China ChiCom News Thread

[LordsFire]

In that case, I guess the US has the most war-fighting experience of all the major powers!

It does, and this matters.

Sure, it's been fighting idiots with more courage than sense in the sandbox, but those Taliban, ISIS, etc, are still trying to kill you, even if all they have is AKs and IEDs, without air power, artillery support, etc.

You still learn to stay behind some damn cover, to maintain coordination, to not let the enemy flank you, to be on constant watch for grenades, etc, etc.

Historically, the USA has been the single nation most obsessed with avoiding casualties through expenditure of material instead of manpower, and as a result has more surviving veterans than any other present military. And veterans matter, as shitty as the Russians have been performing in Ukraine, everyone will agree that it was the formations that actually had some damn experience who performed at least decently, and those formations getting chewed up has been a big problem for the Russians.

The Chinese have no veterans in their active military, the Russians have been getting their conscripts slaughtered, and are so under-equipped and under-trained that the survivors only gain half the effect from experience they should anyways.

If things go hot between the US and either or both of the 'big rivals,' even with all the woke crap degrading our military, this will matter, it will matter a lot, and on the basic squad vs squad, platoon vs platoon level, the US and allies will tear the red bastards to shreds.

Give it another 10-20 years of woke corruption, and we may lose that, but that's a different story.

 

[Zachowon]

It does, and this matters.

Sure, it's been fighting idiots with more courage than sense in the sandbox, but those Taliban, ISIS, etc, are still trying to kill you, even if all they have is AKs and IEDs, without air power, artillery support, etc.

You still learn to stay behind some damn cover, to maintain coordination, to not let the enemy flank you, to be on constant watch for grenades, etc, etc.

Historically, the USA has been the single nation most obsessed with avoiding casualties through expenditure of material instead of manpower, and as a result has more surviving veterans than any other present military. And veterans matter, as shitty as the Russians have been performing in Ukraine, everyone will agree that it was the formations that actually had some damn experience who performed at least decently, and those formations getting chewed up has been a big problem for the Russians.

The Chinese have no veterans in their active military, the Russians have been getting their conscripts slaughtered, and are so under-equipped and under-trained that the survivors only gain half the effect from experience they should anyways.

If things go hot between the US and either or both of the 'big rivals,' even with all the woke crap degrading our military, this will matter, it will matter a lot, and on the basic squad vs squad, platoon vs platoon level, the US and allies will tear the red bastards to shreds.

Give it another 10-20 years of woke corruption, and we may lose that, but that's a different story.

I wouldn't even say we would lose it.
We will always have troops somewhere fighting and training and getting experience

 

[Yinko]

It does, and this matters.

I agree with everything you said. You look at 'soldiers' fighting in Mali or Algeria and they utterly pale in comparison to even the greenest marine. I would say that the US has the best military of any great power, but probably not the best military in the world on a pound-for-pound basis. There is probably some small country out there with a proud and ancient martial tradition with just a few thousand really excellent men (Nepal is the obvious example, but probably not the only one).

The issue is, the US can afford to lower professionalism because they have excessive production to throw at problems. I think this is why a lot of branches are having a problem with obesity in the ranks at the moment. The post-Great War pacifistic mindset that was reinforced by the Boomers during Vietnam has made it so that joining the military isn't even an afterthought for most people and has also greatly damaged our martial culture.

The main point of basic training in any military is to indoctrinate people into a new homogeneous culture, the culture of the military. By having officers who skip that by going in through side doors, by giving women lower standards, by catering to every special interest group out there, they engender a less homogenous culture of the military and thus weaken it at its foundation.

 

[Zachowon]

I agree with everything you said. You look at 'soldiers' fighting in Mali or Algeria and they utterly pale in comparison to even the greenest marine. I would say that the US has the best military of any great power, but probably not the best military in the world on a pound-for-pound basis. There is probably some small country out there with a proud and ancient martial tradition with just a few thousand really excellent men (Nepal is the obvious example, but probably not the only one).

The issue is, the US can afford to lower professionalism because they have excessive production to throw at problems. I think this is why a lot of branches are having a problem with obesity in the ranks at the moment. The post-Great War pacifistic mindset that was reinforced by the Boomers during Vietnam has made it so that joining the military isn't even an afterthought for most people and has also greatly damaged our martial culture.

