Banning all things and people Russian

[Arch Dornan]

Latvians came up with punishment for supporting Russia

The Latvian authorities have decided that everyone who expresses support for the Russian special operation in Ukraine will be deprived of citizenship. Such a bill was adopted in the second reading by the Saeima (local parliament) on 21 April. The deputies voted for amendments to the law on...

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Remember, no Russian.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Baltic countries tried to ''get rid'' of their Russian population since independence, this is the best chance they'll get.

 

[Bacle]

Baltic countries tried to ''get rid'' of their Russian population since independence, this is the best chance they'll get.

Eh, it should be handled as a long overdue illegal immigrantion matter.

Deporting Russia's 'Russian speaking minority' scheme' groups/plants from the nations the USSR oppressed is something that seems to be a no-brainer for European nations along Russia's borders.

 

[Abhorsen]

Eh, it should be handled as a long overdue illegal immigrantion matter.

Deporting Russia's 'Russian speaking minority' scheme' groups/plants from the nations the USSR oppressed is something that seems to be a no-brainer for European nations along Russia's borders.

No, it shouldn't be. Forced displacement of a minority is generally considered cultural genocide. Frankly, no government ought to have the right to deport citizens. Use of force against civilians for their political beliefs is monstrous.

 

[Zyobot]

No, it shouldn't be. Forced displacement of a minority is generally considered cultural genocide. Frankly, no government ought to have the right to deport citizens. Use of force against civilians for their political beliefs is monstrous.

Indeed.

In fact, by Latvia's logic, should America have deported Axis sympathizers during World War II? They were our sworn enemies, after all, and were up to much worse back then, compared to what Russia's doing now.

 

[Abhorsen]

Indeed.

In fact, by Latvia's logic, should America have deported Axis sympathizers during World War II? They were our sworn enemies, after all, and were up to much worse back then, compared to what Russia's doing now.

I mean, we basically did something similar (the Japanese internment camps). But that was also all kinds of fucked.

 

[Zyobot]

I mean, we basically did something similar (the Japanese internment camps). But that was also all kinds of fucked.

I know.

I was just trying to find an analogy that "better accounted" for deportees' political views, which definitely would've been the case for Axis sympathizers.

 

[Bacle]

No, it shouldn't be. Forced displacement of a minority is generally considered cultural genocide. Frankly, no government ought to have the right to deport citizens. Use of force against civilians for their political beliefs is monstrous.

'Cultural genocide' is what the Russian's were trying to do when they imported those 'Russian speaking minorities' to the Baltics and Eastern Europe, in an attempt to displace and neuter the pre-USSR cultures of said nations. These 'minorities' are not like the minorities in the west; these were people moved into the Baltic's by the USSR in an attempt to eliminate the cultures of those nations.

So deporting the Russian speaking minorities is not 'cultural genocide'; it is in fact reversing an attempt at the same by the USSR/Russia from decades ago.

So no, this isn't like the Japanese interment camps at all, and is in fact a rather bloodless, polite way to handle what the USSR did while removing a pawn(s) for Putin to fuck with.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Latvians came up with punishment for supporting Russia

The Latvian authorities have decided that everyone who expresses support for the Russian special operation in Ukraine will be deprived of citizenship. Such a bill was adopted in the second reading by the Saeima (local parliament) on 21 April. The deputies voted for amendments to the law on...

en.news-front.info

Latest news from around the world! - The loudest and most important headlines from around the world!

The loudest and most important headlines from around the world!

detv.us

Remember, no Russian.

Neither of those laws seem to ban "All Things and People Russian" as much as penalizing support for the Russian Invasion of the Ukraine (with apparently milder laws then Russia has for the inverse).

While I disagree with the latter, that still doesn't equate with me, towards the idea that they are banning "Russians."

 

[Prince Ire]

Eh, it should be handled as a long overdue illegal immigrantion matter.

Deporting Russia's 'Russian speaking minority' scheme' groups/plants from the nations the USSR oppressed is something that seems to be a no-brainer for European nations along Russia's borders.

