Important Civility Rules Enforcement

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Xilizhra

Well-known member
Keep in mind that in the UK cops aid and abet child sex trafficking, looking the other way while little girls are groomed, raped, and abused while at the same time intimidating concerned citizens into silence or even arresting them for supposed “hate speech” if they try to shine light onthis issue.

Anybody heard of Rotherham?

We’re at the point, I’d say, that opposing fighting back against the police is an extreme hateful position, not the reverse.

Though, expressing extreme positions isn’t the same as incivility is it? In the modern UK, the moderate civil position is that it should be legal for Muslim immigrants to rape little girls. The extreme, hateful, Nazi position is that it should be illegal and severely punished.

It may seem like I am pulling Rotherham’s groom gang scandal out of nowhere but I think it directly ties into this topic. People would say that banning or at least shunning “hate speech” is just common decency and does no harm. Well, it does do harm, it protects child rapists in Britain, and that is just one town in one country. Sometimes the truth offends people, some people find good ideas to be hateful, and when ideas are silenced (with force or not) then we blind ourselves and others to real problems.

So, is it better not to insult or offend people? Sure. Don’t offend people any more than you need to, though sometimes you need to when you tell the truth. Some people are worse than others and pointing that out can seem quite offensive, yet it is still true.

So, I’d error on the side of encouraging thick skin. Maybe someone is an asshole to you, get over it, move on. Console yourself in the knowledge that either their insults are baseless, in which case it shouldn’t trouble you in the slightest, or they are saying something true that offends you in which case maybe you should listen even if it makes you uncomfortable.
The problem with that, of course, is that actual legal trouble could come down on the head of the site. It's not just a moral question, because advocating murdering police is not something that most states would look kindly upon.
 

ShieldWife

Marchioness
The problem with that, of course, is that actual legal trouble could come down on the head of the site. It's not just a moral question, because advocating murdering police is not something that most states would look kindly upon.
That is a very reasonable concern. I don’t think that any of the statements being discussed were illegal, but if that is an issue then of course the site has to ban such sentiments to avoid being punished themselves.
 

Jormungandr

The Midgard Wyrm
Founder
Keep in mind that in the UK cops aid and abet child sex trafficking, looking the other way while little girls are groomed, raped, and abused while at the same time intimidating concerned citizens into silence or even arresting them for supposed “hate speech” if they try to shine light onthis issue.
[...]
No, certain higher-ups and politicians helped collude to hide Rotheram for fear of being called racist over what was going on. The "grunts", so to speak, had zero idea, and those that did have an inkling were basically told to "STFU or lose your career".

He advocated for the "grunts" to be killed for trying to enforce stupid Corona laws. So, I sincerely say "fuck him", the twat deserved a kick [up the ass] from the staff. It's no better than some AntiFa cunt in the US shrieking that all cops, every cop should be shot for trying to enforce the law. Additionally, unlike in the US, we don't have issues with our police on the whole -- only the more corrupt higher-ups that were pretty much given those positions out of nepotism than actually rising through the ranks properly.

American police issues are non-issues/non-existent for us. That worldview/narrative doesn't apply, just like how racism towards Mexicans or blacks doesn't apply here and how racism towards Eastern Europeans doesn't apply over there.
 

JagerIV

Well-known member
Your telling us not to worry about double standards, but in this very thread were already seeing it. Shane got banned for jokingly calling Lord Hitler, but Barcle seriously slandered me and another as Nazis and is being treated as the one on the right side of the issue.

If shane crossed a line, then so has barcle and anchovy by literally calling people Nazi.

Now, weve been able to previously deal with such rediculous by mocking their redicoulsness, but if the forms desire is to have such slander felt with by mod crackdown, then we will fight it as mod informant battle.

But you are giving very mixed messages on this.
 

Xilizhra

Well-known member
Your telling us not to worry about double standards, but in this very thread were already seeing it. Shane got banned for jokingly calling Lord Hitler, but Barcle seriously slandered me and another as Nazis and is being treated as the one on the right side of the issue.

If shane crossed a line, then so has barcle and anchovy by literally calling people Nazi.

Now, weve been able to previously deal with such rediculous by mocking their redicoulsness, but if the forms desire is to have such slander felt with by mod crackdown, then we will fight it as mod informant battle.

