Technology Elon Musk: The Worlds Richest Man

[Arch Dornan]

He's all of them IMO.

 

[bintananth]

Musk has underdelivered on a bunch of things like the Tesla autopilot.
Tesla became as big as it is because of hype and carbon credits and government mandates.
He is a massively overblown and a snake oil salesman, IMO.

Snake oil salesmen don't deliver on their promises.

He does.

 

[Agent23]

Snake oil salesmen don't deliver on their promises.

He does.

Occasionally, not always, not on the most moonshoty ones.

 

[Rocinante]

Occasionally, not always, not on the most moonshoty ones.

I mean, most famous inventors that we look back on, have a pretty large inventory of failed inventions, along with the big ones that made them famous.

Elon launched a massive electric car fleet, worldwide satellite internet, and several rocket models that are being used with more to come.

So I'm not that concerned that not all his ideas have played out. Most won't. The ones that do are a pretty big deal.

 

[bintananth]

I mean, most famous inventors that we look back on, have a pretty large inventory of failed inventions, along with the big ones that made them famous.

Elon launched a massive electric car fleet, worldwide satellite internet, and several rocket models that are being used with more to come.

So I'm not that concerned that not all his ideas have played out. Most won't. The ones that do are a pretty big deal.

Sir Issac Newton and Albert Einstein are examples of this.

Newton was a tax collecter and Einstein was an office clerk before they became famous.

 

[Agent23]

Closest to an actual inventor I'd put Musk is Edison, who lied, hyperbolized and stole Tesla's ideas.

I see him as a modern day Ivar Kreuger though.

 

[bintananth]

Closest to an actual inventor I'd put Musk is Edison, who lied, hyperbolized and stole Tesla's ideas.

I see him as a modern day Ivar Kreuger though.

He has college degrees in both Physics and Economics. You aren't getting either without passing both Differential Equations and Linear Algebra.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Musk has underdelivered on a bunch of things like the Tesla autopilot.
Tesla became as big as it is because of hype and carbon credits and government mandates.
He is a massively overblown and a snake oil salesman, IMO.

Elon also didn’t actually found Tesla. He did found SpaceX, but it’s fair to point out that SpaceX only got off the ground because Elon was buddies with them NASA director Michael Griffin who approved a grant of almost a billion dollars of taxpayer money before SpaceX had *anything* to actually deliver.

 

[Jormungandr]

Elon also didn’t actually found Tesla. He did found SpaceX, but it’s fair to point out that SpaceX only got off the ground because Elon was buddies with them NASA director Michael Griffin who approved a grant of almost a billion dollars of taxpayer money before SpaceX had *anything* to actually deliver.

In this case, it did work out, though -- Space X's stuff has been a boon to the space industry, so I'd say that was a risk well-rewarded, IMO.

 

[Rocinante]

Elon also didn’t actually found Tesla. He did found SpaceX, but it’s fair to point out that SpaceX only got off the ground because Elon was buddies with them NASA director Michael Griffin who approved a grant of almost a billion dollars of taxpayer money before SpaceX had *anything* to actually deliver.

Yeah, big things cost money. That doesn't discredit the accomplishments.

 

[Agent23]

In this case, it did work out, though -- Space X's stuff has been a boon to the space industry, so I'd say that was a risk well-rewarded, IMO.

And his extensive connections in government and all the contacts he is getting from the Pentagon.

 

[Bear Ribs]

And his extensive connections in government and all the contacts he is getting from the Pentagon.

Every big business has that though. Whether it's banks getting free bailout money they pass to execs, manufacturers getting handed fat stacks of military contracts, or even small local LLCs having connections to the town's sheriff, mayor, and other city fathers, any successful business bigger than a lemonade stand probably has government connections and contacts.

This is basically as significant as saying "X business wouldn't have gotten off the ground if the bank hadn't loaned the startup money." No duh, like every other business ever.

 

[Agent23]

Every big business has that though. Whether it's banks getting free bailout money they pass to execs, manufacturers getting handed fat stacks of military contracts, or even small local LLCs having connections to the town's sheriff, mayor, and other city fathers, any successful business bigger than a lemonade stand probably has government connections and contacts.

This is basically as significant as saying "X business wouldn't have gotten off the ground if the bank hadn't loaned the startup money." No duh, like every other business ever.

Every small business gets backroom financing from the Pentagon to develop cheaper launch systems and a satellite internet that can be given to insurgents or friends of the USA or used by its own covet agents and military?

He also got huge subsidies from Commiefornia, from an old Toyota factory that was given to him for free or almost free to other subsidies and perks.

Germany has done the same, and all of the green bullshit had proven to be yet another subsidy for Tesla.

