Technology Elon Musk: The Worlds Richest Man

[Blasterbot]

Also, his opinion on remote working is garbage.

eh some jobs can't be done via remote work and some people are not able to separate time out and actually get shit done while working from home. we certainly haven't trained up the workforce to manage it well and it takes a very different skillset than what most offices have.

 

[Agent23]

I'm not fanboying because of twitter. I just think the reeing he is provoking is funny.

He's not an idol. Not to me, at least. He's just a guy who has run some incredibly successful companies, made some cool inventions, nd will continue to do so.

He has been successful because of branding, mostly.
He had some part to play in PayPal, but saying he invented something is far from the truth.

Most of his ventures were not that spectacular, they got rocketed to the top by cheap money, in paypal's case a dot com bubble and him managing to persuade NASA and the Pentagon to bankroll SpaceX.

Nothing he has created is that revolutionary, in fact Teslas are a pretty stupid piece of hypster bait that constantly under deliver.

What he did with SpaceX, while still government funded bullshit, was a ton less cronyist than what was their before. Previously, it was funded via what are called Cost Plus contracts, where the contractors would run up prices because their profits were a percentage of the costs paid to produce it. Musk pioneered the buy a ticket system, where instead the US now just buys a ticket, which means that decreasing costs remains an incentive. So he dodges the two worst parts of the MIL: that you are producing weapons to be used against innocents, and the cost plus contract. I'm not saying it's perfect or even good, I'm saying it's a ton less bad than it was.

Cleanest dirty shirt in the washing machine in SpaceX's case.

The one thing he did well were reusable first stages, IMHO.

But cleanest dirty shirt or not, he has been the beneficiary of a lot of government pork in multiple ways.

Let us not forget that his main project, Tesla has:

Not met expectations repeatedly.

Made money on carbon credits and because people are forced by government to buy electric cars.

Much of the sales were also boosted by hype and green hysteria and the personality cult around Musk.

Autopilot, anyone?

He is neither hank Rearden nor John Galt.

 

[Zachowon]

Space X is doing better then NASA amd Amazon's stuff

 

[Abhorsen]

Cleanest dirty shirt in the washing machine in SpaceX's case.

The one thing he did well were reusable first stages, IMHO.

Making a reliable company that can send stuff to space is a huge improvement in general. Calling him just the cleanest dirty shirt is underselling what he did. His actions drastically reduced the amount of graft and corruption enabled by NASA, and are things I'd like to see replicated everywhere the government spends money. Now would I prefer the government just not have NASA at all, and just instead not spend the money? Yes! But I'm still going to take the win of drastically reducing corruption that Musk did by privatizing space. The US government is less cronyist because of SpaceX.

In contrast, Tesla's electric vehicle tax credit is bullshit as fuck, totally agree.

 

[Bear Ribs]

He has been successful because of branding, mostly.
He had some part to play in PayPal, but saying he invented something is far from the truth.

Most of his ventures were not that spectacular, they got rocketed to the top by cheap money, in paypal's case a dot com bubble and him managing to persuade NASA and the Pentagon to bankroll SpaceX.

Nothing he has created is that revolutionary, in fact Teslas are a pretty stupid piece of hypster bait that constantly under deliver.


Cleanest dirty shirt in the washing machine in SpaceX's case.

The one thing he did well were reusable first stages, IMHO.

But cleanest dirty shirt or not, he has been the beneficiary of a lot of government pork in multiple ways.

Let us not forget that his main project, Tesla has:

Not met expectations repeatedly.

Made money on carbon credits and because people are forced by government to buy electric cars.

Much of the sales were also boosted by hype and green hysteria and the personality cult around Musk.

Autopilot, anyone?

He is neither hank Rearden nor John Galt.

Cleanest Dirty Shirt in the Washing Machine is as good as it gets in real life. John Galt and Hank Rearden are fictional characters, they succeed only by author fiat.

The things you're dismissing as snake oil are the best in the world. SpaceX? It's the best space launch in the world. The autopilot you're sneering at? Teslas have both the first and second places on the list of best autopilots in the world.

You're basically demanding superhuman perfection here. Which, I suppose, is fine if you think Musk is secretly Jesus Christ returned in the flesh but I don't believe that's the prevailing opinion.

 

[Agent23]

Cleanest Dirty Shirt in the Washing Machine is as good as it gets in real life. John Galt and Hank Rearden are fictional characters, they succeed only by author fiat.

The things you're dismissing as snake oil are the best in the world. SpaceX? It's the best space launch in the world. The autopilot you're sneering at? Teslas have both the first and second places on the list of best autopilots in the world.

You're basically demanding superhuman perfection here. Which, I suppose, is fine if you think Musk is secretly Jesus Christ returned in the flesh but I don't believe that's the prevailing opinion.

He managed to muscle in on the grift of the likes of Boeing through connections of his own and to get in something cheaper, big lol.

