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Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

Battlegrinder

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Obozny

Presuming they actually exist vs that map just being product of the general chaos and confusion, the concept of encircled and trapping enemy forces existed prior to the 1930s when deep battle was drawn up.

Not to mention the Ukraine's loss of Kherson and the sea of Azov.

To my knowledge, the Ukrainians were just shoved out of position there by pressure from the Russians, which is not how deep battle seeks to undermine enemy defenses.

the sheer silence from most of the Russian OMGs that have deployed compared to 1st and 2nd echelons who were allowed to keep their phones, is quite telling. We only here of these OMGs from Ukrainian Twitter accounts posting of them in areas we wouldn't be expecting them. And when the Russians reveal them, it is with embedded official reporters.

Fact is, the border fights are done, the UkA lost and is no longer able to fight a mobile defense. Now the OMGs are deploying to finish the operational encirclements of the UkA and inflict de bellatio.

Its checkmate and UkA commanders must decide if its worth it to bleed out or spare the lives of their men. Retreat isn't really an option now. That window has passed for them.

If you'll reread my post, my comment boiled down to "I don't think you're using these terms correctly, and perhaps don't understand what's going on as much as you think you do", not "please fill the thread with more RUSSIA STRONK chestbearing please".

You're correct in that that may be the literal definition, but from a practical standpoint even a BTG or two doing that counts as executing a deep battle maneuver.

Arguing that it only counts if it's a corps-level formation is basically splitting hairs.

Well, no it's not. Deep battle refers to one, very specific societ doctrine, not just the general concept of "run around behind enemy lines and blow stuff up".
 

Chiron

Well-known member
Presuming they actually exist vs that map just being product of the general chaos and confusion, the concept of encircled and trapping enemy forces existed prior to the 1930s when deep battle was drawn up.

The same could be said of the German's Bewegungskrieg, the point here is the Russians are using an old doctrinal concept updated with the inclusion of social media.

To my knowledge, the Ukrainians were just shoved out of position there by pressure from the Russians, which is not how deep battle seeks to undermine enemy defenses.

They were encircled and destroyed. The Russians had to eject them from the bridge and seize the Railway Terminal plus force the remainder to surrender.

If you'll reread my post, my comment boiled down to "I don't think you're using these terms correctly, and perhaps don't understand what's going on as much as you think you do", not "please fill the thread with more RUSSIA STRONK chestbearing please".

Yet actual facts on the ground show I am right and you are misreading the situation and still confusing how a Colonial War is fought with how a Mass Maneuver War is fought amongst Industrial Powers.

And at the end of the day, the Russians will be the ones drinking Zelensky tea, partying in his houses, and screwing his mistresses, having won and inflicted a total loss on the Ukrainian State for a relatively cheap cost.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
The same could be said of the German's Bewegungskrieg, the point here is the Russians are using an old doctrinal concept updated with the inclusion of social media.



They were encircled and destroyed. The Russians had to eject them from the bridge and seize the Railway Terminal plus force the remainder to surrender.



Yet actual facts on the ground show I am right and you are misreading the situation and still confusing how a Colonial War is fought with how a Mass Maneuver War is fought amongst Industrial Powers.

And at the end of the day, the Russians will be the ones drinking Zelensky tea, partying in his houses, and screwing his mistresses, having won and inflicted a total loss on the Ukrainian State for a relatively cheap cost.
Isn’t Zelensky bi? His mistress might be male. If you Russians are into that go ahead.
 

Battlegrinder

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Obozny
The same could be said of the German's Bewegungskrieg, the point here is the Russians are using an old doctrinal concept updated with the inclusion of social media.

And you know this.....how?

Yet actual facts on the ground show I am right and you are misreading the situation and still confusing how a Colonial War is fought with how a Mass Maneuver War is fought amongst Industrial Powers.

I'm not confusing ot misreading anything, I freely admit I have no idea what's going because I don't have the information, background, or skillset to make a clear judgement of what's happening, and I'm not following events closely precisely because trying to do is a waste of time given that I can't meaningful do anything what whatever information I collect.

What I find questionable is how you, someone that is equally as unqualified and lacking a clear view of what's happening, can possibly be so certain you're right.

