China ChiCom News Thread

[Cherico]

Thought so, thanks.

Knew about the Great Chinese Famine under Mao, and while I’m sure its true extent is something the CCP won’t disclose any time soon, I had my doubts that his successors pulled anything quite this bad from from the get-go.

Fortunately, Xi hasn’t reached that point yet, though given the recent protests and bank runs you’ve mentioned, I’d still strap in for both the incoming demographic collapse and all the structural rot they’ve accumulated to end in a collapse that actually does make even the most strident critics weep for the days of Chairman Mao. Releasing a Black Death-style pandemic or unleashing a Chinese Great Terror around 2053 or so tends to do that, I’d think.

They might make a move on Taiwan too its hard to say what the CCP will do during their decline.

The problem for china is there really is no way to expand to solve their problems, pretty much all of their boarders are natural land boarders, and outside that you have hostel island chains that can block them from the global oceans, and the CCP has pretty much pissed all of them off.

My money is that the CCP is doomed this century but that China as a country and concept will survive.

 

[Zyobot]

They might make a move on Taiwan too its hard to say what the CCP will do during their decline.

The problem for china is there really is no way to expand to solve their problems, pretty much all of their boarders are natural land boarders, and outside that you have hostel island chains that can block them from the global oceans, and the CCP has pretty much pissed all of them off.

My money is that the CCP is doomed this century but that China as a country and concept will survive.

I dunno', things look pretty bleak.

True, China has endured thousands of years of wars, plagues, famines, and foreign invasions while still repopulating and once again reasserting itself as the Middle Kingdom.

But as the decline of Russia has shown, if there's anything more lethal than the Mongols, it's a few decades of Communist rule. And in China's case, it's likely to be besieged by some combination of them, if its history of releasing ultra-fatal plague outbreaks and repeated saber-rattling towards its neighbors is any indication.

Deng's half-hearted market reforms may have bought them more time than the USSR had, but in the long term, I'm not sure that'll be enough. If anything, I'm betting his achievements will be much overshadowed by the One-Child Policy's hard cap on childbearing leaving a lasting demographic crisis that'll leave him more reviled than Mao, in the eyes of future historians a hundred years from now. Combine that with all the cases of structural rot people here have posted about already, and I'd hardly be surprised if the CCP's fall takes China with it — or at least, disrupts its usual cycle of fragmentation and reunification for a few centuries.

In which case, a world in which the central and eastern "bulk" go India while the western coastline (alongside Japan, Korea, Taiwan, and other Pacific states) goes to the American Empire seems in the cards to me. Probably not what you or @Skallagrim foresee, but as of right now, that's my reading of things.

 

[Cherico]

I dunno', things look pretty bleak.

True, China has endured thousands of years of wars, plagues, famines, and foreign invasions while still repopulating and once again reasserting itself as the Middle Kingdom.

But as the decline of Russia has shown, if there's anything more lethal than the Mongols, it's a few decades of Communist rule. And in China's case, it's likely to be besieged by some combination of them, if its history of releasing ultra-fatal plague outbreaks and repeated saber-rattling towards its neighbors is any indication.

Deng's half-hearted market reforms may have bought them more time than the USSR had, but in the long term, I'm not sure that'll be enough. If anything, I'm betting his achievements will be much overshadowed by the One-Child Policy's hard cap on childbearing leaving a lasting demographic crisis that'll leave him more reviled than Mao, in the eyes of future historians a hundred years from now. Combine that with all the cases of structural rot people here have posted about already, and I'd hardly be surprised if the CCP's fall takes China with it — or at least, disrupts its usual cycle of fragmentation and reunification for a few centuries.

In which case, a world in which the central and eastern "bulk" go India while the western coastline (alongside Japan, Korea, Taiwan, and other Pacific states) goes to the American Empire seems in the cards to me. Probably not what you or @Skallagrim foresee, but as of right now, that's my reading of things.

honestly a rising india would not be a bad situation over all, the vedic civilization historically speaking is one of the most chill civilizaitons in human history.

 

[Zyobot]

honestly a rising india would not be a bad situation over all, the vedic civilization historically speaking is one of the most chill civilizaitons in human history.

Would be one of the "better" outcomes, yeah.

At the very least, I think India is much more deserving of being our "Persia" than China past and present. Still has its issues, of course, though at least their population isn't projected to shrink big time like China's (here and here).

 

[Yinko]

disrupts its usual cycle of fragmentation and reunification for a few centuries.

The "usual cycle" often takes several centuries, with multiple different powers reigning in the same region during that time. Events like the warlord period are an aberration for how quickly they passed.

 

[Zyobot]

The "usual cycle" often takes several centuries, with multiple different powers reigning in the same region during that time. Events like the warlord period are an aberration for how quickly they passed.

Honestly, I think we're in for what's best called The Century of Aberrations (TM).

Already explained where I'm coming from in the rest of the post you quoted, as while I'm sure Deng's reforms has brought them time, there's still a surplus of structural rot and the One-Child Policy fucking China over in the long term — possibly more than a few decades of Maoist rule ever had.

China might've had quite a few mad emperors and gone through some rough times that killed lots of people, but to my knowledge, they never placed a hard cap on childbearing to actively prevent population growth or replace all the people who were killed. Deng, on the other hand, has — hence why I'm betting a hundred years from now, he (alongside future CCP leaders) will probably be more reviled than Mao.

 

[Cherico]

Honestly, I think we're in for a century of real aberrations.

