China ChiCom News Thread

[IndyFront]

Big L Libertarianism seems to be about making a spectacle of themselves while either worship the NAP, or pretending hippie commun politics can actually work in the real world, or doing a poor impression of a Ferengi.

And the hippie communes I've been in usually have a very very small percentage of libertarians living among them, mostly big L Liberals and Democrats, lol

 

[Abhorsen]

Kuril's are Japan's territory, and the USSR were utter cunts for not giving it back; that doesn't make them Russian territory now, and the are still recognized as Japanese soil by most international players.

See, unlike you, I understand that NAP bullshit doesn't play internationally, never has, and that humanity will never be without armed conflict. I just want smart, judicious, righteous usage of force, instead of no force at all, and want to make sure that force is oreinted against foreign foes instead of fellow citizens.

Lol. "I wanna declare war on a nuclear power." And you wonder why I treat you like a sign post marking out bad ideas?

The American Libertarian Party is what I like to call "lolbertarians". Fake, pseudo-libertarianism that is really all about sucking up to Tankies and people who hate America for stupid reactionary reasons.

Not since the Reno Revolt, where it got completely taken over by the Mises Caucus. It's now run by actual libertarians, not the Bill Weld/Jo Jorgensons of the world.

Small L libertarianism is fairly sane and closely aligns with classical liberalism to help balance against tradcon conservatism.

Big L Libertarianism seems to be about making a spectacle of themselves while either worship the NAP, or pretending hippie commun politics can actually work in the real world, or doing a poor impression of a Ferengi.

You wouldn't know either libertarianism if it hit you in the face. But then you also don't understand conservatism either. Basically you complain every time a political party stands up for what that political party believes in, instead of what you desire.

Because there is a LOT more to multiple agencies and a lot more restrictions then you realize.

I know a whole hell of a lot.
I just can't talk about a lot.

Press X to doubt. Sure, there's more stuff. It's all more stuff about how they screw over America though.

 

[Bacle]

Lol. "I wanna declare war on a nuclear power." And you wonder why I treat you like a sign post marking out bad ideas?

See, that's the thing, those islands were supposed to be returned to Japan once the treaty ending WW2 was signed, and the USSR/Russia never did.

So technically, the Kuril conflict is just the last vestage of WW2 lingering around, because the USSR would not sign the treaty ending it.

So it wouldn't be declaring war, because the war the islands are involved in was declared decades ago, and has ended everywhere but those islands,, and I guess Konigsberg, because the USSR were cunts who would not return lands to Japan and Poland.

Russia has also shown to be a paper tiger, and wouldn't risk Moscow and St. Petersburg getting glassed just to keep sticking it to Japan, if Japan decided to retake the occupied territories from Russia.

And you are a sign post I use to show why the Libertarian party is not to be listened too on foreign affairs and should mostly be treated as the domestic clown show/Dem operation to weaken the GOP that it has become.

You wouldn't know either libertarianism if it hit you in the face. But then you also don't understand conservatism either. Basically you complain every time a political party stands up for what that political party believes in, instead of what you desire.

Yes, because I am willing and able to point out the flaws and stupidity of all parts of the political spectrum, and my beliefs were rather centrist enough (till the Dems went insane) that I do not find any political ideology more important than our Constitution as it is and don't see the appeal of ideological zealotry that most parties seem to demand from their base voters.

There is a reason I'm a Registered Independent, and it's because political parties should have to earn people's loyalty, not the other way around of expecting loyalty to the political party as a matter of course.

 

[King Arts]

They literally want to kill Americans and train thier kis to hate us.
They are literally forcing thier men to rape Ugyher women because Han superiority.
We are helping countries in Pacific because of CHINA.