When do the illegal American immigrants in old northern Mexico get expelled?

 

[Abhorsen]

'Cultural genocide' is what the Russian's were trying to do when they imported those 'Russian speaking minorities' to the Baltics and Eastern Europe, in an attempt to displace and neuter the pre-USSR cultures of said nations. These 'minorities' are not like the minorities in the west; these were people moved into the Baltic's by the USSR in an attempt to eliminate the cultures of those nations.

So deporting the Russian speaking minorities is not 'cultural genocide'; it is in fact reversing an attempt at the same by the USSR/Russia from decades ago.

So no, this isn't like the Japanese interment camps at all, and is in fact a rather bloodless, polite way to handle what the USSR did while removing a pawn(s) for Putin to fuck with.

No, it's exactly the same. It's just happening to the 'bad guys'.

See, cause these minorities are 'different':

These 'minorities' are not like the minorities in the west, because [insert reason]

These are people, who have lived in this country potentially their entire lives. They have a right to be there. Individual rights are what matter here. In fact, they are all that matter.

 

[Bacle]

When do the illegal American immigrants in old northern Mexico get expelled?

Do the words Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo mean anything to you, or you just looking for a cheap gotcha attempt.

Comparing the planted groups and families the USSR purposely imported to the Baltics, with the express purpose of undermining and destroying those nations pre-USSR culture, to a claim that was ceded and formally recognized more than 2 centuries, is rather laughable.

No, it's exactly the same. It's just happening to the 'bad guys'.

See, cause these minorities are 'different':


These are people, who have lived in this country potentially their entire lives. They have a right to be there. Individual rights are what matter here. In fact, they are all that matter.

You are knee jerking about this being a 'minority issue' and acting like the fact those people are only there due to Russia purposefully planting them there to destroy the local culture.

These are not organic, naturally formed minority enclaves or communities, these are planted...excuses Russia left behind to give them an in for 'protecting Russian speaking minorities' like they did in the Donbass and Georgia.

That you fail to understand the larger geopolitical and historical context of what has gone on in the Baltics due to the USSR fucking around and trying to destroy their cultures, or want to ignore it, because you still think that those 'minorities' are a natural part of the Baltics, instead of a purposeful cultural genocide/subversion attempt by the Kremlin from decades ago.

It is not a 'cultural genocide' to send Russian speakers, who have family ties to Russia already, back to Russia. Kids born in said nations can stay, I guess, but you best bet the security services will watch them like hawks because of Putin's antics and if they step out of line goodbye citizenship.

 

[Bear Ribs]

The thing I see here is that Russia is deliberately weaponizing "Russian speaking peoples." They are using these "Russians" as a causus belli to invade other nations and take them over on the grounds that these nations are Russian.

Consequently, other nations have a strongly vested interest in throwing these "Russians" out so that they no longer provide a casus belli to invade. This is simply a reasonable counter to the strategy Russia is using to justify invasions.

 

[Arch Dornan]

Neither of those laws seem to ban "All Things and People Russian" as much as penalizing support for the Russian Invasion of the Ukraine (with apparently milder laws then Russia has for the inverse).

While I disagree with the latter, that still doesn't equate with me, towards the idea that they are banning "Russians."

Everything is to fuck with Russians. It's what I see whether it's wrong or not.

 

[Abhorsen]

You are knee jerking about this being a 'minority issue' and acting like the fact those people are only there due to Russia purposefully planting them there to destroy the local culture.

No, the problem is you apparently don't care about individual rights. These are real people with real lives who live in real houses, and you want to force them to move for no good reason. Yes, your reasons are not good ones. Violating individual rights because of some 'greater good' is the pathway to serfdom.

It's wrong, sets a horrible precedent, and did I mention wrong?

 

[The One Char]

No, the problem is you apparently don't care about individual rights. These are real people with real lives who live in real houses, and you want to force them to move for no good reason. Yes, your reasons are not good ones. Violating individual rights because of some 'greater good' is the pathway to serfdom.

