• Attention All Comstar Customers, Due to unexpected interference by suspected Word of Blake operatives, the HPG systems update was *not* successful. No data was lost due to our careful and extensive backups; however, we will need to try again next weekend. Sincerely, Comstar Precentor Dune

Breaking News FBI raids Trump's Mar-a-Largo Resort home

Wargamer08

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2020
Reaction score
2,203
To be fair, a couple people I know with some more knowledge of government procedure and law agree that this does not demonstrate anything beyond Biden requesting the documents.

It could mean that he was aware of the whole thing, which the press secretary specifically said he wasn't.

Even if it doesn't mean that, at absolute best it means that Biden has no effective leash on a rampant FBI, and more likely means much worse things.
What, are people are thinking this is some sort of will not someone rid me of this turbulent Trump moment? I mean it's possible I guess, I just think corruption all the way to the top is more likely then an overly helpful FBI being overzealous in interpreting Biden's requests.
 

Megadeath

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2020
Reaction score
1,487
We have already established that your not an American citizen. Have you ever considered that you don't know what your talking about on this issue.?
When you say "We have already established" you mean I told you, yeah? It's not some deep secret you discovered through brilliant detective work. That aside, perhaps you'd care to explain what, if anything, my nationality, citizenship, place of birth or current geographical location could possibly have to do with basic comprehension skills?

Have you ever considered, simply being American does not in fact make you either inherently smarter nor even more knowledgeable on matters of American law or politics?

Also *you're. If you're going to try and lecture me on English comprehension, learn to at least use the language properly.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 14, 2020
Reaction score
6,801
That doesn't actually read as Biden ordering the operation. Just as him requesting the documents. Which, as the new president he was absolutely in his right to do.
When you say "We have already established" you mean I told you, yeah? It's not some deep secret you discovered through brilliant detective work. That aside, perhaps you'd care to explain what, if anything, my nationality, citizenship, place of birth or current geographical location could possibly have to do with basic comprehension skills?

Have you ever considered, simply being American does not in fact make you either inherently smarter nor even more knowledgeable on matters of American law or politics?

Also *you're. If you're going to try and lecture me on English comprehension, learn to at least use the language properly.
You're being pretty condescending, for someone who clearly didn't read the actual cited text. (Additionally, you conflate neat spelling with legal knowledge, which seems like a bit of a stretch. I say that as somone with dyslexia and a doctoral degree.)

The fact is, @Cherico is correct, and you are actually misreading the cited text. Let me quote it here, without the (perhaps confusing) page break and footnotes in-between:


NARA informed Plaintiff that it would proceed with "provid[ing] the FBI access to the records in question, as requested by the incumbent President, beginning as early as Tuesday, May 12, 2022."


Notice the date, here: May 12th. Note, then, that Mar-A-Lago was raided August 8th. You may also observe that the sentence does not, in fact, imply that "the incumbent President" [Joe Biden] requested access to the documents [seized in the raid] for himself, post facto, as you seem to think. Read again. The sentence states that Joe Biden requested that the FBI be given access to the documents [to be seized], a priori.

Biden requested that the FBI be given special access to those documents, in the context of preparing the raid. From this, it may reasonably be surmised that Biden either instigated the raid, or was actively abetting the FBI in setting it up. Either way, his protestations of innocence -- the claim that he had no advance knowledge of the raid -- becomes extremely dubious with this revelation.

After all, the only possible third alternative to the above is that Biden is in the habit of providing the FBI with access to specific documents, without even being aware why access is being requested. Which would absolve him of abuse of power (in this case, at least), but would consequently mean that he's indeed just an anthropomorphic rubber stamp for now largely unchecked executive agencies...


In conclusion: your eagerness to jump to the defence of Joe Biden and his supposed virtue is no doubt inspired by your humanistic impulses -- but at least in this instance, it is also sorely misguided; because, in the end, your lecturing of others notwithstanding, you still didn't actually read the cited text properly. It doesn't say what you thought it said.
 