And at the end of the day, the Russians will be the ones drinking Zelensky tea, partying in his houses, and screwing his mistresses, having won and inflicted a total loss on the Ukrainian State for a relatively cheap cost.

I don't think a revitalized and expanding NATO, Western nations doing everything they can to inflict economic damage on Russia in response to this, including possibly moving away from Russian energy trade to give them space for severe sanctions, and a possible years long Western backed insurgency in Ukraine is cheap. Sure, maybe the immediate term military loses are survivable, but long term.....I don't see how this works out for Russia, particularly because they're not actually gaining anything of value.

And that's if they actually win, which is not certain. Likely, yes, but not certain.
 
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Whitestrake Pelinal

Like a dream without a dreamer
I don't think a revitalized and expanding NATO, Western nations doing everything they can to inflict economic damage on Russia in response to this, 8ncluding possibly moving away from Russian energy trade to give them space for severe sanctions, and a possible years long Western backed insurgency in Ukraine is cheap. Sure, maybe the immediate term military loses are survivable, but long term.....I don't see how this works out for Russia, particularly because they're not actually gaining anything of value.
Keeping NATO off their southwestern border has immense value to Russia. The natural resources Russia could capture and exploit have value. Ending a decade of killing in Donbass has value.

As for the consequences, Euros already excluded from their sanctions the one thing that truly matters to both them and Russia, energy exports. The Euros can't cut the one tie that counts because they let silly little girls and crony capitalists make their energy policy, and Putin knows it. Much of the rest is indirectly beneficial to Putin and his allies because it weakens those in Russia who bet on globalism and trade, the potential western "color revolutionaries".
 

Carrot of Truth

War is Peace
I wouldn't be surprised if the ineptness the Russian military currently has causes a lot of complacency among NATO countries the US specifically and thats dangerous because China the real threat is a different beast all together.
 

Zachowon

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I wouldn't be surprised if the ineptness the Russian military currently has causes a lot of complacency among NATO countries the US specifically and thats dangerous because China the real threat is a different beast all together.
We see China as a threat in the US Military
 

Floridaman

Well-known member
I wouldn't be surprised if the ineptness the Russian military currently has causes a lot of complacency among NATO countries the US specifically and thats dangerous because China the real threat is a different beast all together.
Which is weird given recent experience shows plenty of ineptness in our own forces as well.
 

Chiron

Well-known member
And you know this.....how?

They deliberately masked the invasion from the only person that mattered: Zelensky, but also his own intelligence officials. They saw the Eastern Divisions actually training and talking on social media. They were calling wives, mistresses, girlfriends, and mothers saying they would be back soon and posting pictures of their return train tickets and approved leaves. They weren't even covering their vehicles in camouflage or encrypting their communications. That and being Eastern Divisions with lower readiness and lesser gear helped sell the deception.

This was in stark departure from all prior drills. As far as Zelensky could figure, Putin would pass some more gear to the separatists and there would be some skirmishing and then things die down.

Then Russian Brigade Commanders, who were organizing their troops to load up on the trains to go home, got their sealed orders from couriers. At that point it was too late to mobilize the reserves for Ukraine.

Everything else was just echelon in the attack waves as the UkA frittered away its mobile reserves in operationally useless counter-attacks which could then be pocketed and move up the OMGs in the 3rd echelon to go deep and effect the operational encirclement of the Eastern UkA units in several cauldrons.

I'm not confusing ot misreading anything, I freely admit I have no idea what's going because I don't have the information, background, or skillset to make a clear judgement of what's happening, and I'm not following events closely precisely because trying to do is a waste of time given that I can't meaningful do anything what whatever information I collect.

What I find questionable is how you, someone that is equally as unqualified and lacking a clear view of what's happening, can possibly be so certain you're right.

Considering the 'experts,' got Afghanistan wrong and so much else, I say I have as good a claim as others, especially if I turn out to be right.

I don't think a revitalized and expanding NATO, Western nations doing everything they can to inflict economic damage on Russia in response to this, 8ncluding possibly moving away from Russian energy trade to give them space for severe sanctions, and a possible years long Western backed insurgency in Ukraine is cheap. Sure, maybe the immediate term military loses are survivable, but long term.....I don't see how this works out for Russia, particularly because they're not actually gaining anything of value.