I have extreme doubt. They might hate us, because we have racists who want to fight against them, while at the same time driving the Asian community farther into the hands of the left. I care about the homefront, I don't care about foreign entaglements and wars too much. When we get foreign enemies we have idiot white conservatives here who feel "patriotic fervor" and do stuff to antagonize people of that ethnic group which made them like the left. It happened with the Germans, the Japanese, the fucking Arabs and Muslims. If you have your way it'll be the Chinese, except idiot racists aren't smart enough to tell the differance between a Korean or Japanese and a Chinese. So they will be racist against ALL asians.
I mean don't get me wrong I support protecting South Korea, and Japan. But I don't believe in getting into fights to protect a nation that we are not allies. Why should we ally with Taiwan and help them? I can understand Japan and Korea those are not Chinese they are a different ethnic group but Taiwan was made by China and the only reason it became separated was the century of humiliation and various invasions as well as a civil war between the nationalists and the commies with the commies sadly winning.

they want to replace us as Hegemon, which means that they would control every aspect of our nation that is imported. From the seas, to the ports, to the companies, to the government.

thwy are doing what ever they can to make us have littler and littler power because it bewnfits them.

But yeah, go on and suck off china.

nd china can get eid of our freedoms.
all it takes is them to basically make a monopoly we can't take from them and they can ruin our economy.
Good job, now we are poorer then we were before.

Yes they want to be the new hegemon. But that does not mean they can come to our shores and invade. Also you'd be willing to give up our freedoms because of "muh economy" Sorry I'm not a prostitute so I won't degrade myself and give up the freedoms I actually care for just because a foreign nation threatens sanctions. Oh we will be poorer, some protection for our rights that is.

Kuril's are Japan's territory, and the USSR were utter cunts for not giving it back; that doesn't make them Russian territory now, and the are still recognized as Japanese soil by most international players.

See, unlike you, I understand that NAP bullshit doesn't play internationally, never has, and that humanity will never be without armed conflict. I just want smart, judicious, righteous usage of force, instead of no force at all, and want to make sure that force is oreinted against foreign foes instead of fellow citizens.

I do agree that the Soviets acted like assholes by taking that. But I do have a question are you just being pro western and hypocritical? You seem to say that the people that have lived on the Kurils for 80 years and their kids who were born their should be kicked out back to Russia, but what about Hong Kong being part of China again? Like it's ok for western nations like the UK to take away territory from China, but the Soviet Union is wrong for taking away land from Japan?

 

[Zachowon]

Lol. "I wanna declare war on a nuclear power." And you wonder why I treat you like a sign post marking out bad ideas?


Not since the Reno Revolt, where it got completely taken over by the Mises Caucus. It's now run by actual libertarians, not the Bill Weld/Jo Jorgensons of the world.


You wouldn't know either libertarianism if it hit you in the face. But then you also don't understand conservatism either. Basically you complain every time a political party stands up for what that political party believes in, instead of what you desire.

Press X to doubt. Sure, there's more stuff. It's all more stuff about how they screw over America though.

It isn't though.
There is a lot of shit that is not openly told because of how important it is to keep means secret

 

[Husky_Khan]

I've been increasingly leery of the Libertarian Foreign Policy ideas but the reasons are always super subtle.

 

[Zachowon]

Huh, who would have thought Japan committing atrocities would warrant sanctions

 

[IndyFront]

I've been increasingly leery of the Libertarian Foreign Policy ideas but the reasons are always super subtle.

Yeah, the Libertarians have completed their transformation into right-leaning tankies basically. Controlled opposition for the elites to try to herd everyone into the two-party system. God dammit I hate this country sometimes.

 

[Abhorsen]

See, that's the thing, those islands were supposed to be returned to Japan once the treaty ending WW2 was signed, and the USSR/Russia never did.

So technically, the Kuril conflict is just the last vestage of WW2 lingering around, because the USSR would not sign the treaty ending it.

So it wouldn't be declaring war, because the war the islands are involved in was declared decades ago, and has ended everywhere but those islands,, and I guess Konigsberg, because the USSR were cunts who would not return lands to Japan and Poland.

Russia has also shown to be a paper tiger, and wouldn't risk Moscow and St. Petersburg getting glassed just to keep sticking it to Japan, if Japan decided to retake the occupied territories from Russia.

And you are a sign post I use to show why the Libertarian party is not to be listened too on foreign affairs and should mostly be treated as the domestic clown show/Dem operation to weaken the GOP that it has become.

You actually want to have a war with Russia!!!! Man, if you had any hope of ever having any power whatsoever, this would be terrifying, but now it's just hilarious and sad.

