China is Preparing for war with the West

[VictortheMonarch]

I know you're being obtuse given my point was pretty obviously questioning the sudden wave of Anti-China sentiments here in the States, but specific to your point: who gives a fuck? If China is taking control of everything within their borders in the economic sense, not only is that not my problem nor the businesses of any America, but hey, I'm glad they're doing it and I think we should look at them as an example. Our capitalist class is absolutely obscene, treasonous, and a degenerate influence upon society.

They're Communist, and we're Capitalist, these two Ideologies are mortal Enemies. I Kinda understand where you're coming from, but Capitalism has the highest percentage of people raised from Poverty, even if it does lead to spoiled brats that we have today, I'd rather deal with spoiled brats, than I would with Hungry peasants.

 

[Husky_Khan]

I've got a massive migraine right now, I so I'm just going to assume that you're saying that both sides are at fault here and call it a day.

The sad thing is that RedState actually broke the story in May, but it's The Intercept that got all of the credit because Right Wing news websites could never break important stories.

The Intercept's New COVID Report Confirms What RedState Reported in May 2021

redstate.com

Stating that the 'Trump Administration' approved it does sound like a distortion, implying Trump was the one who masterminded the release of the CommieCough to further push anti-China sentiment but that's the hyperpartisan world of politics we live on nowadays. The main important takeaway from the re-broken story is that Dr. Fauci basically lied back in May in regards to the US through EcoHealth as a Contractor did support the Wuhan Institute of Virology in their 'gain of function' research of the WuFlu. It was known in Right Wing circles since at least May up to and including Rand Paul, the Senator Dr. Fauci was lying to, but now that the Glenn Greenwald-less Intercept broke the story, it might actually get more legitimate traction beyond 'right wing conspiracies' now. Regardless stating it was a US Biological Attack on China is pretty hilarious regardless.

 

[VictortheMonarch]

You're recall the deal was signed by Trump in early 2020, almost a year and half ago lol. The War in Afghanistan was lost long ago, not suddenly in the Summer of 2021. Specific to the purposes of this thread and the issue of China, what the Chinese do in their own borders is none of my business or yours, unless it poses a serious risk to ourselves.

Back then the Taliban was falling apart, and would've been easy pickings for a CIA coup led by a quote on quote new guard that would totally not be American lapdogs. Then as soon as Trump is out of office, the Taliban suddenly seems so much stronger, and has more money, weapons and average day manpower than they had a simple month before. It's concerning, in most aspects.

 

[VictortheMonarch]

The sad thing is that RedState actually broke the story in May, but it's The Intercept that got all of the credit because Right Wing news websites could never break important stories.

The Intercept's New COVID Report Confirms What RedState Reported in May 2021

redstate.com

Stating that the 'Trump Administration' approved it does sound like a distortion, implying Trump was the one who masterminded the release of the CommieCough to further push anti-China sentiment but that's the hyperpartisan world of politics we live on nowadays. The main important takeaway from the re-broken story is that Dr. Fauci basically lied back in May in regards to the US through EcoHealth as a Contractor did support the Wuhan Institute of Virology in their 'gain of function' research of the WuFlu. It was known in Right Wing circles since at least May up to and including Rand Paul, the Senator Dr. Fauci was lying to, but now that the Glenn Greenwald-less Intercept broke the story, it might actually get more legitimate traction beyond 'right wing conspiracies' now. Regardless stating it was a US Biological Attack on China is pretty hilarious regardless.

Yeah, I've read the original Red State Article, and they were right in most aspects. Though this whole situation isn't what's given my my headache, I got my second Fauci poke and it's fuckin with me. Outta work for two days cause of it. I know I'm minorly Allergic to a chemical in the Vax, which is why I (And many others) Have this problem.

 

[History Learner]

Back then the Taliban was falling apart, and would've been easy pickings for a CIA coup led by a quote on quote new guard that would totally not be American lapdogs. Then as soon as Trump is out of office, the Taliban suddenly seems so much stronger, and has more money, weapons and average day manpower than they had a simple month before. It's concerning, in most aspects.

In what world was the Taliban falling apart in 2020? You're either making this up or you need to stop reading whatever news website claimed such.

They're Communist, and we're Capitalist, these two Ideologies are mortal Enemies. I Kinda understand where you're coming from, but Capitalism has the highest percentage of people raised from Poverty, even if it does lead to spoiled brats that we have today, I'd rather deal with spoiled brats, than I would with Hungry peasants.

Good thing China doesn't have that either, but specific to the point that was at hand, why is that even our business?