And that's if they actually win, which is not certain. Likely, yes, but not certain.

Russia has real wealth in land, resources, and energy that Europe needs or their economies collapse because trying to extract them from the 3rd world blew up in their faces.

Also as this stock trader in Russia puts it:


Yeah it will suck, but I will survive, like the last time sanctions got put on us comrades.

He even had zero fucks about it and toasted its death.



And the end phase approaches.



Intensity of the fighting.



Fighting near the largest nuclear power plant in Ukraine.



Most likely the prelude to an advance by an OMG from the third echelon units.

Which is weird given recent experience shows plenty of ineptness in our own forces as well.

Wars are not won by the most competent nations comrade, they are won by the least incompetent nations.
 

Battlegrinder

Someday we will win, no matter what it takes.
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Obozny
Keeping NATO off their southwestern border has immense value to Russia.

I'm not sure about that. The idea that NATO forces in Ukraine would be meaningfully dangerous in a way that ones in Poland aren't isn't well supported, and conquering Ukraine means those forces would them be on the russuan border. And they're likely to get more now that Finland has been talking about joining.

The natural resources Russia could capture and exploit have value.

Yes and no. They have value if someone will buy them, something that is less likely now due to Russia's invasion. Furthermore, while Ukraine has valuable resources, it doesn't apppear to have any uniquely value resources to Russia, rather there's just more of what they already have.

Ending a decade of killing in Donbass has value.

No it doesn't. Donbas is Ukraine territory, it doesn't matter one bit to Russia if people are killing each other there.

Also, the Donbas conflict only exists because Russia armed and supplied separatist forces there, so they can't even take credit for ending the crisis, since they created it in the first place.

As for the consequences, Euros already excluded from their sanctions the one thing that truly matters to both them and Russia, energy exports.

For now, yes. There's a good chance they decide to fix that by moving be more self sufficient,which will both cut into Russia's cash flows and allow Europe to levy heavier sanctions.

They deliberately masked the invasion from the only person that mattered: Zelensky, but also his own intelligence officials.

Ok, let me rephrase that more clearly. Why should I believe you, some random dude on the internet, have any clue what you're talking about when you go on about how the Russian military doctrine is a 1930s era system + twitter.

They were calling wives, mistresses, girlfriends, and mothers saying they would be back soon and posting pictures of their return train tickets and approved leaves. They weren't even covering their vehicles in camouflage or encrypting their communications. That and being Eastern Divisions with lower readiness and lesser gear helped sell the deception.

I know next to nothing about the military and even I know launching a surprise attack with unprepared, 2nd rate troops is a stupid idea. The fact that you're seeing this as someone kind of genius maneuver by Russia makes me trust your judgement even less.

Considering the 'experts,' got Afghanistan wrong and so much else, I say I have as good a claim as others, especially if I turn out to be right.

No, it makes you the military equivalent of that monkey that picks stocks by throwing darts.

Russia has real wealth in land, resources, and energy that Europe needs or their economies collapse

Yes, which is why invading Ukraine is stupid, because they don't have anything to gain. Ukraine has no vital strategic resources, only more of what Russia already has, and anything Russia gains in the invasion can't be used, because no one will buy it from them because of the invasion, and it might push the west to divest their economies from Russia.

because trying to extract them from the 3rd world blew up in their faces.

That, uh, never happened.

And the end phase approaches.

Skimming the thread, you've been saying the war is nearly in it's endgame since the war started. Why is this time the real almost ending and not all the other times you said that?
 
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Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
One important thing to note; the powers in the West did not say a word about Ukraine's recently discover it offshore oil and shale oil deposits for the entire time this conflict has been going on.

Only after an invasion occurred did that knowledge start coming out of o the public at large.

I think they did this because admitting publicly that the whole Ukraine situation was a conflict over petro-chem deposits would have hurt the 'heroic' narrative people liked to credit the Ukraine gov with, while Putin and Russia wouldn't talk publicly about the oil either, because it would hurt the 'Russian reunification' narrative Moscow wanted.