Yeah, the Libertarians have completed their transformation into right-leaning tankies basically. Controlled opposition for the elites to try to herd everyone into the two-party system. God dammit I hate this country sometimes.

Uh huh. Tankies, that's us. We have so much in common with them, given our hatred of communism and war.

Shockingly, the LP doesn't like the US intervening, because it has a near 100% rate of backfiring on us. Let's take a quick look: Intervening in WW1 -> WW2 & Hitler -> defeating Hitler -> The Soviet Union enslaves millions. Condemning Japan -> Pearl Harbor -> defeating Japan -> unleashing a worse dictatorship in China. This process repeats over and over. It doesn't matter whether or not the person deserved our intervention or not (Hitler and Japan did). It's that every intervention we do causes even more problems for us later, every single time.

We have exactly 1 intervention that worked, which was South Korea, where the good dictatorship tied the bad dictatorship, then eventually reformed into a democracy. That's literally the entirety of our success. Afghanistan vs USSR and Israel I'll give as a push, as Afghanistan helped us defeat the USSR, but cost us 9/11 and the Afghan War and ISIS, and Israel survived, but didn't actually help the US more than its existence has harmed the US.

It isn't though.
There is a lot of shit that is not openly told because of how important it is to keep means secret

BWAHAHAHA, man, keep simping for the NSA.

 

[IndyFront]

Uh huh. Tankies, that's us. We have so much in common with them, given our hatred of communism and war.

Shockingly, the LP doesn't like the US intervening, because it has a near 100% rate of backfiring on us. Let's take a quick look: Intervening in WW1 -> WW2 & Hitler -> defeating Hitler -> The Soviet Union enslaves millions. Condemning Japan -> Pearl Harbor -> defeating Japan -> unleashing a worse dictatorship in China. This process repeats over and over. It doesn't matter whether or not the person deserved our intervention or not (Hitler and Japan did). It's that every intervention we do causes even more problems for us later, every single time.

We have exactly 1 intervention that worked, which was South Korea, where the good dictatorship tied the bad dictatorship, then eventually reformed into a democracy. That's literally the entirety of our success. Afghanistan vs USSR and Israel I'll give as a push, as Afghanistan helped us defeat the USSR, but cost us 9/11 and the Afghan War and ISIS, and Israel survived, but didn't actually help the US more than its existence has harmed the US.

Point out where I supported intervention in the post you quoted. I'll wait.

 

[Zachowon]

You actually want to have a war with Russia!!!! Man, if you had any hope of ever having any power whatsoever, this would be terrifying, but now it's just hilarious and sad.


Uh huh. Tankies, that's us. We have so much in common with them, given our hatred of communism and war.

Shockingly, the LP doesn't like the US intervening, because it has a near 100% rate of backfiring on us. Let's take a quick look: Intervening in WW1 -> WW2 & Hitler -> defeating Hitler -> The Soviet Union enslaves millions. Condemning Japan -> Pearl Harbor -> defeating Japan -> unleashing a worse dictatorship in China. This process repeats over and over. It doesn't matter whether or not the person deserved our intervention or not (Hitler and Japan did). It's that every intervention we do causes even more problems for us later, every single time.

We have exactly 1 intervention that worked, which was South Korea, where the good dictatorship tied the bad dictatorship, then eventually reformed into a democracy. That's literally the entirety of our success. Afghanistan vs USSR and Israel I'll give as a push, as Afghanistan helped us defeat the USSR, but cost us 9/11 and the Afghan War and ISIS, and Israel survived, but didn't actually help the US more than its existence has harmed the US.


BWAHAHAHA, man, keep simping for the NSA.

It's the truth though.
There are things that have to be kept secret in order for our adversaries to not know and adjust.

But that is the thing with security.
You can have unlimited freedom and have the capability to truly defend your country from foreign powers.

 

[Abhorsen]

Point out where I supported intervention in the post you quoted. I'll wait.

Never said you did. The post you quoted was about people complaining that the libertarians were anti-war & anti-intervention.

Note it showed a wildly out of context post from Joshua Reed Eackle about a general antiwar rally where the Libertarians were just one of the cosponsors there.

