'Climate Change' and the coming 'Climate Lockdown'

[bintananth]

New York becomes the first state to ban natural gas stoves and furnaces in most new buildings | CNN

New York is the first state in the country to ban natural gas and other fossil fuels in most new buildings -- a major win for climate advocates, but a move that could spark pushback from fossil fuel interests.

www.cnn.com

New York State Pushes Ahead On Natural Gas Ban

Realizing the legal difficulties in doing so directly, Berkeley adopted an ordinance that banned natural gas infrastructure in new buildings, apparently reasoning that if a direct prohibition of natural gas hookups or usage may be overreaching, outlawing the infrastructure by which gas can even e...

www.forbes.com

Idiots.

Natural gas heat is vastly more efficient and less polluting than electric heat in the grand scheme of things.

A big powerplant is going to top out at about 45% before line losses get included. Gas furnaces? 95%+ for a high-efficiency furnace.

 

[Flintsteel]

Idiots.

Natural gas heat is vastly more efficient and less polluting than electric heat in the grand scheme of things.

A big powerplant is going to top out at about 45% before line losses get included. Gas furnaces? 95%+ for a high-efficiency furnace.

Modern electric heating is not basic resistance strips, but heat pumps. Which can be more efficient than even direct combustion. So your pithy argument isn't actually valid, because most sane people aren't talking about resistive heat these days (because resistive heat is dumb).

 

[mrttao]

Idiots.

Natural gas heat is vastly more efficient and less polluting than electric heat in the grand scheme of things.

A big powerplant is going to top out at about 45% before line losses get included. Gas furnaces? 95%+ for a high-efficiency furnace.

It is about keeping the peasants poor and debased. not about the environment

 

[bintananth]

Modern electric heating is not basic resistance strips, but heat pumps. Which can be more efficient than even direct combustion. So your pithy argument isn't actually valid, because most sane people aren't talking about resistive heat these days (because resistive heat is dumb).

Heat pumps move heat from someplace cold to someplace hot. If you compare only the electricity a heat pump consumes when its running to a gas furnace it's a great "green" solution.

Toss in everything it takes to generate that electricity and they lose a lot of their luster.

 

[mrttao]

Modern electric heating is not basic resistance strips, but heat pumps.

I have heard of heat pumps... don't think I ever seen one.
It costs ~10k$ to install... and apparently it is quite complicated so many installers install it improperly.

Heat Pump System Installation Process from Start to Finish

A brand new heat pump can be an integral part of any HVAC system. An expert installation can help it heat and cool for years and years. We cover installation steps and why each is important.

indoortemp.com

The installation process for a new heat pump is complicated. It’s not a case where HVAC contractors can disconnect some wires from your old unit, put a new one in its place, reattach the wires and be on their way.

What’s disturbing is the fact that many HVAC contractors don’t know all the steps that should be part of a good installation. It’s easy to cut corners so that a heat pump runs “good enough.” But “good enough” often means losing thousands of dollars in energy costs over the life of your system, frequent service calls, and decreased comfort for you and your family. It may also mean a shorter lifespan for your heat pump.

All told, 90% of all HVAC systems are installed incorrectly. That means the odds are good that your shiny new heat pump is either the wrong size or the wiring is haphazard.

that figure of 90% comes from USA government.

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2018/06/f53/bto-ResidentialHVACLitReview-06-2018.pdf

Existing research dating back to the mid-1990s and continuing through 2016 indicate that 70-90% of AC/HP
systems in homes have at least one performance-compromising fault incurred at installation or due to inadequate
maintenance. When duct leakage is considered, these rates rise to 90-100%.

 

[Scottty]

I have heard of heat pumps... don't think I ever seen one.
It costs ~10k$ to install... and apparently it is quite complicated so many installers install it improperly.

And there you have the point that matters. As others have said, this is not about the environment. This is talking about the environment, with an underlying quite blatant "all for us rich people, the rest of you go away and die" subtext.