The main point of basic training in any military is to indoctrinate people into a new homogeneous culture, the culture of the military. By having officers who skip that by going in through side doors, by giving women lower standards, by catering to every special interest group out there, they engender a less homogenous culture of the military and thus weaken it at its foundation.

Women arnt getting lower standards anymore.
Army at least is forced by congress to do away with it

 

[Lord Sovereign]

As a sort of general rule, the more you fight the better your military. China hasn't fought since Vietnam, where they lost against Vietcong reservists. They haven't won since Tibet, against pacifist monks. India has had four wars with Pakistan, dozens of more minor incidents with them, and aside from those has had some 22 conflicts its been involved in since its founding. Now, maybe in the calculus of war the Chinese would eventually take India down, but the Indians would certainly bleed them for it.

Wasn’t there some skirmish on the border a while back where the Chinese came off really badly against the Indians? At the very least I remember a picture of this Chinese officer (a very short one) doing a lot of shouting whilst the Indian officers look either calm or baffled.

I think China could well run into a “Ukraine on steroids, except you’ve got to get through fucking mountain passes to attack it” situation. Indians are fiercely patriotic and will lay down their lives for their country; just what kind of motivation does the Chinese conscript have to do the same?

 

[King Arts]

Everyone saying some new Black Death would cause nuclear war or genocide on China are delusional. For many reasons first off nations haven’t acted in that way before, second China is a nuclear power if they are being genocided there is no reason for them to not respond back, third disease would be also our fault too because when you are interconnected with the world then disease will spread the west forced itself into China and stopped it from being isolationist because they wanted markets.

If China was not a nuclear power then maybe in the wake of some new plague then imperial powers would invade them but the invasion would not be to destroy china because war causes plagues to spread even more and your own soldiers would bring the disease back it would be a humanitarian mission to “civilize” the Chinese stop west markets make them more western. This would also weaken you overtime because making a nation not a poor plague infested backwater makes it stronger economically and technologically. To stop China from being a poor pace where disease affect the world there are only two ways complete isolation of yourself because not everyone will agree to embargo China and if you try you end up with a world war, or the second option is to give China the tools to make itself remove disease which is technologically and wealth but that would make it very very strong. A nation with Chinas population and the technology of America would dominate the world.

 

[Cherico]

Wasn’t there some skirmish on the border a while back where the Chinese came off really badly against the Indians? At the very least I remember a picture of this Chinese officer (a very short one) doing a lot of shouting whilst the Indian officers look either calm or baffled.

I think China could well run into a “Ukraine on steroids, except you’ve got to get through fucking mountain passes to attack it” situation. Indians are fiercely patriotic and will lay down their lives for their country; just what kind of motivation does the Chinese conscript have to do the same?

India on the whole also has a younger population so they can handle this conflict better then china can.

 

[King Arts]

India on the whole also has a younger population so they can handle this conflict better then china can.

I will say this China getting in a war with India is the worst thing possible for them. Japan Americans are nothing compared to the pain China would go through if it and India had a real war.

 

[TheRejectionist]

just check the comments.

 

[DarthOne]

Thoughts??



China's Economy Is Finished, Returning Forests to Farming, Preparing for War and Famine?

 

[Yinko]

Thoughts??



China's Economy Is Finished, Returning Forests to Farming, Preparing for War and Famine?

Title is an understatement if anything. The agricultural policy will see massive soil erosure with both land-slides during rainy months and dust storms during dry months. China already had problems with soil and water quality, this will make them ten times worse. Then, if the diet becomes pure white-rice the population can expect to contract beri-beri, since they will have no actual nutrition. Killing off chickens and dogs, you'll probably end up with a pest problem like with the sparrow extermination program. Rats and insects to eat food and spread disease.

If this all goes through, I would expect China to lose 1/5 of its population within 10 years.

Funniest part, that 10 billion yuan? If you convert that to USD and then divide it by the number of active farm workers in China, it's less than $3 per person.