Russia should not have invaded, the West should not have tried to push NATO farther east (UkA joining NATO was first discussed in 2008, shortly after Obama was elected), Ukraine's gov has been proven to be so corrupt (regardless of the bravery of Zelenski's decision to stay in Kiev, the place was and is a corrupt shit hole of a nation before and after the Maidan), and we are likely being fed lies and propaganda by everyone in power/in DC/in the media to distract from problems at home.

This invasion should not have occurred; however the whole blasted situation (going back to what trigger the Maidan) should not have occurred. What we are seeing now is the result of a lot of stupidity, greed, pride, and ego.
 

Battlegrinder

Someday we will win, no matter what it takes.
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Obozny
One important thing to note; the powers in the West did not say a word about Ukraine's recently discover it offshore oil and shale oil deposits for the entire time this conflict has been going on.

Because it's not relevant. Russia is already well positioned as an oil exporter, particularly since Biden stopped fighting Nordstream 2 (ok, technically that's natural gas, but whatever). They don't have anything to gain by getting more oil, particularly because as a direct consequence of this invasion, the west is likely going to start looking for ways to buy less Russian energy, not more.

At least the Iraq war blood for oil BS made sense, as the US was an oil importer ar the time. Invading other countries to gain more of a resource you already have in abundance is nonsensical.
 

The Original Sixth

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And you know this.....how?

He did link to some Soviet era strategic analysis and tactics. And there is good reason to believe that while Russia has shifted to a more modern style, that they are going to draw heavily upon that playbook. The flaw that I find in his analysis comes from the idea that this is somehow a masterful stroke or strategy by Putin, though perhaps I'm misreading that. It is possible that Putin planned from the start to fool Zelensky. It could be that he gave his troops cheap radios to mislead the enemy. Be that to as part of a complicated gambit or simply to sow confusion when possible.

Russia has made a lot of mistakes in this war. And a lot of it comes from years before he actually engaged here. Letting his truck tires get so rotted out that they pop on the road to the target is just a colossal fuck-up and it has complicated their invasion plans. They can't rely on those tires during the spring thaw.



I'm not confusing ot misreading anything, I freely admit I have no idea what's going because I don't have the information, background, or skillset to make a clear judgement of what's happening, and I'm not following events closely precisely because trying to do is a waste of time given that I can't meaningful do anything what whatever information I collect.

What I find questionable is how you, someone that is equally as unqualified and lacking a clear view of what's happening, can possibly be so certain you're right.

He's drawing from these sources, or so it seems.


Yet, if that's the case, Putin hasn't done a splendid job. I think it's more likely that Western intelligence had it right; Putin had planned for a staggered invasion, taking small parts of Ukraine and trying to force Zelensky to negotiate. When that was exposed, he and his generals decided for an all-out-invasion. The fact that Zelensky believed that they weren't actually going to invade is more of a bonus, not I think, the thrust of Putin's strategic thought (as it's a rather foolish thing to bet on).

That said, there is strong reason to believe that Russia is following some more modern version of this combat doctrine, so there probably is a great deal of first and second echelon maneuvers going on. But said pdfs also highlight the difficulty that Russia is about to have; they are heavily reliant on their armor and artillery to support their war effort. They don't need it, obviously, but Moscow doesn't want high civilian causalities, so there's going to be a great deal of restraint that you would otherwise not see.

Of course, it's offset somewhat by the Russian doctrine of taking the initiative and capitalizing on it. I expect that has explained Russia's strong momentum thus far. The UKAF never really had the time to properly mobilize and its struggling under aggressive Russian advances. Those advances though, especially with improper maintenance of gear before the war and untested troops, has led to a number of embarrassing situations that Zelensky and his administration are capitalizing on to try and undermine the image of a powerful Russian Bear. That's a good strategy for Kiev, because Russia's initial hope in the invasion was a quick knock-out punch. That didn't work and there's enough moral for Ukraine to keep fighting, so Russia is going to have to fight hard and dirty.

I don't think a revitalized and expanding NATO, Western nations doing everything they can to inflict economic damage on Russia in response to this, 8ncluding possibly moving away from Russian energy trade to give them space for severe sanctions, and a possible years long Western backed insurgency in Ukraine is cheap. Sure, maybe the immediate term military loses are survivable, but long term.....I don't see how this works out for Russia, particularly because they're not actually gaining anything of value.

And that's if they actually win, which is not certain. Likely, yes, but not certain.