Last edited:

Megadeath

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2020
Reaction score
1,487
You're being pretty condescending, for someone who clearly didn't read the actual cited text. (Additionally, you conflate neat spelling with legal knowledge, which seems like a bit of a stretch. I say that as somone with dyslexia and a doctoral degree.)

The fact is, @Cherico is correct, and you are actually misreading the cited text. Let me quote it here, without the (perhaps confusing) page break and footnotes in-between:


NARA informed Plaintiff that it would proceed with "provid[ing] the FBI access to the records in question, as requested by the incumbent President, beginning as early as Tuesday, May 12, 2022."


Notice the date, here: May 12th. Note, then, that Mar-A-Lago was raided August 8th. You may also observe that the sentence does not, in fact, imply that "the incumbent President" [Joe Biden] requested access to the documents [seized in the raid] for himself, post facto, as you seem to think. Read again. The sentence states that Joe Biden requested that the FBI be given access to the documents [to be seized], a priori.

Biden requested that the FBI be given special access to those documents, in the context of preparing the raid. From this, it may reasonably be surmised that Biden either instigated the raid, or was actively abetting the FBI in setting it up. Either way, his protestations of innocence -- the claim that he had no advance knowledge of the raid -- becomes extremely dubious with this revelation.

After all, the only possible third alternative to the above is that Biden is in the habit of providing the FBI with access to specific documents, without even being aware why access is being requested. Which would absolve him of abuse of power (in this case, at least), but would consequently mean that he's indeed just an anthropomorphic rubber stamp for now largely unchecked executive agencies...


In conclusion: your eagerness to jump to the defence of Joe Biden and his supposed virtue is no doubt inspired by your humanistic impulses -- but at least in this instance, it is also sorely misguided; because, in the end, your lecturing of others notwithstanding, you still didn't actually read the cited text properly. It doesn't say what you thought it said.
I will admit that I was indeed being condescending, but I'd maintain that the post I was responding to was worthy of condescension. I'd disagree though that I'm conflating spelling with legal understanding. For one, I don't consider using the wrong word a spelling mistake, but for another I don't think I equated them. I simply consider it insulting to have my understanding questioned by someone who's either too lazy or stupid to use language properly.

As for your analysis of the citation, I'm not inclined to argue most of it except your conclusion. My initial point is that the citation does not in fact require or even particularly imply that Biden instigated the raid. It seems you actually agree, since you say yourself that it's also perfectly valid to interpret it as "abetting the FBI in setting it up" and whilst that might be an odd phrasing for him providing the necessary authorisation and clearance for a legal and legitimate action it's accurate enough. I also wouldn't be as quick as you apparently are to dismiss the idea that such action was taken on recommendation with minimal knowledge or input. After all, the president is a busy man and likely required to approve and authorise actions by individuals and agencies on the advice of those agencies and other advisors as a matter of course.

I wouldn't ascribe my actions to any humanistic impulse of goodness, but I wouldn't describe it as any kind of defence of Biden or any virtue he may have. I have no special love for the man after all, and I think you're over reading and projecting assumptions. My two posts simply say that the initial claim that the citation is proof Biden ordered some political hit is wrong, and that Cherico's implicit argument that I can't possibly know or understand the situation as well or better than anyone else, purely based on nationality, is incredibly stupid.
 

strunkenwhite

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 8, 2021
Reaction score
1,660
The fact is, @Cherico is correct, and you are actually misreading the cited text. Let me quote it here, without the (perhaps confusing) page break and footnotes in-between:

NARA informed Plaintiff that it would proceed with "provid[ing] the FBI access to the records in question, as requested by the incumbent President, beginning as early as Tuesday, May 12, 2022."

Notice the date, here: May 12th. Note, then, that Mar-A-Lago was raided August 8th. You may also observe that the sentence does not, in fact, imply that "the incumbent President" [Joe Biden] requested access to the documents [seized in the raid] for himself, post facto, as you seem to think. Read again. The sentence states that Joe Biden requested that the FBI be given access to the documents [to be seized], a priori.

