Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)
- Thread starter ParadiseLost
- Start date
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
Why is it so hard for some people to understand that Russia's military strength being broken is better for anyone who doesn't want to be a Russian puppet state?
Practically speaking they are the only direct military threat to Europe both now and in the near future. With the second Ukrainian offensive doing a pretty good job so far, it's looking like this will be where Russia's might is broken for the next generation, which is little but good for Italy, as well as every other European nation.
The only reason this is hurting Europe so much, is because of how most of Europe has spent decades committing ritual suicide in their energy sector to appease the greens.
How exactly is hanging the Ukrainians out to dry supposed to help Italy (or any other nation except Russia)?
Look, you want to be mad at somebody, be mad at Putin for being a terminally ill, suicidally glory seeking fucktard, and be mad at the radical greens who kept you and other Euro's dependent on Russian energy.
Europe had decades to get itself off Russian oil and gas, had the energy generation and oil reserves to do it (thanks to Norway and the North Sea oil fields), and chose not too.
Direct your anger at the right people, not at Ukraine for trying to survive and other's for not wanting to help Russia avoid sanctions.
You do realize what a long distance and how many countries Italy has between itself and Russia? Do you realize that many of them aren't big fans of Russia?
If you ever think of siding against the EU and NATO allies located there in favor of Russia, please realize that a lot of accidents could happen to these pipelines and there is nothing you could do about it.
So you would have even less gas and less allies in the end.
You talk about switching to the winning side in WW2 at the last minute, but in this case you would be switching to the losing side at the last minute.
What are you even doing importing gas from Russia while being a major Mediterranean basin power? Did the whole region run out of its own gas?
Instead of whining about spineless pro-NATO turncoats figure out which politicians Kremlin has bought out and pay them accordingly.
Last edited:
TheRejectionist
TheRejectionist
- Benefits the Americans and the Chinese.
- The only military threat to Europe are American nukes, which are concentrated a lot in Italy and other countries.
- I am not gonna pay for the mistakes of the green parties (which I couldn't even vote out until years ago and they were already entrenched) or American geopolitical expansionism. I am just glad the Germans are the first to feel the "hit" FOR ONCE.
- I get to watch to the countries "leaders" and their useful idiots that pushed the vax pass, liberalism and all that bullshit that came before I was born loose a battle, potentiallly billions in economic investments, one less side of the world they can control and more. What's more to ask ?
- No, I am mad at the elite in Washington and the other cabals that are control freaks as much as Stalin and want to push their degenerate anti-worker, anti-family, anti-nation and anti-monetary sovereignity that is a parasite in disguise
- Have you ever considered that maybe Europe has to get off the United States and vice versa?
- I can count many more that are rather not fans of the United States and Europe, from Mexico to Chile. From Algeria to Angola. From Turkey to India and I can go on.
- We are not gonna favor Russia, best case scenario (still very unlikely unfortunatly) we just respect our constitution (we renege war except for OUR personal defence) and we are gonna stop sending tech and shiny toys and/or money to Zelensky as long as there is a war there. And Italy is needed as much as Turkey, if not even more considering that the sultan in Ankara has decided to "play" both sides and Euramerican bloc can do shit about it.
- Well you brought up my country' "shameful" conduct. As I said above, likely we just go with stop helping Kiev. Which is fine by me just that. I would personally go neutral, neither Russia, China or the States.
- Which Putin-bought politician you talking about ? They are all declare Atlancistis or Americanophiles, even those who complained about Trump are ready to get buttfucked by whoever's charge of the White House, and a shining example of that is here, from Italy itself :
Last edited:
And they are irrelevant to the issue at hand.
Ah, so you are reneging on NATO obligations and EU obligations, putting yourself in a more isolated position than the bloody Sultan himself - even he didn't leave NATO.
What shiny toys and money is Italy sending anyway?
Even Switzerland itself has joined the EU sanctions and sends aid to Ukraine.
Switzerland adopts EU sanctions against Russia
Current information from the Federal Administration. All press releases from the Federal Administration, the departments and offices.
www.admin.ch
Further Swiss donations and help pledged to Ukraine
After the announcement yesterday of an official package of CHF8 million, Swiss cantons, institutions and public have announced further support.
www.swissinfo.ch
And what do you think would Putin bought politicians declare? Undying love for Putin? Yeah, they are stupid, but are they that stupidly obvious?
Who signed the deals to make Italy rely on gas and then to make Italy buy it from Russia of all places? That's probably who you are looking for.
TheRejectionist
TheRejectionist
And they are irrelevant to the issue at hand.
Ah, so you are reneging on NATO obligations and EU obligations, putting yourself in a more isolated position than the bloody Sultan himself - even he didn't leave NATO.
What shiny toys and money is Italy sending anyway?
Even Switzerland itself has joined the EU sanctions and sends aid to Ukraine.
Switzerland adopts EU sanctions against Russia
Current information from the Federal Administration. All press releases from the Federal Administration, the departments and offices.Further Swiss donations and help pledged to Ukraine
After the announcement yesterday of an official package of CHF8 million, Swiss cantons, institutions and public have announced further support.
And what do you think would Putin bought politicians declare? Undying love for Putin? Yeah, they are stupid, but are they that stupidly obvious?
Who signed the deals to make Italy rely on gas and then to make Italy buy it from Russia of all places? That's probably who you are looking for.
Reneging NATO would be wonderful, especially because we signed that treaty whem we were defeated. AND I don't remember any of the members being attacked, SO THERE ARE NO OBLIGATIONS besides paying lip service. NATO is just a money dump. EU treaty was signed when there were actual sovereign governments and not the Germanophiles of today. So reneging it as well would be wonderful.
I say it would be nice to leave not feasible to leave NATO.