But you are giving very mixed messages on this.
I would argue that there are some very large differences between political invective and racial/sexual etc. Calling you a Nazi might not be accurate, much as how calling me a Marxist-Leninist wouldn't be, but I would not categorize that as a slur.
 
D

Deleted member 1

Guest
Your telling us not to worry about double standards, but in this very thread were already seeing it. Shane got banned for jokingly calling Lord Hitler, but Barcle seriously slandered me and another as Nazis and is being treated as the one on the right side of the issue.

If shane crossed a line, then so has barcle and anchovy by literally calling people Nazi.

Now, weve been able to previously deal with such rediculous by mocking their redicoulsness, but if the forms desire is to have such slander felt with by mod crackdown, then we will fight it as mod informant battle.

But you are giving very mixed messages on this.

I don't see an open report on a post in which Bacle calls you a Nazi.
 
D

Deleted member 1

Guest
I would argue that there are some very large differences between political invective and racial/sexual etc. Calling you a Nazi might not be accurate, much as how calling me a Marxist-Leninist wouldn't be, but I would not categorize that as a slur.

They're actually under different rules. Racial slurs are a 2.a violation, more serious; falsely accusing someone of being a political extremist is a 2.e violation which resulted in a thread ban and nothing more. We don't use points as a means to control bans here, they're just for reporting among the mods. Again, the 2.e violation resulted in a thread ban. It was the 2.a violations which we stepped on harder.

Shipmaster was hit for a 2.a and then hit for a 2.e while participating in the thread discussing, among other things, the 2.a hit.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
Your telling us not to worry about double standards, but in this very thread were already seeing it. Shane got banned for jokingly calling Lord Hitler, but Barcle seriously slandered me and another as Nazis and is being treated as the one on the right side of the issue.

If shane crossed a line, then so has barcle and anchovy by literally calling people Nazi.

Now, weve been able to previously deal with such rediculous by mocking their redicoulsness, but if the forms desire is to have such slander felt with by mod crackdown, then we will fight it as mod informant battle.

But you are giving very mixed messages on this.
@Unhappy Anchovy did not call you or anyone else on this board a Nazi in his post. Just the opposite.

This is very much the case.

I made a few posts, around when the Sietch started. I later chose to not post here - not because I was afraid of peer pressure, or being criticised by people on SB, but because I felt community norms and expectations here were radicalising in a way that made the site actively unpleasant to be on.

That's not about any other site. I post and have discussions on a number of other sites, not just the ones you're probably familiar with. It is to do with the Sietch itself not being a pleasant place for me to engage. I think courtesy and civility are important, and while in my opinion Zoe takes it too far, there is a minimum necessary standard of politeness for intellectual engagement. That minimum standard is, I would argue, well above the level where you call people 'f----t' or 'c--k'. I am for civility not as just superficial politeness, but civility as a democratic virtue.

I like engaging with diverse and controversial perspectives. I enjoy it and seek it out. But I am not willing to wade through garbage in the hopes of picking out a few gems.

I am encouraged that some staff here realise there was a problem, and that people like me chose to avoid engaging on the Sietch because of it. I hope that things improve.

There are some posters in the thread arguing that this is the thin end of the wedge. I would like to suggest to them that there is in fact room in between /pol/ or /b/, on the one hand, and a highly restrictive left-wing forum that bans any right-of-centre opinions. Conservatism or rightism do not require that you be the lowest common denominator, or that you hurl obscenities at each other. Would, say, Roger Scruton have put up with that sort of behaviour in his presence? No? Then it is clearly possible to be conservative and also well-mannered.

Just in case, a disclaimer: yes, I know I'm one of the dreaded SB staff, and thus officially one of the Bad Guys (tm). If anyone is entertaining any conspiracy theories, don't. I am friends with some of the Sietch staff, but we never discuss Sietch policy and I don't encourage anything behind-the-scenes. What I've said in this post is my personal opinion only.
At worst he said the size was radicalizing and actively unpleasant, which is perhaps debatable but hardly a slur.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
I don't see an open report on a post in which Bacle calls you a Nazi.
Because I didn't Zoe.

He is exaggerating this post:
Jager, I have a PM from another member here that specifically mentions you and Invictus in the title as being people who are tiresome doomspergers.

And that is not the only PM people have opened with me related to the Far-Right being annoying, tiresome, and unappealing to deal with.