None of this is cheap, so I don't see where that's coming from. However, from the Russian perspective, the loss of Ukraine to NATO is simply unacceptable. Having Ukraine under possible enemy influence allows for daggers to be placed at three key weak points in Russian geography. The first dagger is aimed at the head; Moscow itself is located north of western Ukraine. There are absolutely no geographical barriers shielding Moscow from an attack from the south. The second dagger is aimed at the wheatbelt within Russia, which Ukraine's west directly leads into. The third is Crimea, where Russian has its warm water port and acts as the buffer between Russia and Turkey (also a NATO ally) and allows Russia to export to the Mediterranean and the wider world.

Now, this isn't necessarily a problem with a healthy Russia, but Russian isn't healthy. It is in fact, a declining world power. Ethnic Russians are dying out. Worse still, the most educated and competent engineers, strategists, and scientists are in their late 50s, early 60s. And most Russian men die in their early to mid 60s. On top of that, the upper echelons of Russia's government has thinned out around Putin. Because the crises Russia is facing in a decade or so is so bad, Putin has had to take more and more power unto himself in order to combat it. Similar to what Xi is doing in China. Putin isn't amassing more power in his twilight years because he's insane or power hungry--he's doing it because he has no choice. None of his predecessors have worked out. The day Putin dies, a vicious and violent civil war is very likely to erupt within the Russian Federation between the major players within Russia.

To recap; Russia's ethnic Russians are dying out (and slowly being overtaken by non-Russian, Muslim minorities), the men that allow Russia's economy, military, and society to function are dying out, and the very leadership itself has no clear succession and various power blocs willing to fight over the scraps of the Russian Federation. And it is all going to happen within the next few decades. Allowing Ukraine to join with NATO and allowing NATO a springboard into three key regions of Russia is simply not something that Moscow can accept. Especially after the US helped dispose of the Egyptian leadership--simply because they could. That was a strategic blunder that drove North Korea to develop nuclear weapons and Russia to consider NATO a threat.

Moscow has no choice but to engage in this war. They couldn't get Ukraine or NATO to agree to keep Ukraine out of NATO. They couldn't pressure Ukraine back into the fold. They couldn't play on internal divisions within Ukraine. Moscow has no choice but to invade Ukraine.

Now, as for NATO being united--that's a strong possibility now, but it's too soon to tell. It was a struggle to get Germany and Italy onboard with sanctions against Russia. And there is still the issue of energy; Europe can't just switch its energy imports overnight. Or within a year or two. This is a multi-year process. And higher gas prices affecting the rest of the world will affect Americans--who really don't care too much about the conflict and will care even less after the invasion is complete. Do you expect that Biden is going to continue to force Americans to suffer high gas prices in 2024? Or that if he does, the Republicans won't promise to ban gas exports to save people at the pump? And if Americans won't share in the pain inflicted by harsh sanctions (that they led, mind you!) then why should Germany? Or France? Or Italy? Or anyone else?

Because all of those European nations know that Russia does not have the strength to threaten all of Europe again. I doubt they have the strength to move halfway through Poland at this point, even if Ukraine fell tomorrow. Not unless the Baltic states were to fall in line under Russia without a fight and grant unconditional support, does Russia have the means of pushing into Poland. So the threat to nations like Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Hungary, Austria, and the UK is small. I don't even think Sweden will feel truly threatened.

NATO appears strong NOW. That does not make this a lasting change. Especially when the conquest of Ukraine is unlikely to last a year and it's going to take Germany years to get off Russian gas. Not to mention the loss of Ukrainian and Russian wheat is going to lead to famine across the planet. There is a good chance that Russia can endure this and simply wait for the harsher sanctions to go away. And if they don't? Well then Europe is going to have a shitload of fun trying to contain all those refugees from the Middle East and Africa.
 

Chiron

Well-known member
Ok, let me rephrase that more clearly. Why should I believe you, some random dude on the internet, have any clue what you're talking about when you go on about how the Russian military doctrine is a 1930s era system + twitter.

Simply that I'm being proved right by the hour as UkA's 'victories' get closer and closer to the Dnieper and Moldova Border.

I know next to nothing about the military and even I know launching a surprise attack with unprepared, 2nd rate troops is a stupid idea. The fact that you're seeing this as someone kind of genius maneuver by Russia makes me trust your judgement even less.