 

[Husky_Khan]

They're Communist, and we're Capitalist, these two Ideologies are mortal Enemies. I Kinda understand where you're coming from, but Capitalism has the highest percentage of people raised from Poverty, even if it does lead to spoiled brats that we have today, I'd rather deal with spoiled brats, than I would with Hungry peasants.

Yeah the idea that there's some sort of grand Anti-China conspiracy alliance between Donald Trump and George Soros types is pretty amusing. As is the idea that it suddenly is sprouting up now... and that the CommieCough/WuFlu was an American biological attack meant to harm China and increase Anti-China sentiment.

Keep in mind, Trump has always since he became a Republican against our trade policy with China (and most free trade in general) since at least 2011. He tweeted out back then “China is neither an ally or a friend -- they want to beat us and own our country.” And it's not just China. He's been critical of NATO, of NAFTA, of White Supremicists (just had to throw that in there) and foreign wars in general both in Iraq and Afghanistan for years.

And Anti-China sentiment has always been a thing. There was a boost of it actually in the wake of the 2008 Beijing Olympics. South Park actually spoofed it in an October 2008 episode. In 2009 Pew Research actually released a poll (covering Council of Foreign Relations members versus the General Public) and while the elite viewed China as less of a threat, the General Public way back in 2008 had over half viewing China as a major threat by then. Over a quarter of them even stated China was a greater power then America was. Truth is there were loads of political ads about China back in 2008 by both parties. Even then VP Candidate Joe Biden got in on it. McCain, despite his strong foreign policy rhetoric (especially in regards to Russia) didn't dunk on China too much except in the debates.

Course shockingly Obama's policies after being elected weren't quite as strident... he had a bilateral meeting with the Chinese Premier on April 1st 2009 to work on the financial crisis recovery, including China praising Obama's ideas on the 2009 Stimulus, as well as cooperating with them on multilateral talks regarding North Korea and Iran and climate change and stating China wasn't really a 'currency manipulator.'

Then during the midterm elections of 2010, Obama went to form and started criticizing China anew as did everyone else.

Strangely it popped up again in 2012, coinciding with that election season. Remember the infamous Chinese Professor commercial by the Citizens Against Government Waste?



Yeah that was over a decade ago. It's almost reflective of the anti-Japanese stuff going on in the 80's and 90's when it looked like they were kicking American asses economically and it even featured in Robocop movies and Tom Clancy novels as well as political ads and debates. Course China is a fair bit more of threat to American hegemony then Japan ever was at that time.

So yeah... this new Anti-China thing isn't all that new. It might be more pronounced but it's hardly a both sides conspiracy involving Trump and Soros types and tying the WuFlu as being a biological attack masterminded by the United States to discredit China more by the Trump Administration (and George Soros) seems to be a bit suspicious to me at the moment.

 

[History Learner]

Yeah the idea that there's some sort of grand Anti-China conspiracy alliance between Donald Trump and George Soros types is pretty amusing. As is the idea that it suddenly is sprouting up now... and that the CommieCough/WuFlu was an American biological attack meant to harm China and increase Anti-China sentiment.

Keep in mind, Trump has always since he became a Republican against our trade policy with China (and most free trade in general) since at least 2011. He tweeted out back then “China is neither an ally or a friend -- they want to beat us and own our country.” And it's not just China. He's been critical of NATO, of NAFTA, of White Supremicists (just had to throw that in there) and foreign wars in general both in Iraq and Afghanistan for years.

And Anti-China sentiment has always been a thing. There was a boost of it actually in the wake of the 2008 Beijing Olympics. South Park actually spoofed it in an October 2008 episode. In 2009 Pew Research actually released a poll (covering Council of Foreign Relations members versus the General Public) and while the elite viewed China as less of a threat, the General Public way back in 2008 had over half viewing China as a major threat by then. Over a quarter of them even stated China was a greater power then America was. Truth is there were loads of political ads about China back in 2008 by both parties. Even then VP Candidate Joe Biden got in on it. McCain, despite his strong foreign policy rhetoric (especially in regards to Russia) didn't dunk on China too much except in the debates.

Course shockingly Obama's policies after being elected weren't quite as strident... he had a bilateral meeting with the Chinese Premier on April 1st 2009 to work on the financial crisis recovery, including China praising Obama's ideas on the 2009 Stimulus, as well as cooperating with them on multilateral talks regarding North Korea and Iran and climate change and stating China wasn't really a 'currency manipulator.'

Then during the midterm elections of 2010, Obama went to form and started criticizing China anew as did everyone else.

Strangely it popped up again in 2012, coinciding with that election season. Remember the infamous Chinese Professor commercial by the Citizens Against Government Waste?