 

[Rocinante]

Yeah...

Honestly, I'm starting to wonder if there's anything akin to an "Ecological Disasters and Their Consequences" thread around here? I know about the US Train Derailments thread, but in the interest of not cluttering up that one with news of disasters abroad, maybe I should start a new thread (assuming we don't already have one up).

Not every thing needs a mega thread. I hate mega threads. Make a new thread if there's a major disaster so people don't need to scroll through 300 pages to find current news on things.

 

[Bigking321]

I wouldn't mind a mega thread that just listed ecological disasters as they happened or something like that. Just as long as it’s not a containment thread and another thread could be made to talk about individual incidents as merited.

 

[Typhonis]

We have such a thread, BigKing.

 

[Zyobot]

Not every thing needs a mega thread. I hate mega threads. Make a new thread if there's a major disaster so people don't need to scroll through 300 pages to find current news on things.

No, thanks.

Actually, @Typhonis already started it before I could. You don’t need to visit if you don’t want to, though.

 

[bintananth]

And there you have the point that matters. As others have said, this is not about the environment. This is talking about the environment, with an underlying quite blatant "all for us rich people, the rest of you go away and die" subtext.

Those fighting the war on end-user CO2​ emissions don't care about the big picture environmental impact which includes all the other polution, waste, and environmental disruption which comes along for the ride when you try to make everything all-electric.

If they did they'd be calling for stuff like:
- Hydro-electric at every waterfall where it's practical (or adding more at places like Niagra Falls).
- More nuclear powerplants.
- Hydrazine (N2​H4​) with enough just enough methanol (CH3​OH) or ethanol (C2​H5​OH) added to get the freezing point down followed by scrubbing the NOx​ from the exhaust instead of burning gasoline/kerosene/diesel/bunker oil.*
- More geothermal wherever it makes sense.
- District heat and chilled water in dense urban areas to get rid of the bajillion heat pumps (and the associated halogonated hydrocarbon refrigerants) they're currently calling for.

* A bonus here: this is miscible with water so fancy fire suppression chemicals aren't needed.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

999/1000 people of power who rant about 'muh climate change' owns beachside property.
Now seeing as savvy business types don't like assets that are going to combust (or rather, flood), this tells you everything you need to know.

 

[Doomsought]

- Hydrazine (N2H4) with enough just enough methanol (CH3OH) or ethanol (C2H5OH) added to get the freezing point down followed by scrubbing the NOx from the exhaust instead of burning gasoline/kerosene/diesel/bunker oil.*

While an excellent power source, hydrazine is incredibly toxic. Gasoline realy is a super chemical with how it is both energy dense and incredibly safe.

 

[bintananth]

While an excellent power source, hydrazine is incredibly toxic. Gasoline realy is a super chemical with how it is both energy dense and incredibly safe.

Hydrazine is also very expensive. Per the DoD for FY2020: "We'll pay $89/lb."

There's a reason it's not used as fuel for practically anything but a rocket motor.

 

[49ersfootball]

Prepare for the Coming "Climate Lockdowns"

Prepare for the Coming "Climate Lockdowns"

Robert Wenzel

www.economicpolicyjournal.com

These Climate Freaks are getting on the nerves of Middle America.

 

[DarthOne]

These Climate Freaks are getting on the nerves of Middle America.

Maybe; but will they do anything about it?

 

[Marduk]

Where's the police and why do random drivers have to do its job?

 

[Culsu]

Where's the police and why do random drivers have to do its job?

They are standing by because these guys (the "protestors") are the ideological footsoldiers of the elite.

 

[DarthOne]

They are standing by because these guys (the "protestors") are the ideological footsoldiers of the elite.

It’s Weimar all over again.

 

[Zyobot]

Where's the police and why do random drivers have to do its job?

Recall video of this happening in Italy a year or two back, too.

Guess more people across more nations are starting to feel the same way?