense of idenity and purpose. I mean as wrong as it is, there is a reason why some "Redpiled" are embracing some...questionable ideologies and figures...like andrew tate for instance.

 

[S'task]

and telling those in the bad situation to essentially "Eat it" doesn't allow those responsible to hide and do it again with someone else and whether it's hindsight or not we are still the ones to suffer for the sins of the past, so where is ours? and you want to talk about collective blame? Millennials and Gen Zers are collectively blamed for everything wrong with current western society from hobbies to social-political issues to economic issues, to the point where many myself included actively despise our generation, even though honestly we're carrying the torch passed down by our grandparents and parents

"Why did you do that how can you be so stupid and entitled?"

"I'm just doing what you taught me to do."

Why should we continue to participate in a system where we are receiving increasingly little benefit? Were expected to pay the debts for the mistakes of the past best intentions or not, and yet when we lament our situation we're spoiled and entilted. Instead of "White Guilt" it's "youth guilt." Gee I wonder why people are having fewer kids? I wonder why they are beginning to opp out of normal society and relearn those skills that the previous generations seemed to loathe?

I think I'd put less blame on them if it wasn't for the fact that we're being scapegoated for the simple fact that actions have consequences work BOTH ways. "was everything I know wrong? No that's not possible it's them darn youths that are out of touch. Meanwhile youths (at least on the right and center) are starting to wake up. We've swallowed the hard red pill that everything we've been told is a lie. now we're just trying to find ways to opt out of the scam amd trying to find some sense of idenity and purpose. I mean as wrong as it is, there is a reason why some "Redpiled" are embracing some...questionable ideologies and figures...like andrew tate for instance.

And thus you find yourself falling for propaganda...

Look for the origin of these ideas that somehow Millennials and GenZ are to blame for things. Have you ever actually tried? Guess where those ideas started and it wasn't with rank and file Boomers. No, it was the media, writing all kinds of articles meant to CREATE this kind of generational strife, to create fear and spread division between people. Yes, many Boomers and GenX then echo these accusations, buoyed by some parts of the Millennials and GenZ who FIT those negative stereotypes... and in turn Millennials and GenZ throw accusations back, also buoyed by some parts of the Boomers who fit those negative stereotypes. All the while the media, and the elites they serve, happily go about continuing to ruin things knowing they've driven a wedge between generations so those generations won't compare notes, cooperate, and change their voting patterns to oust those who have ACTUALLY caused all these issues.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Look for the origin of these ideas that somehow Millennials and GenZ are to blame for things. Have you ever actually tried? Guess where those ideas started and it wasn't with rank and file Boomers. No, it was the media, writing all kinds of articles meant to CREATE this kind of generational strife, to create fear and spread division between people. Yes, many Boomers and GenX then echo these accusations, buoyed by some parts of the Millennials and GenZ who FIT those negative stereotypes... and in turn Millennials and GenZ throw accusations back, also buoyed by some parts of the Boomers who fit those negative stereotypes. All the while the media, and the elites they serve, happily go about continuing to ruin things knowing they've driven a wedge between generations so those generations won't compare notes, cooperate, and change their voting patterns to oust those who have ACTUALLY caused all these issues

Okay I'm sorry to be blunt here but.... AND? So what if is propaganda what's going to be done to fix it? Because so far the only solution is eat and hope the next generation fixes it and those of us who go that's not good enough are treated like entitled brats "don't you realize how good you have it (eat the bugs)" what are we supposed to do huh then? Voting seemingly has minimal impact. The laws rigged in favor of those making it so again what are we supposed to do? Just sit and take it because that's our "moral duty?'

My generation has nothing left to lose. As a whole We're don't marry we don't have kids we have no possessions or pride heck we don't have a reputation worth keeping we don't even have an identity. Why SHOULD we keep going?

 

[S'task]

Okay I'm sorry to be blunt here but.... AND? So what if is propaganda what's going to be done to fix it? Because so far the only solution is eat and hope the next generation fixes it and those of us who go that's not good enough we are treated like entitled brats "don't you realize how good you have it (eat the bugs)" the what are we supposed to do huh? Voting seemingly has minimal impact. The laws rigged in favor of those making it so again what are we supposed to do? Just sit and take it because that's our "moral duty?'