Switzerland can do as their politicians want, but I am not Swiss. I am Italian,Spanish,Portuguese and Brazilian. I do not want my homelands to pay the price of globalists'greed for totalitarian monopoly of power and their unholy alliance of Philosemitic politicians and pseudo-Hitlerites.
Sorry but who the fuck says we can't make deals with Moscow? Italy and the Mediterranean have the absolute right to make or not make trade with Russia and not being interfered for petty past grievances that the former Warsaw Pact has. Russians have done nothing against me and vice versa.
You can find plenty of information here :
Tutte le armi che gli alleati hanno inviato all'Ucraina
Dai droni turchi Bayraktar ai missili antinave Harpoon, dai lanciamissili Javelin ai lanciarazzi Himars. Una panoplia di armamenti che sta anche creando qualche problema di logistica e rifornimenti
The pro-Putin you so speak of are none existant in Italy nowadays, you could argue I could wait and see for the upcoming election, but we know well both of us that the moment someone slightly against the White House it doesn't last long or gets the JFK treatment.
So, I consider all of pro-American politicians to be American agents and in turn, enemy agents that they anf their deserve the same treatment the Nazi infiltrators got when the WAllies were liberating France.
Article 5 is not the only NATO obligation. It's not the only article after all...
If you can't make up your mind on which you identify with then you are not the greatest poster boy for complaining about globalists.
Well if you want to argue for alternatives to that, "post soviet warlords" have rather poor advertising potential as a competing alternative.
You can make deals, but the sovereign countries between Rome and Moscow can deny you the use of their territory for the purpose of realizing them. Go build pipelines in space if you can. Sorry, if you don't want membership in alliances and free trade unions you don't get the benefits of alliances and free trade unions. Welcome to the world of medieval trade, where every city and lord on the way wanted to take a tax from all passing trade goods.
Also these grievances are neither petty nor past.
No, i won't, because i don't read Italian. However i'm pretty sure it's not Italy supplying HIMARS and Baryaktars.You can find plenty of information here :
Tutte le armi che gli alleati hanno inviato all'Ucraina
Dai droni turchi Bayraktar ai missili antinave Harpoon, dai lanciamissili Javelin ai lanciarazzi Himars. Una panoplia di armamenti che sta anche creando qualche problema di logistica e rifornimentiwww.wired.it
And yet you still can't answer a simple question. Which politicians made you require Russian gas despite the instability concern that was clear since 2014? These deals didn't sign themselves... And pretty sure these politicians didn't evaporate either.
But of course you are more interested in bitching about the West not surrendering to its enemies than people who screwed up your energy policy by designing it in an obviously risky way.
It's like Grand Theft Auto.
Look at those drifts!
Look at that bullshit indestructible tree terrain.
Look at those drifts!
Look at that bullshit indestructible tree terrain.
The US on 9/11.
It's quite interesting: Russia had a good trade relationship going on with Europe even after 2014, and it blew all of that by making a move to conquer all of Ukraine even though Ukrainians are extremely hostile towards Russia, indeed even in comparison to 2014.
Ukrainian hit squads are killing Russian occupiers and collaborators …
archived 9 Sep 2022 07:34:03 UTC
I oppose the Dugina assassination because she did not have an official government position in Russia to my knowledge--and certainly not a very prominent one--but I do think that it's perfectly fair game to kill Russian collaborators in Ukraine, unfortunately. If doing this was legitimate to Nazi collaborators in Europe in WWII, then the same should be true for Russian collaborators in Ukraine right now.
Interestingly enough, Kherson, the oblast that this is occurring in, already had over 60% of its population NOT view Russians as protectors and liberators even back in 2014:
Less than a quarter of its population held the opposite view, with the rest being undecided.
Holy Crap. They smashed through the Eastern front. Would it be fair to say that entire front is collapsing?
Carrot of Truth
War is Peace
Maybe, We will just have to see if they can keep up the momentum before the Russians can reorganize although not being able to go directly into Russia complicates things.
I would say it is a possibility but we can not be sure.
The Donbass was a feint then. It never made sense to attack Ukraine where it's defenses were strongest.
The real offensive will be across the Zaporizhzhia front. Good tank country there in Southern Ukraine. March along the Dnipro which will protect the left flank of the advance. Cut Ukraine in half.
TheRejectionist
TheRejectionist
By their Saudi Allies?
Megadeath
Well-known member
No, by disaffected Saudi Arabians (and others) who were almost as mad at their government for their US partnership as they were at the US themselves. Hell, the fact that they were "perverting" the country that kicked him out and stripped his nationality is probably a significant part of what fuelled Osama's hate at the US.
EDIT; To be clear, the actual allies of the US in the SA government are unambiguously awful. I mean, despite trumps half hearted defence of one of his rich dictator buddies, Mohammad bin Salman pretty definitely had an annoying reporter killed horrifically. And... Like way more issues that aren't even slightly relevant here. It's just a dumb stretch to suggest the SA government supported 9/11 with nothing to gain and so much to lose, in order to help people that they've been pretty actively fighting themselves for threatening their entitled position.
Last edited:
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
Running tail between legs. So much for mighty mother Russia.
Batrix2070
RON/PLC was a wonderful country.
Technically they have always been like that. If you took any diary of a Polish soldier or commander from, say, the 16th century and the 20th century, you wouldn't see much difference in the behavior of the Moscow army.
It was a horde without discipline in the 16th century, it was a horde without discipline in the 17th century, it was a horde without discipline in the 18th century, it was a horde without discipline in the 19th century, it was a horde without discipline in the 20th century, and it is a horde without discipline in the 21st century.
The problem is that while previously they could count on the human losses to make up for themselves sooner or later, thanks to the USSR and communism they lost that advantage as well.