You really do not get how much you, Invictus, and others in the far-right drive away moderates and others from this forum, and make people not want to post or simply put you on Ignore.

Part of the reason this place is having PR issues is because people like you don't seem to get how few people want to be in places with a large amount of Far-Right folks dominating the discourse.

Edited for accuracy, due to misremembering a conversation.

It is another case of people putting words in my mouth to try and get my punished, just like what happened on SB. Only this time the attempts are coming from Far-Right people, instead of the Far-Left.
 
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ShieldWife

Marchioness
No, certain higher-ups and politicians helped collude to hide Rotheram for fear of being called racist over what was going on. The "grunts", so to speak, had zero idea, and those that did have an inkling were basically told to "STFU or lose your career".

He advocated for the "grunts" to be killed for trying to enforce stupid Corona laws. So, I sincerely say "fuck him", the twat deserved a kick [up the ass] from the staff. It's no better than some AntiFa cunt in the US shrieking that all cops, every cop should be shot for trying to enforce the law. Additionally, unlike in the US, we don't have issues with our police on the whole -- only the more corrupt higher-ups that were pretty much given those positions out of nepotism than actually rising through the ranks properly.

American police issues are non-issues/non-existent for us. That worldview/narrative doesn't apply, just like how racism towards Mexicans or blacks doesn't apply here and how racism towards Eastern Europeans doesn't apply over there.
Police racism towards blacks and Mexicans isn’t an issue in the USA either, contrary to what the news might say.

As for grunts versus higher ups, yeah the higher ups are certainly a bigger problem, but the grunts still carry out the orders and everybody is morally culpable for what they do even under orders. If someone‘s daughter is being raped, and the parents call for help, it’s a grunt who says ”no.” When someone speaks out against this kind of stuff and gets arrested for hate crimes, it’s the grunt who puts them in cuffs. I’m not saying that people should start fighting the police, but when you have a tyranical government that oppresses the people and if fighting back is justified, then otherwise nice people who ”are just obeying orders” of that tyrannical government might suffer consequences for the choices they make.

Though this isn’t even about civility is it? It’s about making very controversial statements, regardless of how politely those statements are expressed.
 

Emperor Tippy

Merchant of Death
Super Moderator
Staff Member
Founder
Your telling us not to worry about double standards, but in this very thread were already seeing it. Shane got banned for jokingly calling Lord Hitler, but Barcle seriously slandered me and another as Nazis and is being treated as the one on the right side of the issue.

If shane crossed a line, then so has barcle and anchovy by literally calling people Nazi.

Now, weve been able to previously deal with such rediculous by mocking their redicoulsness, but if the forms desire is to have such slander felt with by mod crackdown, then we will fight it as mod informant battle.

But you are giving very mixed messages on this.

The UA issue was a year plus ago and dealt with at the time. As for Bacle calling you a Nazi; Bacle has received a grand total of 8 reports in the past 13 months. None of them were made by you and none of them involved claims of people being a Nazi (or anything close to it).

So if he did call you a Nazi then why didn't you report it? And you are free to go back through your interactions with TS and report the post(s) in question; hell we encourage it as calling others Nazi's really isn't remotely civil or acceptable behavior.

Again, we can't act on what we don't see.
 
D

Deleted member 1

Guest
Police racism towards blacks and Mexicans isn’t an issue in the USA either, contrary to what the news might say.

As for grunts versus higher ups, yeah the higher ups are certainly a bigger problem, but the grunts still carry out the orders and everybody is morally culpable for what they do even under orders. If someone‘s daughter is being raped, and the parents call for help, it’s a grunt who says ”no.” When someone speaks out against this kind of stuff and gets arrested for hate crimes, it’s the grunt who puts them in cuffs. I’m not saying that people should start fighting the police, but when you have a tyranical government that oppresses the people and if fighting back is justified, then otherwise nice people who ”are just obeying orders” of that tyrannical government might suffer consequences for the choices they make.

Though this isn’t even about civility is it? It’s about making very controversial statements, regardless of how politely those statements are expressed.

To our staff there is a firm difference between proclaiming and decrying tyranny and describing in detail how police can be killed. You are, for example, not doing anything wrong. Urabrask did.
 

