United States Biden administration policies and actions - megathread

[Carrot of Truth]

I'm not saying its gaslighting i'm more along the lines of "So what if they take Ukraine?" Like why should I care how does that affect me?

Also crack pipes for racial equity somehow!

 

[49ersfootball]

If we get involved, I'm rooting for Russia.

You are officially on the ignore list for the weekend.

 

[Captain X]

I'm not saying its gaslighting i'm more along the lines of "So what if they take Ukraine?" Like why should I care how does that affect me?

And frankly this attitude disgusts me. It is both entirely self-centered as well as short-sighted.

 

[Marduk]

I'm not saying its gaslighting i'm more along the lines of "So what if they take Ukraine?" Like why should I care how does that affect me?

Its a bit more complicated. Ukraine is not in NATO and probably won't be. NATO and USA have no duty to protect it.
What is the problem is that Russia is getting quite imperial ideas about doing business in Europe.
The question is not whether Russia takes Ukraine, the question is if Russia pays enough of a price for trying to take Ukraine, win or loss, to reconsider its ambitions and way of doing things.

 

[49ersfootball]

Its a bit more complicated. Ukraine is not in NATO and probably won't be. NATO and USA have no duty to protect it.
What is the problem is that Russia is getting quite imperial ideas about doing business in Europe.
The question is not whether Russia takes Ukraine, the question is if Russia pays enough of a price for trying to take Ukraine, win or loss, to reconsider its ambitions and way of doing things.

In other words: Ukraine will NEVER be allowed to join NATO ?

Putin cannot live forever.

 

[StormEagle]

You are officially on the ignore list for the weekend.

Him and half the members that come to the politics section at this point.

 

[49ersfootball]

Him and half the members that come to the politics section at this point.

I've also heard the British Embassy has told their Embassy staff & employees including their families to leave Ukraine ASAP.

Message to Zelensky: You're on your own dude!

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Its a bit more complicated. Ukraine is not in NATO and probably won't be. NATO and USA have no duty to protect it.
What is the problem is that Russia is getting quite imperial ideas about doing business in Europe.
The question is not whether Russia takes Ukraine, the question is if Russia pays enough of a price for trying to take Ukraine, win or loss, to reconsider its ambitions and way of doing things.

I mean I don't think Russia can take and hold Ukraine without a heavy cost but for the sake of argument lets say everything goes right for them, Then what? Like Ukraine isn't exactly prime real estate or anything. Like how does the US benefit from potentially starting WW3 from any of that? Like will we each get a share of the plunder from said war? No probably not so I literally see no point in going to war for someone who isn't even an ally.

 

[Captain X]

Russia is the one risking starting a world war over Ukraine, and as you say, apparently not for much benefit. All they need to is back the fuck off from their current course and there would be no such risk.

 

[Marduk]

In other words: Ukraine will NEVER be allowed to join NATO ?

Putin cannot live forever.

More likely, Ukraine won't be willing to do the things it would need to do in order to be allowed into NATO (like, say, dropping claims to Crimea). But if it does go such a long way, all bets are off.

I mean I don't think Russia can take and hold Ukraine without a heavy cost but for the sake of argument lets say everything goes right for them, Then what? Like Ukraine isn't exactly prime real estate or anything. Like how does the US benefit from potentially starting WW3 from any of that? Like will we each get a share of the plunder from said war? No probably not so I literally see no point in going to war for someone who isn't even an ally.

Its a lot of real estate and people, and some strategic significance, like more control over Black Sea and land connection to contested territory of Transnistria, which in turn can cause problems for Romania, NATO member, and Moldova, NATO candidate, nevermind add direct Russia border to several NATO countries.
Long story short, it would be much cheaper to break, or at least mire Russia's military in Ukraine, than wait for it to start messing with more vulnerable NATO members in several different points from Scandinavia to Turkey, which, if emboldened by a major success in Ukraine, it may well do.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

And frankly this attitude disgusts me. It is both entirely self-centered as well as short-sighted.

It's literally just political partisanship by this point. Who'd have thought "ree globalism" would make people support an aggressive dictatorship?

 

[DarthOne]

It's literally just political partisanship by this point. Who'd have thought "ree globalism" would make people support an aggressive dictatorship?

No it’s more like people are finally waking up from Wilsonian ‘city on the hill/world police BS’. Let the Europeans handle it. It’s none of our business or a threat to us.

 

[Whitestrake Pelinal]

And frankly this attitude disgusts me. It is both entirely self-centered as well as short-sighted.