Okay genius, how high do you think the causalities would be on both sides if the UkA had mobilized in response to an obvious build up of Russian Elite troops with full assets? Answer is in the hundreds of thousands with heavy civilian causalities.

That you can't see this, especially in the age of satellites and social media, shows a fundamental misunderstanding of warfare.

The surprise factor of using the 2nd rate troops was a good and calculated risk that enabled the initial penetrations and destruction of the bulk of the UkA SOF Teams frittered away in local counter-attacks.

All the losses in those first attacks enabled Russia to dictate the flow of battle and open up more avenues of attack while leaving the UkA with no good options because all their mobile reserves were wiped out or pocketed and they are now reduced to putting hastily cobbled together scratch forces of civilians and second line troops unable to properly form strong counter-attack groups. As the Russians tighten the encirclement, UkA can form fewer and fewer counter-attacks.

So the fight is pretty much over.

So in the long run, fewer people will die as a result.

As for what Russia gains:

44 million people, the majority of whom will quietly go about their lives. A large percentage will gladly be the new elite, and a minority that will resist and promptly be hunted down to where most in that group leave or die.

The most productive farmlands in Europe along with critical resources that are now denied to Europe and can flow into the Russian economy tariff free.

This will render any sanctions useless, the tax revenue will increase, and all debts Russia owes to the west along with Ukraine's can be declared null and void. Causing a cascade of bank failures in the West which can only be stopped by massive supplies of money into the system which in turn will cause hyper-inflation. Starting a vicious cycle that will cause internal breakups of the 'West.'
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Because it's not relevant. Russia is already well positioned as an oil exporter, particularly since Biden stopped fighting Nordstream 2 (ok, technically that's natural gas, but whatever). They don't have anything to gain by getting more oil, particularly because as a direct consequence of this invasion, the west is likely going to start looking for ways to buy less Russian energy, not more.

At least the Iraq war blood for oil BS made sense, as the US was an oil importer ar the time. Invading other countries to gain more of a resource you already have in abundance is nonsensical.
The invasion is partly about keeping Ukraine from undercutting Russia gas sales to Europe, which is a huge part of the Kremlin budget.

Its also why they annexxed Crimea so fast; that gave Russia effective control over something like 80% of Ukraine's offshore deposits, while the Donbass rebels sit right on top of a huge shale oil field.

Russia could not afford to allow Ukraine to control and exploit those fields, not when it was also moving closer and closer to NATO/the EU at nearly the same time.
 

Whitestrake Pelinal

Like a dream without a dreamer
I'm not sure about that. The idea that NATO forces in Ukraine would be meaningfully dangerous in a way that ones in Poland aren't isn't well supported, and conquering Ukraine means those forces would them be on the russuan border. And they're likely to get more now that Finland has been talking about joining.
I seriously doubt that you know better than Putin in this matter. He has a decades-long history of getting his way in geopolitics, starting from a lousy post-CCP-collapse position. The western "experts" who think they know better are the next generation of McNamara's shitwits, specialized in pyrrhic victories that achieve strategic defeats.

Yes and no. They have value if someone will buy them, something that is less likely now due to Russia's invasion. Furthermore, while Ukraine has valuable resources, it doesn't apppear to have any uniquely value resources to Russia, rather there's just more of what they already have.
What they already have is working for them, and the less their strategic competitors have, the better it will continue to work for them. Oil, ores, and food are fine resources to have more of.

No it doesn't. Donbas is Ukraine territory, it doesn't matter one bit to Russia if people are killing each other there.
That is quite the assumption. Many among the next generation of potential soldiers in Russia care about such things. It's not about pretending to be the Good Guy the way the west does, it's about showing that if Russia indicates that they will fight for someone, they fight for them. Unlike the effeminate west, full of big mouths promising the world and delivering only arms sales to their own military-industrial complex.

Russia has offered powerful proofs of this in several regions now.

Also, the Donbas conflict only exists because Russia armed and supplied separatist forces there, so they can't even take credit for ending the crisis, since they created it in the first place.
It matters a lot less who started it than who finished it. Victors write the history books.
 