Yeah that was over a decade ago. It's almost reflective of the anti-Japanese stuff going on in the 80's and 90's when it looked like they were kicking American asses economically and it even featured in Robocop movies and Tom Clancy novels as well as political ads and debates. Course China is a fair bit more of threat to American hegemony then Japan ever was at that time.

So yeah... this new Anti-China thing isn't all that new. It might be more pronounced but it's hardly a both sides conspiracy involving Trump and Soros types and tying the WuFlu as being a biological attack masterminded by the United States to discredit China more by the Trump Administration (and George Soros) seems to be a bit suspicious to me at the moment.

Well, when you attack strawmen, you're always right. Let's recall exactly what I said, shall we?

Which might encourage you to examine the motives behind others too, and how this Anti-China wave suddenly sprung into existence?

The existence of Anti-China rhetoric extends back into the 19th Century with the Yellow Peril, but specific to the context of this thread, I said the current wave that has appeared in the last year. This is clearly, objectively provable:

Since January, the percentage of U.S. voters who say China is an “enemy” has risen 11 percentage points to 31 percent, while the percentage of voters who say China is either an ally or friend has fallen 9 points to a combined 23 percent, a new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll shows. The 30 percent who say China is unfriendly but not an enemy has held about constant in the past five months.

For all the negativity, U.S. voters, by a 28-point margin, favor working with China to respond to the coronavirus instead of confronting the country aggressively.

“This is a trend to watch,” Tyler Sinclair, vice president at Morning Consult, said of the numbers.

The shifting poll numbers and the crush of negative, and sometimes misleading, advertising concerning China show the depth of its salience as a central issue in the presidential campaign. But unlike other matters in U.S. politics, the clash with a global superpower has worldwide ramifications that recall the hostilities of the Cold War and raise domestic political concerns about anti-Asian racism.

U.S. perceptions of China have periodically worsened and improved over the years. But sentiment toward the country grew markedly negative after 2017, according to polling from Pew Research that now shows two-thirds of Americans have a negative view of China and only a quarter have a positive one. The spread of the coronavirus during a presidential election year “was just an accelerant” that made the tensions more pronounced, said Bonnie Glaser, a China expert with the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

As for the issue of COVID, I would be delighted if you would show where I claimed it was a U.S. plot to hurt China? If it was, the U.S. is especially fucked since it hit us a hell of a lot harder than it hit them.

 

[Husky_Khan]

The existence of Anti-China rhetoric extends back into the 19th Century with the Yellow Peril, but specific to the context of this thread, I said the current wave that has appeared in the last year. This is clearly, objectively provable:

Well when you attack strawmen, your always right. Let's recall exactly what I said, shall we?

So yeah... this new Anti-China thing isn't all that new. It might be more pronounced

WOW. Did I just say that? Without having to look at anything? Amazing. But no... continue with your conspiracies that this is some sort of inflation of Sinophobia. It's natural and understandable. No Soros-Trump Axis going on here. And it's not from the last year... it's been coalescing for some time obviously and the CommieCough and election season just added to it.

As for the issue of COVID, I would be delighted if you would show where I claimed it was a U.S. plot to hurt China?

Consider yourself delighted... Your welcome.

No Strawmen here. More of an inability of you to communicate your ideas effectively it seems. Sad.

If it was, the U.S. is especially fucked since it hit us a hell of a lot harder than it hit them.

No shit Sherlock, that's what I said back in the First Page. Try and keep up.

 

[Whitestrake Pelinal]

They're Communist, and we're Capitalist, these two Ideologies are mortal Enemies. I Kinda understand where you're coming from, but Capitalism has the highest percentage of people raised from Poverty, even if it does lead to spoiled brats that we have today, I'd rather deal with spoiled brats, than I would with Hungry peasants.

China is ruled by a "Chinese Communist Party", but that title means little. The Party could call themselves the Emperors of Time and Space, and the Chinese people would parrot their words -- or else.

Their ruling Party is not communist and has not been for decades. They do not practice communal ownership of all assets and industries, and have not for decades. They industrialized by abandoning that, in favor of something much like fascism, in which industry and government are intertwined. The Party is above the people, exercises authority over the people, claims to be for the people, and is composed of individuals from among the people (not foreigners) who earned their place in the Party on the Party's terms. If they called themselves the Chinese National Socialist Party they'd be more accurate, but they have zero fucks to give about shit like that -- the name's communist so they'll say 'communist' 'til the cows come home.

