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Floridaman

Well-known member
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My eyes, they see no F-15s(or I assume something like the F-105 would be a good match for the Vietcong) or nukes.

Also, the second a U.S. civil war starts I am sure that ample chances for capability upgrades courtesy of foreign supplies will arise.

I mean, the DonBass alone is probably going to be the biggest owner of Javelins and NLAWs soon, and I am sure they will be happy to resell it. 😂 :sneaky:

Moreover, using nukes against a population as dispersed as the "red states" will be massively counter-productive.

Against a few huge cities like the ones that house most of the democrat voting base - maybe.
Yeah, given the weapons we have been giving Ukraine, and other countries. I have a feeling more than a few countries would like to play the game of turn about is fair play.
 

Ixian

Well-known member
Why in the world would I think the US military, which is going through full on woke purges despite already being rather undermanned, would actually do anything to resist the powers in DC, so long as their paychecks are coming in and they are still expecting to fight Russia or China or both?

Particularly when the military already showed it's colors during the later stages of the Trump Admin; the Pentagon and people that matter are all firmly in the Dem camp, and they are already paranoid about people in the military being 'right wing' enough to justify those 'extremism' standdowns.
See, now, I really doubt they'd bring in foreign troops to do it, simply because the only place close enough, with enough manpower to even be of some use to DC and willing to take orders from DC, is Canada.

The rank and file would join precisely because of those "extremism" stand downs, and the woke bs, and the weak leadership.

Very few servicemembers were pleased with what has been going on while I was active duty. Anecdote I know, but its not like there have been a lot of surveys about this.

I would suppose it depends on how long the hypothetical conflict lasted, when/if the Biden administration requested them, and if the UN was worried about America's nuclear arsenal falling into rebel hands. Depending on the scope I could see them bringing in blue helms from all over.
 

Floridaman

Well-known member
On a very much related note, you Murikanski need to read up on ACTUAL CIVIL WARS not that secession attempt the South pulled.
Check out the Russian and Spanish civil wars, in particular.
This is IMHO how a U.S. 2nd civil war would play out.
I would point more to the Yugoslavia wars, we are likely to see that level of sectarian violence.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
I would point more to the Yugoslavia wars, we are likely to see that level of sectarian violence.
You look to me more like Imperial Russia than you do Yugoslavia.

Yugoslavia was a much more, pardon my SJW, diverse, entity, that was built up within a shorter timespan, as a vehicle of Serb megalomania.
And besides you would be fighting to preserve the USA from the other side, not to split off from it, IMHO.

A lot of the support for the Commies actually came from disgruntled military and working class people who were disgusted with the Tzar's incompetence at fighting the war and the inability of the Provisional Government to end it, also with the economy being in the shitter.
 

Lord Sovereign

The resident Britbong
Unlike some I am not so foolish to believe violent resistance will do anything but give the oppressive powers in DC precisely what they want to enable even more/easier destruction of our liberties/rights/enable their excesses.
Yes, I'm aware of the the idea/cope floating around that refuses to admit that the Dems have already made plain they will absolutely use the full might of the US military against any 'rebellion/revolution' that happens.

Like, the Dems aren't wrong that AR-15s and a desire to reinact 1776/Red Dawn aren't going to match air power, orbital assets, or nukes.

It wouldn't matter if they did. Christ Almighty, you'd have been one of Napoleon's Marshal's getting anally fisted by Spanish Guerrilla fighters and wailing as to how its happening when you have nice shiny cannons and cavalry. You haven't got a sodding clue how insurgency warfare works, and that it can even the odds rather straightforwardly. For example, nuke? What the flying fuck would they be nuking if they can't pin down the enemy's location? Are you suggesting they carpet bomb entire states?

Our Founders, including a ancestor of mine, were fighting a very different sort of war than modern wars, even civil wars, have become.

Airpower, nigh-instant global comms, orbital assets, and nuclear weapons were not present in 1776, and no amount of courage or bravery can offset those threats or deal with them in any meaningful way.