Biden requested that the FBI be given special access to those documents, in the context of preparing the raid. From this, it may reasonably be surmised that Biden either instigated the raid, or was actively abetting the FBI in setting it up. Either way, his protestations of innocence -- the claim that he had no advance knowledge of the raid -- becomes extremely dubious with this revelation.
I agree that your tale is a possible, though strained, reading of the text in the screenshot. However, if you were to go to the actual document in question, I believe you'd find a different account of events, as I did.

Specifically, that the "access" is not in reference to the raid at all, but rather in reference to an earlier, more voluntary handover of documents after which there arose a suspicion that more documents remained at MAL, ultimately leading to the raid.


The sentence beginning at the end of the screenshot: "The Government's filing states that the FBI did not obtain access to the Fifteen Boxes until approximately May 18, 2022." (The Fifteen Boxes being the records in question, as established by the beginning of the same paragraph.)

[edit: 15 boxes that were in the custody of NARA and not even at MAL? NPR ]

To continue, "On May 11, 2022, during the period of ongoing communications between Plaintiff [i.e. Trump] and NARA, and before DOJ received the Fifteen Boxes, DOJ 'obtained a grand jury subpoena, for which Plaintiff's counsel accepted service'. The subpoena was directed to the 'Custodian of Records for the Office of Donald J. Trump' and requested 'any and all documents or writings in the custody or control of Donald J. Trump and/or the Office of Donald J. Trump bearing classification markings'. Plaintiff contacted DOJ on June 2, 2022, and requested that FBI agents visit his residence the following day to pick up responsive documents. Upon the FBI's arrival, Plaintiff's team handed over documents and permitted the three FBI agents and an accompanying DOJ attorney to visit the storage room where the documents were held.

"The Government contends that, after further investigation, 'The FBI uncovered multiple sources of evidence indicating that the response to the May 11 grand jury subpoena was incomplete,' and that potentially classified documents remained at Plaintiff's residence. Based on this evidence and an affadavit that remains partially under seal, on August 5, 2022, the Government applied to a United States Magistrate Judge for a search and seizure warrant of Plaintiff's residence, citing Title 18, sections 793, 1519, and 2701 of the United States Code. Finding probable cause, the Magistrate Judge authorized law enforcement to (1) search Plaintiff's office, 'all storage rooms, and all other rooms or areas within the premises used or available to be used by Plaintiff and his staff and in which boxes or documents could be stored,' and (2) seize the following: 'any physical documents with classification markings, along with any containers/boxes (including any other contents) in which such documents are located, as well as any other containers/boxes that are collectively stored or found together with the aforementioned documents and containers/boxes'; 'information, including communications in any form, regarding the retrieval, storage, or transmission of national defense information or classified material'; 'any government and/or Presidential records created' during Plaintiff's presidency; or 'any evidence of the knowing alteration, destruction, or concealment of any government and/or Presidential records, or of any documents with classification markings.'

"On August 8, 2022, pursuant to the search warrant, the Government executed an unannounced search of Plaintiff's residence."
 
Last edited:

Terthna

Professional Lurker
Joined
Aug 23, 2019
Reaction score
21,590
Location
Federal Way

The sheer, absolute, complete bold faced lie on this woman. Amazing to see. Bonus points to all the NPCs and 101% real people in the comments agreeing and urging her to run again and how much they love her.
The only reason she gets away with it is because, like the rest of the establishment, she exist within a seemingly-impenetrable echo chamber where nobody would even think to criticize or disagree with her. From her perspective, she is the god of her own little world; and our lot in life is to be her worshipers.
 

Rocinante

Russian Bot
Founder
Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Reaction score
20,308
I would be careful quoting anything from Turley, he tends to be a bit of a grifter and conspiracy nutjob, among other things.
Seriously, this guy is an absolute joke.

Watch my 11 minute video, at the end I'll tell you why this is crumbling!

The end: people don't trust the government.

WOW. what a stunning revelation! Thanks Dr. Turley!
 
Top Bottom