 

[LordsFire]

So in other words, the best case scenario for the conflict not going nuclear is massive numbers of American plebeian soldiers, quite plausibly relying upon a draft simply to get said numbers, dying for a continuation of the status quo and inevitably a lot of 'wartime emergency' measures rammed through goverment.

Stop mainlining black pills. Seriously.

If the US got involved in a war in Taiwan, it's questionable whether we'd deploy infantry at all. There's plenty of Taiwanese around for that job, and the Japanese and Vietnamese are also right nearby.

The key factor here, is that China would need to launch a naval invasion. As in ship in the water full of men and supplies, trying to get to Taiwan. Taiwan's own defenses plus two US Carrier Battle Groups (which last I checked is what we have deployed in the area right now) would be more than enough to completely crush any offense on that.

The Taiwanese might be able to win the entire thing without the US doing anything but keeping on selling them weapons. With US support, the result is basically a foregone conclusion, if for no other reason than the fact that that'd also bring NATO, Japan, Australia, etc on board. If the US is going to throw down, other nations in the SE Asia region will be lining up for the opportunity to take a swipe at China, because the CCP has done nothing but make enemies for decades.

Practically speaking the worst-case scenario is that the Chinese manage to sink one or two Carriers, so we have to send a couple more. The Chinese would still lose, barring impossibly absurd circumstances, like repeated typhoons striking just in time to sink US naval battle groups and never touching the Chinese Navy.

 

[LTR]

Thread Moved to the War Room

 

[VictortheMonarch]

Stop mainlining black pills. Seriously.

If the US got involved in a war in Taiwan, it's questionable whether we'd deploy infantry at all. There's plenty of Taiwanese around for that job, and the Japanese and Vietnamese are also right nearby.

The key factor here, is that China would need to launch a naval invasion. As in ship in the water full of men and supplies, trying to get to Taiwan. Taiwan's own defenses plus two US Carrier Battle Groups (which last I checked is what we have deployed in the area right now) would be more than enough to completely crush any offense on that.

The Taiwanese might be able to win the entire thing without the US doing anything but keeping on selling them weapons. With US support, the result is basically a foregone conclusion, if for no other reason than the fact that that'd also bring NATO, Japan, Australia, etc on board. If the US is going to throw down, other nations in the SE Asia region will be lining up for the opportunity to take a swipe at China, because the CCP has done nothing but make enemies for decades.

Practically speaking the worst-case scenario is that the Chinese manage to sink one or two Carriers, so we have to send a couple more. The Chinese would still lose, barring impossibly absurd circumstances, like repeated typhoons striking just in time to sink US naval battle groups and never touching the Chinese Navy.

You're forgetting that they could also launch a Invasion by air. It proved a useful tactic against the French in WWII and if the Brits had been left out a tad longer, the Germans would've been able to send Paratroopers across the channel by at least 1943.

You're also ignoring China's critically insane manpower, their ancestors fucked like rabbits, and now they make up an eighth of the world. Technically speaking, if China wanted to, they could build more ships than us, more ammo than us, and pump out more soldiers than us. Which does indeed level the odds. Not only that, but you're forgetting the countries in the Chinese Sphere, I.E; Indo-China, North Korea, Afghanistan and Iran & Qatar (Though the last two are iffy, depends on the situation), so the chances of the war going full blown WW3 would be rather high. Remember, WWI didn't look like it would be a major war, and look at how devastating that was.

Besides that North Korea would definitely try to use the chance to attack South Korea, opening up yet another front in the war, I'm not saying it will happen, yet it could. That could go either way, depending on how fast each side gets their troops to the border, but it would likely end up being a trench fight. Both sides gaining and losing, but not by much.

Besides that, you're being way to optimistic on the Carrier situation. China does have a rather large navy, enough so that we would likely have to send a good chunk of our fleet to the area, which would give any Chinese Armada's waiting in foreign ports the chance to assault our coast. While unlikely as it is, it is a threat the Govt. would not take, so our naval capabilities would be moderately hindered.

 

[VictortheMonarch]

Thread Moved to the War Room

Thanks, I wasn't sure if this would go there, or not.

 

[Zachowon]

You're forgetting that they could also launch a Invasion by air. It proved a useful tactic against the French in WWII and if the Brits had been left out a tad longer, the Germans would've been able to send Paratroopers across the channel by at least 1943.

You're also ignoring China's critically insane manpower, their ancestors fucked like rabbits, and now they make up an eighth of the world. Technically speaking, if China wanted to, they could build more ships than us, more ammo than us, and pump out more soldiers than us. Which does indeed level the odds. Not only that, but you're forgetting the countries in the Chinese Sphere, I.E; Indo-China, North Korea, Afghanistan and Iran & Qatar (Though the last two are iffy, depends on the situation), so the chances of the war going full blown WW3 would be rather high. Remember, WWI didn't look like it would be a major war, and look at how devastating that was.