As to the autopilot:
Another Alleged Tesla Autopilot Failure Raises Questions On Tesla Training System
There's Been Another Major Tesla Autopilot Failure
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...appens-when-tesla-autopilot-fails-177137.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/06/15/tesla-autopilot-crashes/

 

[Bear Ribs]

He managed to muscle in on the grift of the likes of Boeing through connections of his own and to get in something cheaper, big lol.

As to the autopilot:
Another Alleged Tesla Autopilot Failure Raises Questions On Tesla Training System
There's Been Another Major Tesla Autopilot Failure
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...appens-when-tesla-autopilot-fails-177137.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/06/15/tesla-autopilot-crashes/

Yes, of course there're failures, this is an emerging technology that's the absolute cutting edge. It's still the best on the planet, and you're still demanding absolute perfection from a mere human.

 

[Abhorsen]

He managed to muscle in on the grift of the likes of Boeing through connections of his own and to get in something cheaper, big lol.

He did, but his grift is orders of magnitudes less than Boeings. It's a huge net positive.

 

[S'task]

. . . Do people not remember that prior to Space-X US space launch capacity was basically gone?

As in, the US could not launch rockets into space anymore. The massive US telecom industry that is the backbone of worldwide communication was constantly launching using old RUSSIAN rockets. NASA had completely fucked up through the 1990s, 00, and 10s, they'd poured millions into the shuttle which was often a hanger queen and was more expensive on a per launch basis than throw away rockets, they'd failed to even develop a replacement for the shuttle, which should have been started back in the 1990s AT THE LATEST. Domestic launch capabilities were basically completely fucked and the US telecom industry was starting to seriously worry as many private companies were basically beholden to Russia...

And then Space-X basically reinvigorated the entire domestic launch industry and spurred what was a dead sector back to life. And yes, of COURSE it involved Federal government money. Telecom has ALWAYS been deeply involved with the Federal government. The US Federal government coordinates who gets to put satellites in what orbits, for instance, and since the cold war, rocketry and the US government were closely linked for obvious reasons. As such, OF COURSE Musk was going to be involved in government contracts for these thing. This isn't a matter of cronyism or corruption, it's that the US government is a major customer FOR satellite launch and that everything involved in launching involved government regulatory authority at various points for good reasons...

 

[King Krávoka]

Cuthroat grifting is nothing compared to nazism. This is not what-about-ism, our Nazi scientists were forgiven for bringing American rockets into space. Anyone has to retroactively denounce the United States space program if they want to be consistent in saying that SpaceX is not worth having Elon Musk in a position of (social and financial) power.

 

[bintananth]

Cuthroat grifting is nothing compared to nazism. This is not what-about-ism, our Nazi scientists were forgiven for bringing American rockets into space. Anyone has to retroactively denounce the United States space program if they want to be consistent in saying that SpaceX is not worth having Elon Musk in a position of (social and financial) power.

The greatest skill people like Elon Musk have isn't "I can do this". It's "I know how to find someone who can."

 

[Agent23]

Yes, of course there're failures, this is an emerging technology that's the absolute cutting edge. It's still the best on the planet, and you're still demanding absolute perfection from a mere human.

Uh, huh.
https://www.ruaviation.com/news/2018/10/3/12074/?h

The basic price to launch Russia’s Soyuz-2.1 carrier rocket with the Fregat booster will stand at about $48.5 million, the Russian launch service provider, Glavkosmos Launch Services, has said.


"On the first day of the International Astronautical Congress in Bremen, our team announced the basic price to launch a Soyuz-2.1 carrier rocket with the Fregat booster. It comes to $48.5 million," the company said in a statement, posted on Facebook.


The launch of the Soyuz-2.1 without the Fregat booster would cost about $35 million.


"Therefore, the delivery of 1 kg of cargo by a Soyuz-2 rocket will cost $20,000-30,000… which is below the average market price," the statement reads.


Roscosmos (Russia’s state space corporation) CEO, Dmitry Rogozin, said on October 1 that SpaceX CEO Elon Musk quoted knock-down prices on launches of his spacecraft at $40-60 million to squeeze Russia out of the space market. The Russian official described the approach as "pure dumping," adding that SpaceX receives $150 million for one launch from the Pentagon.

So sounds like he got a lot of under the table subsidies from various alphabet agencies and the US military.

I guess we will have to wait and see what happens, but I am skeptical of the long term viability of some of Musk's projects.
Like first stage reusability, for instance, but only time will tell if that was a good idea or not.

. . . Do people not remember that prior to Space-X US space launch capacity was basically gone?

As in, the US could not launch rockets into space anymore. The massive US telecom industry that is the backbone of worldwide communication was constantly launching using old RUSSIAN rockets. NASA had completely fucked up through the 1990s, 00, and 10s, they'd poured millions into the shuttle which was often a hanger queen and was more expensive on a per launch basis than throw away rockets, they'd failed to even develop a replacement for the shuttle, which should have been started back in the 1990s AT THE LATEST. Domestic launch capabilities were basically completely fucked and the US telecom industry was starting to seriously worry as many private companies were basically beholden to Russia...