Already explained where I'm coming from in the rest of the post you quoted, as well as I'm sure Deng's reforms has brought them time, there's still a surplus of structural rot and the One-Child Policy fucking China over in the long term — possibly more than a few decades of Maoist rule ever had, seeing as China could've repopulated and avoided its demographic crisis if not for Deng placing a hard cap on childbearing.

I think they were due for a structural slow down due to mass urbanization. Living in a city historically hard fucks your birth rate because good luck having a large family in a tiny ass apartment. And china basically urbanized the entire country with in a generation.

So I think things would have slowed down any ways it just would have been a slightly more graceful crash.

 

[Zyobot]

I think they were due for a structural slow down due to mass urbanization. Living in a city historically hard fucks your birth rate because good luck having a large family in a tiny ass apartment. And china basically urbanized the entire country with in a generation.

So I think things would have slowed down any ways it just would have been a slightly more graceful crash.

That's true, though in any case, the One-Child Policy (and all other structural rot on top of that) probably did China in for the next couple of centuries, at least. And for me, that's enough.

Personally, I could've gotten behind China as our "Persia" if it were the Nationalists who won instead. Heck, I might've even been willing to forgive all the PRC's self-sabotage in an ATL where it ended with Mao's death and China liberalized much more fully afterwards (up to and including no One-Child Policy).

But as things are now, my confidence is waning — and eventually, will probably vanish entirely, in the all-too-likely event of China cooking up yet another Black Death-style plague that kills a few hundred-million of its own citizens when the population is already shrinking. Or, you know, something like that.

 

[Captain X]

Are you accounting for the rape of Uyghur women that China has been doing for the past few years now?

 

[Zyobot]

Are you accounting for the rape of Uyghur women that China has been doing for the past few years now?

No, not initially.

Don’t know much about it other than that it’s happening (and that Uyghurs in general are being Gulag’d), but I’d assume they’re not numerous enough to matter. And even with the “exception” the CCP made, my hunch is that many of those rapes probably end in forced abortions, just as was the case under Mao. 👿

 

[Captain X]

No, they are slaughtering the Uyghur men and forcing their women to live with Chinese men. It's pretty obvious this is meant to not only erase the Uyghurs genetically, but also to help boost Chinese birth rates. Otherwise, they would just treat the women the same as the men by sticking them in camps and harvesting their organs.

 

[Cherico]

No, they are slaughtering the Uyghur men and forcing their women to live with Chinese men. It's pretty obvious this is meant to not only erase the Uyghurs genetically, but also to help boost Chinese birth rates. Otherwise, they would just treat the women the same as the men by sticking them in camps and harvesting their organs.

Its honestly darkly hilarious to have the Arabs openly suck up to people who openely murder Islamic men and rape their women. Goes to show what they value isn't fair treatment but power and the will to use it.

 

[Zyobot]

Watch China break in new test site for giant moon rocket engines (video)

China has completed a stand for testing huge rocket engines that could power the country's moon exploration efforts.

news.yahoo.com

 

[Terthna]

I was recommended this video on Youtube talking about Falun Gong's Shen Yun dance performance, and the whole thing is just inundated with pro CCP and communist propaganda. Stuff like denying that China harvests the organs of their prisoners, and insisting that the Chinese healthcare system was way better when it was purely communistic.

I mean, not to say that Falun Gong is somehow beyond criticism, but to argue that they're just pushing propaganda when you yourself are pushing propaganda in your criticism of them reeks of hypocrisy.

 

[Yinko]

I was recommended this video on Youtube talking about Falun Gong's Shen Yun dance performance, and the whole thing is just inundated with pro CCP and communist propaganda. Stuff like denying that China harvests the organs of their prisoners, and insisting that the Chinese healthcare system was way better when it was purely communistic.

I mean, not to say that Falun Gong is somehow beyond criticism, but to argue that they're just pushing propaganda when you yourself are pushing propaganda in your criticism of them reeks of hypocrisy.

I did some research on the Shen Yun dance troupe a few months ago, couldn't find any really positive stuff about them at all. It's the propaganda arm of the Falun Gong, but they go too hard and heavy with their messaging while also not delivering on their promise of showing "traditional dance". You can find recordings of old shows, from like 2018 and so.

I do agree, a lot of reviewers seemed a bit too influenced by the CCP. One of the "dance experts" they referenced was an American who got her degree in Beijing, who claimed that traditional dance was still practiced in mainland China, which is either a blatant lie or just dumb. To be honest, if it's practiced anywhere, it would be diaspora places (Taiwant, Singapore, etc).

 

[Zyobot]

 

[TheRejectionist]

Well, we might be screwed hot damn.

 

[Zachowon]

TlDw?

 

[Zyobot]

TlDw?

After investigating them two months ago (and probably having it out for them for longer), China's finally banning imports of Micron products to major infrastructure providers on the basis of discovering "serious security issues" with their chips. Nothing specific yet, but since Micron only makes memory chips and the CCP is habitually dishonest, there's probably no imminent threat of cybersecurity problems posed by Micron products.

The consequences, obviously, are a decline in US-China trade relations. As is, there's been quite the "tit-for-tat" between them for years now, despite Biden claiming he expected relations with Beijing to improve shortly. The anchors cite a couple of examples in which they've tried setting up meetings to remove certain sanctions and have their diplomats talk things out, though how they actually pan out is anyone's guess.

 

[Zachowon]

I am glad he is doing horrible.
Make war happen sooner China