My generation has nothing left to lose.As a whole We're don't married we don't have kids we have no possessions or pride heck we don't have a reputation worth keeping we don't even have an identity.why SHOULD we keep going?

The fact you think voting makes no difference shows how demoralized and successful their propaganda has been.

Stop and ACTUALLY look around when generations stop fighting and come together against the establishment and how badly that makes the establishment panic. Politics is LOCAL first and foremost, and it's easy for a small cadre of motivated people to take over a local political office and begin pushing for changes.

Get enough people working on that in enough places and you can effect change.

This is literally how the Democrats and Progressives have done things for decades, the added layer of media propaganda is just icing on the cake. Local organizing, pushing reforms locally, and building a grassroots campaign against the establishment and for the needed reforms has to start somewhere, and if you aren't married and have kids you have PLENTY of time to engage in such activities.

You want there to be change? You need to be out there making the change. But you're rather bitch and moan about how it's other people's fault and somehow... that will make it better? No, you've been dealt a shitty hand (though really, how shitty is it really compared to many other people in the world or compared to history?), but that's the hand your dealt, so stop bitching and play it.

You want community: go build community. You want change: go organize change. Sitting on your ass complaining about how it's all the Boomers' fault and the powers that be cannot be challenged helps nobody, does nothing, and it reveals that all you're seeking is affirmation for your depression and despair. You want a pity party where everyone can go "woah is us" together just so you can justify spending that extra hours online rather than going to Church or some other community event.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

The fact you think voting makes no difference shows how demoralized and successful their propaganda has been.

Stop and ACTUALLY look around when generations stop fighting and come together against the establishment and how badly that makes the establishment panic. Politics is LOCAL first and foremost, and it's easy for a small cadre of motivated people to take over a local political office and begin pushing for changes.

Get enough people working on that in enough places and you can effect change.

This is literally how the Democrats and Progressives have done things for decades, the added layer of media propaganda is just icing on the cake. Local organizing, pushing reforms locally, and building a grassroots campaign against the establishment and for the needed reforms has to start somewhere, and if you aren't married and have kids you have PLENTY of time to engage in such activities.

You want there to be change? You need to be out there making the change. But you're rather bitch and moan about how it's other people's fault and somehow... that will make it better? No, you've been dealt a shitty hand (though really, how shitty is it really compared to many other people in the world or compared to history?), but that's the hand your dealt, so stop bitching and play it.

You want community: go build community. You want change: go organize change. Sitting on your ass complaining about how it's all the Boomers' fault and the powers that be cannot be challenged helps nobody, does nothing, and it reveals that all you're seeking is affirmation for your depression and despair. You want a pity party where everyone can go "woah is us" together just so you can justify spending that extra hours online rather than going to Church or some other community event.

You know what I want to continue this argument and I certainly have shots but ultimately it's pointless as we are just going to go round and round. I disagree with your opinion and that's that. I hope you have a good day.

 

[Terthna]

This demand for student loan forgiveness and the shifting of blame to other generations about it by Millennials and GenZ is some of the most immature bullshit I've seen. It refuses to take responsibility for one's own decisions while also understanding that the circumstances of the world can shift and change and not always for the better. It is as if they believe they are entitled to financial security, rather than having to work for it, and that sometimes financial security requires making lifestyle sacrifices. It's ridiculous.

The problem is, Millenials and GenZ are in the same boat as Boomers. Ultimately, the people who are at fault for them being in such massive debt without anything to show for it are academia, the media, and the government; and I'd argue it's less about shifting blame than admitting that collage education is a scam. We need to cut our losses, and mitigate the damage that's already been done; meaning that student loan forgiveness should be predicated on ending all student loan programs, and officially denouncing collage degrees as worthless.

 

[Aaron Fox]

The problem is, Millenials and GenZ are in the same boat as Boomers. Ultimately, the people who are at fault for them being in such massive debt without anything to show for it are academia, the media, and the government; and I'd argue it's less about shifting blame than admitting that collage education is a scam. We need to cut our losses, and mitigate the damage that's already been done; meaning that student loan forgiveness should be predicated on ending all student loan programs, and officially denouncing collage degrees as worthless.

The thing is it's less a 'college education is worthless' and more 'trying to kill the Vocational Education System is bad' than anything.

That and people back in the early 2000s didn't expect the automation revolution to hit full stride by the mid-20teens.