It's the truth though.
There are things that have to be kept secret in order for our adversaries to not know and adjust.

But that is the thing with security.
You can have unlimited freedom and have the capability to truly defend your country from foreign powers.

I don't believe you. You suck so much boot no one should believe you.

Lol, you can't get unlimited freedom with the amount of security you want. The security will first be unleashed on the native populace. It already has been.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Point out where I supported intervention in the post you quoted. I'll wait.

If anything, that Libertarians apparently favor Hitler more than the the Soviet Union and Japan more than China means he's pro-Fascist as opposed to pro-Communist. So Libertarian support of Putin and Xi's China might actually make more sense as the former is an authoritarian regime and the latter does that 'State Capitalism' mutant thing as opposed to either being straight Commie. 😛

 

[IndyFront]

Never said you did. The post you quoted was about people complaining that the libertarians were anti-war & anti-intervention.

Then why did you quote my post lmao

 

[King Arts]

Point out where I supported intervention in the post you quoted. I'll wait.

I don’t think you are this is just an argument between the interventionist side vs the isolationist side. I mean no one on our side is saying “yeah go China fuck those muzzie uigers!” We recognize China is abusing them some say it’s not genocide I think it is leaning towards genocide my gripe with the other side is that you only bring up accusations of some nation if you want to influence a more aggressive policy towards them. Like me personally I like the Muslims more than the godless chicoms. But I also know that there is no point in being the defender of Islam here for goodness sake Muslim nations are offering less support to their brothers than some people here want. I support alliances and strategic partnerships with compatible groups like Muslims against globalists and communists. But well both sides have to win something for an alliance to work on the home front we would win the safety of our kids from groomers and let the Muslims rule themselves. By fighting China the Muslims get their freedom but what do we get besides poverty and our sins dying in a rice paddy in the best case. Worst case is fallout.

 

[Abhorsen]

If anything, that Libertarians apparently favor Hitler more than the the Soviet Union and Japan more than China means he's pro-Fascist as opposed to pro-Communist. So Libertarian support of Putin and Xi's China might actually make more sense as the former is an authoritarian regime and the latter does that 'State Capitalism' mutant thing as opposed to either being straight Commie. 😛

It's quite possible to hate both. I view the WW2 as an overall loss for the good guys. We defeated one bad guy but just gave power to a nearly equal bad guy. Post WW2 had murderous regimes in charge of far more than pre WW2.

I think our intervention made it less of a loss, but make no mistake, it was still a loss. Evil won WW2 by betting on both sides.

Then why did you quote my post lmao

Because I was replying to the rest of your post also? You know, where you called libertarians tankies? I simply pointed out that not being in favor of side A doesn't mean one is in favor of side B. You calling us tankies in response to us not liking interventionism resulted in a defense of Libertarians being non-interventionist.

 

[IndyFront]

Because I was replying to the rest of your post also? You know, where you called libertarians tankies? I simply pointed out that not being in favor of side A doesn't mean one is in favor of side B. You calling us tankies in response to us not liking interventionism resulted in a defense of Libertarians being non-interventionist.

You can be non-interventionist without parroting outright Chinese-Russian propaganda, which is what the Libertarian Party is seeming to do in those posts

 

[Captain X]

They aren't pretending it isn't happening, just that what's happening isn't a genocide. Bad, not a genocide.

And it's still moronic on their part, and you're an idiot for defending them.

 

[Abhorsen]

You can be non-interventionist without parroting outright Chinese-Russian propaganda, which is what the Libertarian Party is seeming to do in those posts

Given that the Ukraine war is a mess of confusion for anyone being slightly honest, you are likely going to end up saying some propaganda if you take any side. The Libertarians have never been pro Putin, just they've also been anti-Zelensky. Personally, I don't have a problem with Zelensky, but I get their issues. The dude is constantly asking for interventions and money, which he should be doing, but America shouldn't be giving. It's sorta like blaming the person on welfare for the welfare system existing.

As for Chinese propaganda, not really, no. Like I'm sure you can find some libertarians that have this stupid ass opinion, but then every large enough group has idiots. For the particular point about genocide, it's not falling for propaganda if you insist that it exists, and is bad, and should stop, just refuse to call it genocide.