ShieldWife

Marchioness
To our staff there is a firm difference between proclaiming and decrying tyranny and describing in detail how police can be killed. You are, for example, not doing anything wrong. Urabrask did.
I can buy that, a line does need to be drawn if for no other reason than actual legal concerns. I’m not sure where I would draw the line personally, but I do acknowledge that a forum like the Sietch has to balance the ideals of free speech with legal, logistical, and image concerns.
 

JagerIV

Well-known member
The UA issue was a year plus ago and dealt with at the time. As for Bacle calling you a Nazi; Bacle has received a grand total of 8 reports in the past 13 months. None of them were made by you and none of them involved claims of people being a Nazi (or anything close to it).

So if he did call you a Nazi then why didn't you report it? And you are free to go back through your interactions with TS and report the post(s) in question; hell we encourage it as calling others Nazi's really isn't remotely civil or acceptable behavior.

Again, we can't act on what we don't see.

Because we were operating under the assumption that personal beefs were supposed be solved as a personal issue. If personal fights are supposed to be solved by manipulating the mods, then if thats how you want us to fight, I'll adjust behavior aproprately and fight through the mods.

I'm just making sure that that is in fact how you want fights to be resolved: person to person, or over who can rule lawyer more effectively.

Which way do you want the scales to be weighed? To those who can fight, or those who can more perfectly cry victim?
 

Emperor Tippy

Merchant of Death
Super Moderator
Staff Member
Founder
Because we were operating under the assumption that personal beefs were supposed be solved as a personal issue. If personal fights are supposed to be solved by manipulating the mods, then if thats how you want us to fight, I'll adjust behavior aproprately and fight through the mods.

I'm just making sure that that is in fact how you want fights to be resolved: person to person, or over who can rule lawyer more effectively.

Which way do you want the scales to be weighed? To those who can fight, or those who can more perfectly cry victim?
If you see a post that you believe might violate the rules, report it. You are absolutely free (indeed encouraged) to engage with the post even after reporting it and "solve" the issue as well.

That has zero real impact on what if any actions the staff might choose to take in resolving your report.

If it reaches the point where someone is abusing the report button on sufficient scale/with regularity to the point where the staff view it as an attempt to weaponize us; that will be dealt with then.

So yes, if someone calls you a Nazi we expect you to report it. Especially if you are then going to publicly bitch about "uneven" rules enforcement. Again, we can't interact with what we don't see.
 

Harlock

I should have expected that really
Keep in mind that in the UK cops aid and abet child sex trafficking, looking the other way while little girls are groomed, raped, and abused while at the same time intimidating concerned citizens into silence or even arresting them for supposed “hate speech” if they try to shine light onthis issue.

Anybody heard of Rotherham?

We’re at the point, I’d say, that opposing fighting back against the police is an extreme hateful position, not the reverse.

Though, expressing extreme positions isn’t the same as incivility is it? In the modern UK, the moderate civil position is that it should be legal for Muslim immigrants to rape little girls. The extreme, hateful, Nazi position is that it should be illegal and severely punished.

It may seem like I am pulling Rotherham’s groom gang scandal out of nowhere but I think it directly ties into this topic. People would say that banning or at least shunning “hate speech” is just common decency and does no harm. Well, it does do harm, it protects child rapists in Britain, and that is just one town in one country. Sometimes the truth offends people, some people find good ideas to be hateful, and when ideas are silenced (with force or not) then we blind ourselves and others to real problems.

So, is it better not to insult or offend people? Sure. Don’t offend people any more than you need to, though sometimes you need to when you tell the truth. Some people are worse than others and pointing that out can seem quite offensive, yet it is still true.

So, I’d error on the side of encouraging thick skin. Maybe someone is an asshole to you, get over it, move on. Console yourself in the knowledge that either their insults are baseless, in which case it shouldn’t trouble you in the slightest, or they are saying something true that offends you in which case maybe you should listen even if it makes you uncomfortable.

If people are going to keep pulling that example up then you really should research what the exact situation is, why it happened, how it happened, where responsibility lies and what the actual response has been.

Because the American right wing hot take on it is complete bollocks and trotting it out to defend your politics as an example of the alternative is both utterly dishonest and grossly insulting.

I live quite nearby, my better half as a counsellor has first hand experience dealing with one of the actual victims of that situation and basically none of what you have said is right.