 

[Sailor.X]

I've often heard the refrain, from both left and right, that the generation ultimately responsible for the current mess were the Baby Boomers (1946-1964). I'm certain they made poor decisions as a generation, but I am uncertain as to the specifics. That and from my perspective it appears that the Boomers bought into the structurally flawed from the start welfare system put in by the Greatest Generation (who confused fighting a total war with running a country), and it spiralled out of control from there. They made the mess worse but they weren't its creator.

They are responsible for the Clusterfuck known as the LCS Class of ships. That should tell you all you need to know about their decision making.

 

[Blasterbot]

The thing is it's less a 'college education is worthless' and more 'trying to kill the Vocational Education System is bad' than anything.

That and people back in the early 2000s didn't expect the automation revolution to hit full stride by the mid-20teens.

given that between 27-29% of college grads end up working in the field they major in? yeah that is a bad deal considering the sheer debt you have to take on to get it. that more than 70% of kids who grew up being told just get to college and put in the work and a job will be waiting for you did just that and ended up in debt? yeah they probably would have been better off just skipping college and aiming for being a manager at Dairy Queen or some shit. at least they would have been earning money for the 4-6 years and not walking out with 50k or more in debt. even if you say they were only earning near minimum wage during that time you are talking a six figure difference in wealth.

people got told any college degree would be good. they were lied to. specific degrees are needed and not everyone can do STEM or be a lawyer or some shit. so there ended up being a surplus in people with degrees that were niche and had no value for a career. at the same time those people if they had gone into a trade would have spent a tenth of the money been done in a year or less and had jobs at the end of it that payed well if not quite six figures.

automation didn't cause these issues. they only exasperate the labor issues we already are facing. hell a significant portion of the talk against those jobs I've heard other than just general elitist sentiment of being too good to work in a factory or a trucking job is that they would be automated away in the near future. That AI seems to be knocking out White collar jobs first is hilarious karma.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

College isn’t worthless. The issue is it was never meant to be so oversaturated as it is now.

 

[Blasterbot]

College isn’t worthless. The issue is it was never meant to be so oversaturated as it is now.

True. however for the majority of people going there it is not merely worthless. it is an active detriment to them. that figure was graduates. it didn't account for dropouts.

 

[S'task]

The technocratic thinking that caused the college boom pre-dates the Baby Boomers and goes back to the GI Generation and those that came before. Basically, what happened was they saw that one path to success resulted in exceptionally better results (High School > College Degree > Professional Career) and decided to try and maximize the number of people going that path as a way to uplift the country.

Bear in mind, in the mid 20th century the idea that everything in economics answered to Supply and Demand was not as well accepted, and not applied to everything. This was the era that was dominated by Keynesian and Marxist economics and while the Austrians were writing against them, nobody had yet synthesized Austrian economic thinking in a way the elites accepted (Elites HATE Austrian economics because Austrians basically say the best thing government can do for the economy is shut up, sit down, and let people be*).

Boomers actually became some of the biggest critics of Keynesian economics, the first big wave of Boomer legislatures came into office in the early 90s as part of the Republican Revolution and forced Clinton into reducing government control of things ("The era of big government is over"), and it was those same Boomer politicians that opposed GenX Obama's clearly Keynesian economic policies and made up the mass bulk of the Tea Party protests against Obama, which were heavily economically driven.

---------
* This aside reminded me of one of the best political rap battles ever put on Youtube: Keynes vs Hayek Round 2. Don't just listen (even though it's a great song) the visuals are also utterly critical in telling the story and note how the Elites always gravitate and favor Keynes while Hayek's main support comes from the common. Hilariously, we even got a test of which approach worked better when Trump became president and took a much more... Hayekian approach to the economy and things grew well beyond what all the elites predicted was the "new normal" under Obama's Keynesian inspired policies... at least until COVID and suddenly everything was being centrally controlled again... funny that...

 

[IndyFront]

I think the whole idea of generations is retarded. People change as they get older, you can't hold what someone did in their 20's and 30's over their head their whole lives, after a certain point you're not even the same person anymore. The millennials now would be roughly the age of the Boomers when they "ruined" everything. Are millennials ruining everything? No, the elites are. Same goes for when the Boomers were in their prime. Elites ruining everything. Not poor people.