And it's still moronic on their part, and you're an idiot for defending them.

Calling it not a genocide is simply the LPNH & Mises Caucus being very consistent wrt what they call a genocide. They don't consider Japanese internment or the American Indian reeducation programs genocide either. I consider the second one genocide, not the first, which allows me to call the China stuff a genocide, though it has its issues (if you introduce an amazon tribe to the modern world and they want to leave and abandon their culture, does that count? etc.). Basically, any bar can be attacked, so find your line and come up with the reasons your line is good, apply it equally, and be open to changing the definition upon being challenged.

Why do they harp on it? Because war propaganda should generally be resisted. And that is what the MSM's harping on this is. South Africa is going Fascist again (socialism with race swapped for class), and we never hear about it in the MSM. We hear about Chinese oppression of the Uighurs in the MSM (one of the biggest early reports was in the NYT) because they want us to dislike China.

Why? I'd blame the MIC, but that would be wrong here. It's more that some just love war. And why am I saying war in particular? Because no one in power actually solving the problem, using solutions the US has done before. When the Jews were harrassed in the USSR, the US opened their doors to them. We didn't do that to the Hong Kongers, we aren't doing that to the Uighurs, and that's something we should do, but won't. Because those in power don't want the Uighurs to escape, they want the Uighurs to be egg they shove in China's face.

So maybe don't criticize the party for immigration of actual refugees from communist countries because they aren't using the right label.

 

[Captain X]

Given that the Ukraine war is a mess of confusion for anyone being slightly honest, you are likely going to end up saying some propaganda if you take any side. The Libertarians have never been pro Putin, just they've also been anti-Zelensky. Personally, I don't have a problem with Zelensky, but I get their issues. The dude is constantly asking for interventions and money, which he should be doing, but America shouldn't be giving. It's sorta like blaming the person on welfare for the welfare system existing.

As for Chinese propaganda, not really, no. Like I'm sure you can find some libertarians that have this stupid ass opinion, but then every large enough group has idiots. For the particular point about genocide, it's not falling for propaganda if you insist that it exists, and is bad, and should stop, just refuse to call it genocide.


Calling it not a genocide is simply the LPNH & Mises Caucus being very consistent wrt what they call a genocide. They don't consider Japanese internment or the American Indian reeducation programs genocide either. I consider the second one genocide, not the first, which allows me to call the China stuff a genocide, though it has its issues (if you introduce an amazon tribe to the modern world and they want to leave and abandon their culture, does that count? etc.). Basically, any bar can be attacked, so find your line and come up with the reasons your line is good, apply it equally, and be open to changing the definition upon being challenged.

Why do they harp on it? Because war propaganda should generally be resisted. And that is what the MSM's harping on this is. South Africa is going Fascist again (socialism with race swapped for class), and we never hear about it in the MSM. We hear about Chinese oppression of the Uighurs in the MSM (one of the biggest early reports was in the NYT) because they want us to dislike China.

Why? I'd blame the MIC, but that would be wrong here. It's more that some just love war. And why am I saying war in particular? Because no one in power actually solving the problem, using solutions the US has done before. When the Jews were harrassed in the USSR, the US opened their doors to them. We didn't do that to the Hong Kongers, we aren't doing that to the Uighurs, and that's something we should do, but won't. Because those in power don't want the Uighurs to escape, they want the Uighurs to be egg they shove in China's face.

So maybe don't criticize the party for immigration of actual refugees from communist countries because they aren't using the right label.

Dude, they're rounding the people up into camps and harvesting their organs while sending men to live with and rape their wives. I don't care what convoluted rationale you want to use, it is disgusting for anyone to pretend that this somehow constitutes a "fake" genocide, and if they're only doing it to be edgy so people will pay attention to them it's fucking stupid. I'm especially disgusted because I generally consider myself to be a small l libertarian, and frankly it makes me look bad by association. The lengths that they and you go to be "anti-war" is every bit as ridiculous as these knee-jerk contrarians who defend Russia to the point that they end up shilling for them because they have it in their minds that Russia is the "anti-globo-homo." Why would anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together defend China.