Chiron

Well-known member
He did link to some Soviet era strategic analysis and tactics. And there is good reason to believe that while Russia has shifted to a more modern style, that they are going to draw heavily upon that playbook. The flaw that I find in his analysis comes from the idea that this is somehow a masterful stroke or strategy by Putin, though perhaps I'm misreading that. It is possible that Putin planned from the start to fool Zelensky. It could be that he gave his troops cheap radios to mislead the enemy. Be that to as part of a complicated gambit or simply to sow confusion when possible.

Russia has made a lot of mistakes in this war. And a lot of it comes from years before he actually engaged here. Letting his truck tires get so rotted out that they pop on the road to the target is just a colossal fuck-up and it has complicated their invasion plans. They can't rely on those tires during the spring thaw.


And the alternative was what, wait for a better time and potentially give away the game plan? Again we see handfuls of Russian Equipment here and there abandoned for one reason or another, but it is not however affecting the overall advance. In fact the US in 2003 had dozens of tanks and other vehicles fall out of the formations due to a variety of mechanical issues. Many units outran their supplies, and other units had large traffic jams occur due to clearing Iraqi Forces from a road junction or due to lack of MPs doing traffic control.

What you think of as mistakes, are actually normal in a chaotic battlespace, and good commanders plan around it. Because no matter the army, you will have corrupt officers who are good at evading detection, cowards who run at the first gunshot, and those who are bad in the barracks but prove effective on the battlefields, and a wild mix and match in-between. And then there are the lucky idiots who roll up to a command post with just a belt of machine gun ammo and bluff it into surrendering.

Hence the wildly disparate results of the 1st echelon units. Some clearly got routed, some led by hard charging officers excelled and got reinforced and if those officers survive they will be promoted, but overall they were not meant to seize the country in 72 hours. Even Putin wasn't counting on that, they were meant to goad the UkA into tactically successful local counter-attacks that were operationally futile. As those counter-attacks occurred the 2nd echelon went in and took them in flank and did the pocketing of the SOF Teams and border cities. Only Kharkiv was able to avoid an operational encirclement due to being a major military hub supporting the Donbas War.

We are now in the OMG stage in which the operational encirclement of the remaining UkA is done and deep thrusts into the western parts of the country occur.

He's drawing from these sources, or so it seems.


Yet, if that's the case, Putin hasn't done a splendid job. I think it's more likely that Western intelligence had it right; Putin had planned for a staggered invasion, taking small parts of Ukraine and trying to force Zelensky to negotiate. When that was exposed, he and his generals decided for an all-out-invasion. The fact that Zelensky believed that they weren't actually going to invade is more of a bonus, not I think, the thrust of Putin's strategic thought (as it's a rather foolish thing to bet on).

That said, there is strong reason to believe that Russia is following some more modern version of this combat doctrine, so there probably is a great deal of first and second echelon maneuvers going on. But said pdfs also highlight the difficulty that Russia is about to have; they are heavily reliant on their armor and artillery to support their war effort. They don't need it, obviously, but Moscow doesn't want high civilian causalities, so there's going to be a great deal of restraint that you would otherwise not see.

Of course, it's offset somewhat by the Russian doctrine of taking the initiative and capitalizing on it. I expect that has explained Russia's strong momentum thus far. The UKAF never really had the time to properly mobilize and its struggling under aggressive Russian advances. Those advances though, especially with improper maintenance of gear before the war and untested troops, has led to a number of embarrassing situations that Zelensky and his administration are capitalizing on to try and undermine the image of a powerful Russian Bear. That's a good strategy for Kiev, because Russia's initial hope in the invasion was a quick knock-out punch. That didn't work and there's enough moral for Ukraine to keep fighting, so Russia is going to have to fight hard and dirty.

Whether you think Putin did a splendid job or not is irrelevant.

Putin had to fool only one person: Zelensky, who alone has the authority to mobilize the UkA's reserves.

Putin also only needs to beat one opponent: Ukraine, all the others took themselves out of the equation.

In this Putin unlike the US for the past few decades, is controlling the fight to his ends rather than letting it get out of control with mission creep.

At the end of the day, Putin will be the one drinking Zelensky's tea, partying in his house, and screwing his mistresses, plus most likely comforting his widow as well.
 

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