A substantial chunk of Ukraine seems more interested in being Russia than Ukraine, judging by the last half-decade of fighting.

With only a handful of exceptions, the European nations have not acted like Russian aggression was problem -- they have done little to nothing to restore their armed forces to fully funded states.

America involving ourselves in this matter is retarded, and the constant push by globohomo to shove NATO right up to Russia's doorstep is obvious warmongering. It's analagous to the USSR staging nukes in Cuba, which they wisely backed off from. America has fought many needless conflicts in the last half century, it's time for a change of course.

 

[49ersfootball]

More likely, Ukraine won't be willing to do the things it would need to do in order to be allowed into NATO (like, say, dropping claims to Crimea). But if it does go such a long way, all bets are off.

Its a lot of real estate and people, and some strategic significance, like more control over Black Sea and land connection to contested territory of Transnistria, which in turn can cause problems for Romania, NATO member, and Moldova, NATO candidate, nevermind add direct Russia border to several NATO countries.
Long story short, it would be much cheaper to break, or at least mire Russia's military in Ukraine, than wait for it to start messing with more vulnerable NATO members in several different points from Scandinavia to Turkey, which, if emboldened by a major success in Ukraine, it may well do.

What are the requirements of joining NATO 🤔 ?

 

[LordsFire]

America involving ourselves in this matter is retarded, and the constant push by globohomo to shove NATO right up to Russia's doorstep is obvious warmongering.

Excuse me, but when exactly has NATO ever started a conflict with Russia, or invaded a nation to claim its territory?

 

[Whitestrake Pelinal]

Excuse me, but when exactly has NATO ever started a conflict with Russia, or invaded a nation to claim its territory?

Warmongering is not limited to those two actions, so it's not a pertinent question -- unless you're trying to establish a strawman argument to attack, of course.

Examples of NATO warmongering include the second invasion of Iraq, the use of missile strikes for assassination in multiple states, the incitement of color revolutions in multiple states, and the establishment of "no fly zones" over states in which NATO aircraft attack and destroy the air force of the occupied state.

 

[Marduk]

Warmongering is not limited to those two actions, so it's not a pertinent question -- unless you're trying to establish a strawman argument to attack, of course.

Examples of NATO warmongering include the second invasion of Iraq, the use of missile strikes for assassination in multiple states, the incitement of color revolutions in multiple states, and the establishment of "no fly zones" over states in which NATO aircraft attack and destroy the air force of the occupied state.

Seems like you are talking about actions of America and coalitions it formed for certain purposes which happened to include some NATO countries, rather than NATO itself.

What are the requirements of joining NATO 🤔 ?

This:

Minimum Requirements for NATO Membership, 97/08/15

1997-2001.state.gov

Plus for practical purposes, not being in an active or barely frozen territorial conflict for common sense reasons - if a country like that was admitted, it would mean immediate article 5, which means someone, or more likely many someones among current membership would veto it.

 

[Whitestrake Pelinal]

Seems like you are talking about actions of America and coalitions it formed for certain purposes which happened to include some NATO countries, rather than NATO itself.

"It wasn't our whole alliance, it was just some of our members" is not an argument I can imagine Russia giving any credence, and for good reason. America is the de facto guarantor of NATO agreements, the primary military power in the alliance, the primary economic power in the alliance, and we have also been the primary warmonger.

 

[prinCZess]

"It wasn't our whole alliance, it was just some of our members" is not an argument I can imagine Russia giving any credence, and for good reason. America is the de facto guarantor of NATO agreements, the primary military power in the alliance, the primary economic power in the alliance, and we have also been the primary warmonger.

*Looks at Chechnya, Georgia...Recent Kazakhstan*
That rather transparently looks like the old Russian reversal tale. The only difference being Russia's sphere of influence slash capacity to garner friends to go haring off into military expeditions isn't as great.

 

[Marduk]

"It wasn't our whole alliance, it was just some of our members" is not an argument I can imagine Russia giving any credence, and for good reason. America is the de facto guarantor of NATO agreements, the primary military power in the alliance, the primary economic power in the alliance, and we have also been the primary warmonger.

Some states that were members and some that weren't. In Libya, Jordan, Qatar, Sweden and UAE also took part. Also blame UN for giving virtue signallers an excuse.

Responsibility to protect - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In Iraq, Australia also took part.
In Syria, in the end Russia should be more concerned about Iran\Hezbollah competing over influence there because that's what they are doing