And then Space-X basically reinvigorated the entire domestic launch industry and spurred what was a dead sector back to life. And yes, of COURSE it involved Federal government money. Telecom has ALWAYS been deeply involved with the Federal government. The US Federal government coordinates who gets to put satellites in what orbits, for instance, and since the cold war, rocketry and the US government were closely linked for obvious reasons. As such, OF COURSE Musk was going to be involved in government contracts for these thing. This isn't a matter of cronyism or corruption, it's that the US government is a major customer FOR satellite launch and that everything involved in launching involved government regulatory authority at various points for good reasons...

It is your own government's fault for letting Boeing and Lockheed and NASA screw the pooch where launch capacity is concerned.
Like throwing billions at boondoggles like the Space Shuttle for instance.

You were also happy to pay Roskosmos to launch stuff for you.

 

[bintananth]

It is your own government's fault for letting Boeing and Lockheed and NASA screw the pooch where launch capacity is concerned.
Like throwing billions at boondoggles like the Space Shuttle for instance.

You were also happy to pay Roskosmos to launch stuff for you.

A Soyuz rocket launch has a pricetag of about $80 million US. The Space Shuttle had a pricetag of "Yes."

 

[Agent23]

A Soyuz rocket launch has a pricetag of about $80 million US. The Space Shuttle had a pricetag of "Yes."

But muh recycling and muh reusability...

The Greens need to get some of the blame for all of this, too.

Also, I kinda have the feeling that the USA's little attempt at reusability soured a lot of people on the idea.

Anyway, according to latest news the price tag will be under 50 million now, thanks to increased competition.

Angara's cost is also dropping.

TASS reports that Russia plans to cut the price of its Angara launch vehicle from seven to four billion rubles ($100.3 to $57.3 million) by 2024.

The high cost price of the latest Angara carrier rocket before the start of its serial production is due to the need for the Khrunichev Space Center to work at two sites, the press office of the State Space Corporation Roscosmos told TASS on Monday.
“Before the production process is fully moved to the site of the Polyot company in Omsk, the Khrunichev Space Center has to work at two production sites, which creates additional overhead costs,” a Roscosmos spokesman said.
As part of its trials, the Angara rocket is being produced singly instead of serially, he said.
“After the serial full-cycle production is launched, the item’s cost price will decrease,” the spokesman said.

Also, for launching from the USA is better than from Russia since it is closer to the equator, and the fact that the Western Atlantic and the Caribbean are a de facto US lake probably makes it easier to retrieve reusable first stages, too, so we need to account for those tailwinds and for Musk getting to use existing launch infrastructure and even more subsidies on various levels.
So even geography is helping Musk, I am surprised why he hasn't tried to rent out Korou.

IMHO we europeans have the best launch site but our rockets are overpriced because France ESA just didn't provide enough money for Ariane to see reusable stages as financially bebeficial, too.

 

[Captain X]

Honestly it's just as entertaining to see you try to bash on Musk as it is to watch the Leftists do it.

 

[Agent23]

Honestly it's just as entertaining to see you try to bash on Musk as it is to watch the Leftists do it.

I am bashing on him from a rightwing perspective because I see him as a crony capitalist, narcissist grifter obsessed with pushing his own brand and as an occasional false populist, possibly a puppet for some segments of the deep state that want to reform the old grifting MIC into something that maybe grifts less or that just see that the overpriced solutions the current MIC produces are not fit for purpose.

I also think that most of his ventures are massively over-hyped.

I also think that he is a very slippery PR whore and that his views on remote work are total bullshit.

 

[Rocinante]

I am bashing on him from a rightwing perspective because I see him as a crony capitalist, narcissist grifter obsessed with pushing his own brand and as an occasional false populist, possibly a puppet for some segments of the deep state that want to reform the old grifting MIC into something that maybe grifts less or that just see that the overpriced solutions the current MIC produces are not fit for purpose.

I also think that most of his ventures are massively over-hyped.

I also think that he is a very slippery PR whore and that his views on remote work are total bullshit.

You're just repeating the left's talking points though. You sound just like one of them.

The only thing missing is "he could have solved world hunger, but bought twitter instead. "

 

[Agent23]

You're just repeating the left's talking points though. You sound just like one of them.

The only thing missing is "he could have solved world hunger, but bought twitter instead. "

Yeah, sure, if you are losing call your enemy a lefty.

 

[Rocinante]

Yeah, sure, if you are losing call your enemy a lefty.

I don't think the ones defending Musk are the ones losing, and if I didn't know you, I would actually think you're one of the Musk hating lefties, because you literally are just repeating their talking points.

 

[Agent23]

I don't think the ones defending Musk are the ones losing, and if I didn't know you, I would actually think you're one of the Musk hating lefties, because you literally are just repeating their talking points.

Ok dude, how often do leftists criticize somebody for being a crony capitalist?

How often do people on the leftist/liberal side criticize the various Silicon Valley tech moghuls?

How often do they criticize the MIC?

How often do they criticize people who do massive amounts of virtue signalling?

How often do they criticize governmnet for putting in place stupid green regulations that make insiders rich?

How often do they criticize electric cars?

Your allegation that I am "like the leftoids/libtards" is bullshit.