 

[Terthna]

Even if they got rid of the labs china would still be the place that generates the most dieases as they have been since antiquity. From both large numbers, unsafe handling of food, and other issues.

Like the fact that it's not unheard of for eating establishments in China to be using literal sewage as cooking oil to try and cut costs.

 

[TheRejectionist]

Thoughts??



China's Economy Is Finished, Returning Forests to Farming, Preparing for War and Famine?

I am the last person who would be defending the PRC, but before I put finished to Beijing I think we will have to see a geopolitical earthquake for something like that to happen to the mainland. I say this from my personal perspective, but I do recall that those who inhabited and inhabit the mainland have resisted worst stuff that would have made any other ethnocultural group extinct.

So I will wait and see.

 

[Yinko]

I am the last person who would be defending the PRC, but before I put finished to Beijing I think we will have to see a geopolitical earthquake for something like that to happen to the mainland. I say this from my personal perspective, but I do recall that those who inhabited and inhabit the mainland have resisted worst stuff that would have made any other ethnocultural group extinct.

In general I would agree. During the 80's, for example, there was a famine that saw people eating grass. The big difference now is that there is already simmering unrest, there have already been protests, already been bank runs, etc. Not saying that it would overturn the current order, I would actually put money on it going the other way. In either case though, if this is China's policy and they stick to it, they are no longer going to be a major power.

 

[TheRejectionist]

I am still of the opinion to wait and see. Because they look like they always have a last minute ace up their sleeve.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

I am still of the opinion to wait and see. Because they look like they always have a last minute ace up their sleeve.

That's b/c the rest of the world has been generally covering the CCP's ass for the last 4 decades or so.

 

[TheRejectionist]

That's b/c the rest of the world has been generally covering the CCP's ass for the last 4 decades or so.

Why 4? Because to my knowledge it has been only for the past 2. Or slightly less.

 

[Zyobot]

In general I would agree. During the 80's, for example, there was a famine that saw people eating grass. The big difference now is that there is already simmering unrest, there have already been protests, already been bank runs, etc. Not saying that it would overturn the current order, I would actually put money on it going the other way. In either case though, if this is China's policy and they stick to it, they are no longer going to be a major power.

Don’t suppose you have a reference on this?

Have no doubt the CCP likes to downplay its structural problems and won’t come clean of its own volition any time soon, but I’d think that if another Great Leap Forward-style famine happened after Mao had passed, I’d have heard of it by now.

 

[Yinko]

Don’t suppose you have a reference on this?

I was mistaken, it was the 60's, not the 80's. Or, if it also happened during the 80's I can't find a reference for it. As for protests and bank runs, those are recent events.

Let Them Eat Grass

What do Weibots think about China's Great Famine?

foreignpolicy.com

The Great Chinese Famine

In the late 1950s, the Chinese people were decimated by a catastrophic famine. With its large population and volatile agrarian economy, China was no stranger to famine. Its agricultural productivity was easily disrupted and susceptible to climate events, natural disasters, population changes and...

alphahistory.com

 

[Zyobot]

I was mistaken, it was the 60's, not the 80's. Or, if it also happened during the 80's I can't find a reference for it. As for protests and bank runs, those are recent events.

Let Them Eat Grass

What do Weibots think about China's Great Famine?

foreignpolicy.com

The Great Chinese Famine

In the late 1950s, the Chinese people were decimated by a catastrophic famine. With its large population and volatile agrarian economy, China was no stranger to famine. Its agricultural productivity was easily disrupted and susceptible to climate events, natural disasters, population changes and...

alphahistory.com

Thought so, thanks.

Knew about the Great Chinese Famine under Mao, and while I’m sure its true extent is something the CCP won’t disclose any time soon, I had my doubts that his successors pulled anything quite this bad from from the get-go.

Fortunately, Xi hasn’t reached that point yet, though given the recent protests and bank runs you’ve mentioned, I’d still strap in for both the incoming demographic collapse and all the structural rot they’ve accumulated to end in a collapse that actually does make even the most strident critics weep for the days of Chairman Mao. Releasing a Black Death-style “Plague of the 21st Century” or unleashing a Chinese Great Terror around 2053 or so tends to do that, I’d think.