As well in 1776, we had help from the French, and this time the only powers who might back a 'rebellion/revolution' in the US are...Russia, China, and maybe some of their allies. I shouldn't have to explain why that is a very different situation from 1776.

Your ancestor would call you a coward and your belly aching shames him and every American who fell for the freedom of the Thirteen Colonies.

And you really do not grasp how lopsided things were against the Colonials in 1776. The were a militia against the fucking British Army. The massed ranks of bayonet, musketry and cannon were the air power of their day. The principles of war do not change. And the reason they got foreign support was because they fought well and ultimately clapped Burgoyne's cheeks at Saratoga. There's a good chance they'd have won on their own in the long run.
 

Floridaman

Well-known member
You look to me more like Imperial Russia than you do Yugoslavia.

Yugoslavia was a much more, pardon my SJW, diverse, entity, that was built up within a shorter timespan, as a vehicle of Serb megalomania.
And besides you would be fighting to preserve the USA from the other side, not to split off from it, IMHO.

A lot of the support for the Commies actually came from disgruntled military and working class people who were disgusted with the Tzar's incompetence at fighting the war and the inability of the Provisional Government to end it, also with the economy being in the shitter.
I meant more in how fighting is likely to lead to a collapse of broader authority, and a fuck ton of score settling.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
It wouldn't matter if they did. Christ Almighty, you'd have been one of Napoleon's Marshal's getting anally fisted by Spanish Guerrilla fighters and wailing as to how its happening when you have nice shiny cannons and cavalry. You haven't got a sodding clue how insurgency warfare works, and that it can even the odds rather straightforwardly. For example, nuke? What the flying fuck would they be nuking if they can't pin down the enemy's location? Are you suggesting they carpet bomb entire states?
And you seem to forget the military/DC has learned from their time in the ME how to find and root out insurgents, if they have no red tape in the way.

That's not even counting phone tapping, internet monitoring, persistent drone surveillance, satellite surveillance, glowies all over the place, or other intel abilities that they'd have even more of on the homefront than they'd have in the MidEast.

And yes, if the rebels got close enough to obtaining nukes of their own, I am very sure DC would break open some instant sunshine rather than let rebels get their own nukes.

Your ancestor would call you a coward and your belly aching shames him and every American who fell for the freedom of the Thirteen Colonies.

And you really do not grasp how lopsided things were against the Colonials in 1776. The were a militia against the fucking British Army. The massed ranks of bayonet, musketry and cannon were the air power of their day. The principles of war do not change. And the reason they got foreign support was because they fought well and ultimately clapped Burgoyne's cheeks at Saratoga. There's a good chance they'd have won on their own in the long run.
Different time, different situation, and the only reason the Colonies won was because the fire than could have consumed my ancestors fort, and left Washington's entire western flank open to Indian and British out of the Ohio Valley, happened to be put out by a miraculous rain shower shortly after a raid managed to get a fire going in the main part of the fort.

1776 was a very near thing, a lot dicier than most realize these days, and that was just with the weapons of the time.

The principles of war do change, and have changed, a lot with the introduction of airpower, rapid comms, and nukes. There was no such thing as MAD in 1776, that's for sure, and neither was airpower even a topic then (cannon do not count as 'airpower' in any meaningful fashion).

Also, we got French help because they wanted to fuck with the Brits, and it was Tsarist Russia who actually helped negotiate the Treaty of Paris.

My ancestor was smart enough to know how to fight smart and effectively against the Brits and Indians in a land he knew/grew up in/knew very well; that does not mean he'd be blind to the changes modern weapons have caused in the calculus of modern war, even in familiar terrain. It is not cowardice to understand when a fight cannot be won using the tactics and methodology of a war that happened a long time ago and no longer necessarily hold true anymore.
 

Sobek

Disgusting Scalie
On a very much related note, you Murikanski need to read up on ACTUAL CIVIL WARS not that secession attempt the South pulled.
Check out the Russian and Spanish civil wars, in particular.
This is IMHO how a U.S. 2nd civil war would play out.