It's wrong, sets a horrible precedent, and did I mention wrong?

@Bacle comes from a family of lefty democrats and has joined the republican party for the purpose of turning them them into the dems of ten years ago.

He doesn't care about the things you care about.

 

[Bacle]

No, the problem is you apparently don't care about individual rights. These are real people with real lives who live in real houses, and you want to force them to move for no good reason. Yes, your reasons are not good ones. Violating individual rights because of some 'greater good' is the pathway to serfdom.

It's wrong, sets a horrible precedent, and did I mention wrong?

And the real people, in real houses, in Ukraine saw what happened when they let Putin play his games with 'Russian speaking minorities' and it's not like Russian's have made it a secret they want to punch a corridor to both Kaliningrad and Transnitria through NATO territory.

Telling Russia 'you are going to take back the people you planted in our nations, but you aren't getting any land for it' is one of the least bloody ways to remove one of Putin's levers against the Baltics and Eastern Europe in general.

You can say it's mean, say it's not nice, keep pretending that the larger context in the area doesn't matter and act like this isn't exactly the reaction Russia was banking on when it comes to those groups they planted decades ago. It won't change the fact that you are saying Russia/the USSR's 'cultural genocide' attempt is ok because it is 'in the past', while simply sending the planted Russians back to Russia is also 'cultural genocide' and cannot even be contemplated.

It's unfortunate, but the fact is Putin started this war, and he is aiming for more than Ukraine in the long run. The Baltics and Eastern Europe know what it means to be under Russia's thumb, and know how the Russian's love to import their own people to erase local cultures, which is what they attempted in the Baltics and what sending those folks back to Russia would counter.

@Bacle comes from a family of lefty democrats and has joined the republican party for the purpose of turning them them into the dems of ten years ago.

He doesn't care about the things you care about.

I never joined the GOP; I'm a registered Independent and only shifted my vote to R because of what Trump brought to the table compared to the Left's insanity.

I do not care about 'conservative' purity spirals or bona fides, or accusations assuming such matters to me. I would love a viable third party and think the two party system is poison to reasonable social and political discourse.

None of which changes that the Baltics have very good reasons to be thinking about sending Russia's plants and 'minorities' back to them, instead of letting them continue to be an excuse for an invasion.

 

[Simonbob]

Telling Russia 'you are going to take back the people you planted in our nations, but you aren't getting any land for it' is one of the least bloody ways to remove one of Putin's levers against the Baltics and Eastern Europe in general.

While I understand the point, and also Abhorsen's as well, the only point I'll add, the USSR is gone. Russia isn't the USSR.

It's a bit like holding the Communist Chinese liable for the actions of the Emperor of China's actions, 150 years ago.

Everybody seems to miss that.

 

[Bacle]

While I understand the point, and also Abhorsen's as well, the only point I'll add, the USSR is gone. Russia isn't the USSR.

It's a bit like holding the Communist Chinese liable for the actions of the Emperor of China's actions, 150 years ago.

Everybody seems to miss that.

Have you missed the Soviet Flags on Russian tanks in Ukraine, or Putin saying the break up of the USSR was the greatest tragedy of the 20th century?

Russia/Putin want the USSR back, which is part of why they invaded Ukraine. the people the Soviet Union placed in the Baltics are still there; this is a live issue, not fixed history.



The meme is real.

 

[Simonbob]

Have you missed the Soviet Flags on Russian tanks in Ukraine, or Putin saying the break up of the USSR was the greatest tragedy of the 20th century?

Yes, I did.

I'm not sure I care much, but I don't care about much. Besides, I'm pretty sure Putin can't do that, without screwing himself over.

He might, anyway. People do stupid things.



I'm still against interventionism. People not wanting to trade with Russia, over this? Sure. Frankly, I'm not going to buy Russian anymore. But, this scale of things is nuts.


The best way to keep somebody like Putin in line is to make him dependant on our trade, and not publicly pushing into a corner.