Besides that North Korea would definitely try to use the chance to attack South Korea, opening up yet another front in the war, I'm not saying it will happen, yet it could. That could go either way, depending on how fast each side gets their troops to the border, but it would likely end up being a trench fight. Both sides gaining and losing, but not by much.

Besides that, you're being way to optimistic on the Carrier situation. China does have a rather large navy, enough so that we would likely have to send a good chunk of our fleet to the area, which would give any Chinese Armada's waiting in foreign ports the chance to assault our coast. While unlikely as it is, it is a threat the Govt. would not take, so our naval capabilities would be moderately hindered.

The Chinese can not out produce us in the military sphere. it only seems like it because of them having more drydocks. We already have more Carriers then they do, and are building more. We are just taking our time.
We have the coast Guard for a reason, and the US coastal defense is far stronger then anything the Chinese have. We have a VERY powerful defnese.

North korea would get its ass kicked by South korea without even needing the US to get invovled.

 

[Bear Ribs]

You're forgetting that they could also launch a Invasion by air. It proved a useful tactic against the French in WWII and if the Brits had been left out a tad longer, the Germans would've been able to send Paratroopers across the channel by at least 1943.

You're also ignoring China's critically insane manpower, their ancestors fucked like rabbits, and now they make up an eighth of the world. Technically speaking, if China wanted to, they could build more ships than us, more ammo than us, and pump out more soldiers than us. Which does indeed level the odds. Not only that, but you're forgetting the countries in the Chinese Sphere, I.E; Indo-China, North Korea, Afghanistan and Iran & Qatar (Though the last two are iffy, depends on the situation), so the chances of the war going full blown WW3 would be rather high. Remember, WWI didn't look like it would be a major war, and look at how devastating that was.

Besides that North Korea would definitely try to use the chance to attack South Korea, opening up yet another front in the war, I'm not saying it will happen, yet it could. That could go either way, depending on how fast each side gets their troops to the border, but it would likely end up being a trench fight. Both sides gaining and losing, but not by much.

Besides that, you're being way to optimistic on the Carrier situation. China does have a rather large navy, enough so that we would likely have to send a good chunk of our fleet to the area, which would give any Chinese Armada's waiting in foreign ports the chance to assault our coast. While unlikely as it is, it is a threat the Govt. would not take, so our naval capabilities would be moderately hindered.

China has severely limited airlift options.

The PLAAF Airborne Corps is so limited in capacity that they can only transport a single division of about 11,000 men. This tends to be true across the board for Chinese forces, they have a lot of individual troops but never have the machinery to effectively transport them whether by land or by sea.

 

[VictortheMonarch]

The Chinese can not out produce us in the military sphere. it only seems like it because of them having more drydocks. We already have more Carriers then they do, and are building more. We are just taking our time.
We have the coast Guard for a reason, and the US coastal defense is far stronger then anything the Chinese have. We have a VERY powerful defnese.

North korea would get its ass kicked by South korea without even needing the US to get invovled.

Yeah, but North Korea is more prone to just nuking the south and being done with it.

 

[Zachowon]

Yeah, but North Korea is more prone to just nuking the south and being done with it.

No. They would want it intact

 

[VictortheMonarch]

No. They would want it intact

They've lived for years without it, They wouldn't care. Besides that, they're run by a mad man.

 

[Husky_Khan]

They've lived for years without it, They wouldn't care. Besides that, they're run by a mad man.

North Korea maybe run by a madman but that doesn't mean they aren't acting without rationality. The North Korean leadership has its realistic goals which ATM seem to be surviving as long as possible in their current state as leeching parasites off off their own country and everything they do is directed towards the survival of thst regime and maintaining or strengthening that status quo.

Going YOLO against South Korea would be contrary to that because you can't enjoy being Supreme Leader if your dead.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

North Korea maybe run by a madman but that doesn't mean they aren't acting without rationality. The North Korean leadership has its realistic goals which ATM seem to be surviving as long as possible in their current state as leeching parasites off off their own country and everything they do is directed towards the survival of thst regime and maintaining or strengthening that status quo.

Going YOLO against South Korea would be contrary to that because you can't enjoy being Supreme Leader if your dead.

Nukes aside, the Republic of Korea could probably mulch those terrorists on its own. Arse backwards T-72s against K1s and K2s is a massacre waiting to happen. That's disregarding what their modern air force would do to them...