This is true. I don't think anyone but extremely delusional people, both left and right, think the 2ACW would be like the first with states actually seceding into a Confederacy. Sure some solid Blue and solid Red states might, but most will split among low density municipalities and tows and the archipelago of blue cities around the country.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
Am I supposed to know who "PF" is? Anyways; while I understand Bacle's pessimism, and even share it to a certain extent, I don't think the establishment is as undefeatable as he insists. They're still human, at the end of the day. They are capable of making mistakes; and they are neither all-powerful, nor all-knowing. Sure, they have nukes and tanks and fighter jets, and have managed to subvert the election process; but none of that means anything in the long-term. At the end of the day, it's all about convincing you that you cannot make a difference, and making you too scared to try; but anger and hatred have a way of making those concerns irrelevant.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Am I supposed to know who "PF" is?
Planefag

Anyways; while I understand Bacle's pessimism, and even share it to a certain extent, I don't think the establishment is as undefeatable as he insists. They're still human, at the end of the day. They are capable of making mistakes; and they are neither all-powerful, nor all-knowing. Sure, they have nukes and tanks and fighter jets, and have managed to subvert the election process; but none of that means anything in the long-term. At the end of the day, it's all about convincing you that you cannot make a difference, and making you too scared to try; but anger and hatred have a way of making those concerns irrelevant.
I do not think the powers in DC are unbeatable, I just understand political violence/uprisings won't work and will play into their hands.

The way to beat DC is to take pages out of MLK's playbook, not George Washington's.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
This is true. I don't think anyone but extremely delusional people, both left and right, think the 2ACW would be like the first with states actually seceding into a Confederacy. Sure some solid Blue and solid Red states might, but most will split among low density municipalities and tows and the archipelago of blue cities around the country.

map in question

p-1-try-to-impeach-this-original.gif



Does the blue look defensable to you?
 

CurtisLemay

Wargamer, Amateur Historian, Writer
Nuke Mod
Moderator
Staff Member
Founder
Ok,
I am in my mod voice now. And you know how much I hate that. Everyone chill out. The left wants you to freak out to justify whatever they will do next. Don't feed the troll. Is this upsetting and scary? Yes. But is it the end of the Republic? No.

What this should motivate everyone to do is:

a) get involved.
b) make a peaceful rukus with your elected reps.
b) vote.


Doompilling doesn't win a thing. Smart action does. We have a great collection of minds here, let's put them to use?
 

BlackDragon98

Freikorps Kommandant
Banned - Politics
Don't the blue helmets tend to operate very poorly in actual combat conditions.

Warcrimes against helpless civilians yes any one who can fight back not so much.
Hey, free stuff!

All those helmets and gear needs is a new owner and in the case of the helmets, a fresh coat of paint!
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
map in question

p-1-try-to-impeach-this-original.gif



Does the blue look defensable to you?

Like I said last time this got brought up.

All the pissed grillbros have to do is stop sending food and medicine to the cities and the bug men will collapse in a matter of months.

Any second ACW results in half the population of every major city dead or dying from starvation and our end as a major world player for a generation.

The left doesn't win that,

No one really does.

Any way what Curtis and Sunhaek said 100%

Now is the time to uncuck the right at the ballot box and using lawfare and public pressure.

Also what Steven Crowder said.

Alienate every fed you know, ignore them, shun them. Refuse to serve them at your businesses.

Print fliers in your neighborhood decrying them etc.


...how do you flush documents down a toilet?🤔


A tenant of mine took to flushing her alimony checks down the toilet after depositing it via phone (no idea why she didn't just physically deposit the checks or use venmo but whatever.) She also flushed anything she printed out that she didn't need.

So it can be done.

But it absolutely fucks your plumbing beyond any recognition. Flushing that many documents would be worse than trying to flush diapers.

So that's bullshit, the FBI would have had ample evidence because half the mansion would have been the mouth of a river of sewage :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
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