Either get it right or find an example that is actually true, because parrotting false information kills any point you try to make.
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
I don't see an open report on a post in which Bacle calls you a Nazi.

You mean on a site comprised entirely of refugees from leftwing sites where the staff encourage a culture of snitching that your userbase would be reluctant to...inform on their fellows? Even when their fellows are spies for Whitehall mods as Bacle clearly conducts himself as?

Not trying to be a dick, it just seems a little tone deaf and like the rules are being selectively enforced to some degree.

Personally I don't care if I'm called a Nazi. As I dont care, I usually don't report it and just focus on the argument or ignore it entirely. Anyone who does that is a weak person with a bad argument throwing a tantrum. I'm not going to report a thing I think has no meaning and being called a Nazi has no more meaning. They have cheapened it to where its become the equivalent of calling someone a Fag ten years ago, if you'll excuse my use of the pejorative.

But for others here, they may still care about the N word and wonder why when so many mods were here, that the rinos didn't catch a beating when Sane was and the rest of us were threatened.

.

Either get it right or find an example that is actually true, because parrotting false information kills any point you try to make.

Your hate speech laws are abomination against the very notion of civilization itself. There is no true liberty in the UK anymore and your nation faces cultural extinction as its being forced by the bureaucrat class to destroy the notion of what it means to be English on a cultural level in favor of integration and that has been happening since well before Enoch Powell made his rivers of blood speech.

I would argue any government official be they regular cops on the streets or city management dudes or MEPs, to social workers who continue to enforce the policies that are systematically destroying the UK is not your friendly neighborhood city fellow but an agent of a hostile occupying force that is determined to end your society.

A nation can survive a demographic change, ethnically speaking. This is where I think ethnonationalists are insane.

Hell the Ancient Egyptians had what? 4 demographic changes until Islam ended their culture in an orgy of rape and bloodshed? Or at least finished what the Germanics started.

But no nation on earth, can survive cultural deconstruction. It is the means by which all great nations have been destroyed and all great peoples broken. The death of the culture means the death of the national spirit and with it all peoples and creeds and faiths of the polis.

So ubarask isn't wrong to say your average British Civil servant has a serious problem with loyalty and duty and has hit the motherload as far as conflict of interests go.

Calling for their deaths in very specific ways was bad. But Sheild wife ain't wrong to say they are enemies of the people.

The FBI certainly is.

Most bureaucrats who work for the government in the US are traitors. Their frustrations are understandable.

It certainly isn't patriotism to defend them anymore. It used to be but then both our countries got raped by political deconstructivism.

Calling for deaths the way he did was out of line. But let's not pretend the indignation behind the emotional outburst was unfounded
 
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Free-Stater 101

Freedom Means Freedom!!!
Nuke Mod
Moderator
Staff Member
It's still just question marks.
That's not the point I am getting at Zoe,

Here's the initial post he made note the question mark's and the clear rule 2a infraction.

https://www.the-sietch.com/index.ph...rums-sb-sv-qq-ah-etc.626/page-309#post-105599

As you can see he was infracted by someone and (????????) was where that was Mechanicus is claiming that he never said that despite the fact that he was not only infracted but the fact that I also have evidence of him saying it.

https://www.the-sietch.com/index.ph...rums-sb-sv-qq-ah-etc.626/page-309#post-105608

As you can see the next post which was last edited Wednesday if you click this post it will lead you directly to the infracted one.

In short IDK why Mechanicus insist on denying he ever stated when he know's very well he did.

(Also I asked LTR about this and she said that their must be a glitch in the system because her logs say nobody edited the post period, despite the fact that the evidence I presented says someone had too, so I will be reporting this to tech. (I don't want you to think I am some sort of drama queen when I post this their, LTR was the one who recommended the glitch be looked at not me.)
I literally cannot check my own posts cause I was banned from the forum they were placed @Fallout-Man101 and unless there is something seriously wrong with my head you are lying. There was never anything between the parenthesis other than question marks. Unless I put a "nigga what" there and it was edites out by a mod which would be not only hilariously stupid but also open a completly new rabbit hole of "mods can edit user posts".
I have evidence and my own memory to go by at the bottom line, you have nothing, but desperately pleads of 'I didn't do it'

Wait a week and see the evidence yourself if you refuse to believe me.
 
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