Here is a true story actually, I am in the UK on business one time, meet the team and that type of bullshit, draw fucking crap with crayons prior to starting out PI, and this old snobbish dude next to me from the other team and an aged Karen are talking about Teslas, he is buying one she wants to buy one.
The only thing he cared for was how much he will save in taxes because of the purchase, not because something made Tesla a better product or because he cared about the environment.

Without handouts and crony capitalism he would be nowhere with those stupid electric cars, w lot of which he actually builds and sells in China and so is beholden to them as well.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Every small business gets backroom financing from the Pentagon to develop cheaper launch systems and a satellite internet that can be given to insurgents or friends of the USA or used by its own covet agents and military?

He also got huge subsidies from Commiefornia, from an old Toyota factory that was given to him for free or almost free to other subsidies and perks.

Yeah sure, add a bit more straw to that man, I totally said small businesses specifically had Pentagon connections.

Germany has done the same, and all of the green bullshit had proven to be yet another subsidy for Tesla.

Here is a true story actually, I am in the UK on business one time, meet the team and that type of bullshit, draw fucki g crap with crayons prior to starting out PI, and this old snobbish dude next to me from the other team and an aged Karen are talking about Teslas, he is buying one she wants to buy one.
The only thing he cared for was how much he will save in taxes because of the purchase, not because something made Tesla a better product or because he cared about the environment.

Without handouts and crony capitalism he would be nowhere with those stupid electric cars, w lot of which he actually builds and sells in China and so is beholden to them as well.

Yes but again, so does every other successful business in the US, that's how business works, and how it's always worked. Heck, even the railroads got, free, ten square miles of land for every mile of track laid as a deal sweetener by the government.

 

[bintananth]

Yes but again, so does every other successful business in the US, that's how business works, and how it's always worked. Heck, even the railroads got, free, ten square miles of land for every mile of track laid as a deal sweetener by the government.

The US also bought a bit of Mexico in the 1850s. That Mississippi River to the California Coast railroad line was completed in the 1880s.

 

[Agent23]

Yeah sure, add a bit more straw to that man, I totally said small businesses specifically had Pentagon connections.

Yes but again, so does every other successful business in the US, that's how business works, and how it's always worked. Heck, even the railroads got, free, ten square miles of land for every mile of track laid as a deal sweetener by the government.

And crony capitalism and snake oil salesmanship is good because it happens often?

 

[Rocinante]

And crony capitalism and snake oil salesmanship is good because it happens often?

It's not chrony capitalism, though.

The government needed something, so they paid a guy to make it.

Now they cant pay just anyone. They have to pay someone who can deliver. That person was Elon Musk, and it worked out.

That's how things work. You need something that you can't produce, you pay someone else to do it.

 

[Agent23]

It's not chrony capitalism, though.

The government needed something, so they paid a guy to make it.

That's how things work.

Yeah, sure, US military procurement is not massively bloated and insider deals are not made and Musk is not one of the beneficiaries.

If he is de fact subsidized and benefits from stupid policies like massive handouts and regulations that force people to buy his shit that makes him a corporate welfare queen.

I appreciate the lulz he is generating with Twitter as much as the next rightwing fan of freedom of speech with no filter, that does not make him a saint, it puts a target on his back, and you who are fanboying him because of Twatter should be ready to get your hopes dashed and your idol demolished.

Also, his opinion on remote working is garbage.

 

[Rocinante]

Yeah, sure, US military procurement is not massively bloated and insider deals are not made and Musk is not one of the beneficiaries.

If he is de fact subsidized and benefits from stupid policies like massive handouts and regulations that force people to buy his shit that makes him a corporate welfare queen.

I appreciate the lulz he is generating with Twitter as much as the next rightwing fan of freedom of speech with no filter, that does not make him a saint, it puts a target on his back, and you who are fanboying him because of Twatter should be ready to get your hopes dashed and your idol demolished.

Also, his opinion on remote working is garbage.

I'm not fanboying because of twitter. I just think the reeing he is provoking is funny.

He's not an idol. Not to me, at least. He's just a guy who has run some incredibly successful companies, made some cool inventions, nd will continue to do so.

He is no more than that, to me. I have no personal feelings toward him one way or the other.

 

[Abhorsen]

Yeah, sure, US military procurement is not massively bloated and insider deals are not made and Musk is not one of the beneficiaries.

If he is de fact subsidized and benefits from stupid policies like massive handouts and regulations that force people to buy his shit that makes him a corporate welfare queen.

What he did with SpaceX, while still government funded bullshit, was a ton less cronyist than what was their before. Previously, it was funded via what are called Cost Plus contracts, where the contractors would run up prices because their profits were a percentage of the costs paid to produce it. Musk pioneered the buy a ticket system, where instead the US now just buys a ticket, which means that decreasing costs remains an incentive. So he dodges the two worst parts of the MIL: that you are producing weapons to be used against innocents, and the cost plus contract. I'm not saying it's perfect or even good, I'm saying it's a ton less bad than it was.