Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

Husky_Khan said:
Probably Ultra-Nationalists sprinkled with White Supremacy. Them being all Nazi or Neo-Nazis is odd since they're Slavic and Russian is their lingua franca so to speak so the Russian claims of desiring to "DeNazify" Ukraine because of their fears about them wanting to genocide Russians and Russian speakers seems questionable at best. It'd also explain their admiration of Right leaning Nationalism in other countries as well.
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Ukrainian supremacy at least. Though even leadership says about 10-20% are actually neo-Nazis, since they've been recruiting far right foreigners from 22 countries for their org. That is where the white supremacists would come in to the equation. Interestingly there are also Russia far righters in the Azov battalion.
 
sillygoose said:
Ukrainian supremacy at least. Though even leadership says about 10-20% are actually neo-Nazis, since they've been recruiting far right foreigners from 22 countries for their org. That is where the white supremacists would come in to the equation. Interestingly there are also Russia far righters in the Azov battalion.
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Some or most of the Russian volunteers fighting in the Azov battalion would also be anti-Putin opponents who couldn't get involved in the opposition activism back in Russia.

Ukraine’s other Russians
 
Zachowon said:
Since when?
What I'd he talking about?
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The whole hot potato issue with Poland trying to give Ukraine their MiGs in exchange for the US giving them some more F-16s, then the US insisting we have to take the MiGs first before they are sent to Ukraine, and now finger pointing between agencies and groups about who authorized/deauthorized/changed the plan(s) and gripes from Poland about the hang-up in it.

Seems some people in DC are worried that those MiGs, if flown into Ukrainian airspace by NATO pilots, even on a delivery run, could cause Russia to declare NATO has moved forces into Ukraine, and escalate from there.

Edit: Maybe even just NATO planes being transferred to Ukraine, not the pilots, is the issue. It's not totally clear, and I've heard different versions of what's happening from several Twitter users.
 
Bacle said:
The whole hot potato issue with Poland trying to give Ukraine their MiGs in exchange for the US giving them some more F-16s, then the US insisting we have to take the MiGs first before they are sent to Ukraine, and now finger pointing between agencies and groups about who authorized/deauthorized/changed the plan(s) and gripes from Poland about the hang-up in it.

Seems some people in DC are worried that those MiGs, if flown into Ukrainian airspace by NATO pilots, even on a delivery run, could cause Russia to declare NATO has moved forces into Ukraine, and escalate from there.

Edit: Maybe even just NATO planes being transferred to Ukraine, not the pilots, is the issue. It's not totally clear, and I've heard different versions of what's happening from several Twitter users.
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They arnt wrong thiugh.
If things take off from NATO airspace, and are fighters, and even with Ukrainian markings, it would look like NATO is disguising forces to fight in the war.

I think both the US and Poland are trying to find a way. Be it redoing all the language internals, take out any western things Poland had.
Stuff like that to prevent it getting in Russian hands.
Remeber Russia knows a thing or two about sending fighters with pilots into a war zone against America.
 
Zachowon said:
They arnt wrong thiugh.
If things take off from NATO airspace, and are fighters, and even with Ukrainian markings, it would look like NATO is disguising forces to fight in the war.

I think both the US and Poland are trying to find a way. Be it redoing all the language internals, take out any western things Poland had.
Stuff like that to prevent it getting in Russian hands.
Remeber Russia knows a thing or two about sending fighters with pilots into a war zone against America.
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Oh, I do not doubt that some of the people involved are just trying to figure out how to make this exchange work. I do expect any NATO stuff or equipment would have to be stripped, and changing out internal language in the exchange agreement makes sense.

However there is also the issue of some people are starting to wonder if Poland is trying to get it's own imperial ambitions back under guise of NATO and fighting Russia over Ukraine.

I don't really think Poland is trying to recreate it's old Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth/empire, however the Polish paranoia and anger at Russia, and both nations historical ties/claims over Ukraine, means that some may try to pin the blame for starting WW3 on Poland, if this jet exchange causes an escalation.

I think it's that everyone feels like we are moving closer and closer to the beginning of a war that could effectively destroy modern human civilization across the globe, and no one wants to be the one who is remembered as starting said war when civilization finally rebuilds itself.
 
Bacle said:
Oh, I do not doubt that some of the people involved are just trying to figure out how to make this exchange work. I do expect any NATO stuff or equipment would have to be stripped, and changing out internal language in the exchange agreement makes sense.

However there is also the issue of some people are starting to wonder if Poland is trying to get it's own imperial ambitions back under guise of NATO and fighting Russia over Ukraine.

I don't really think Poland is trying to recreate it's old Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth/empire, however the Polish paranoia and anger at Russia, and both nations historical ties/claims over Ukraine, means that some may try to pin the blame for starting WW3 on Poland, if this jet exchange causes an escalation.

I think it's that everyone feels like we are moving closer and closer to the beginning of a war that could effectively destroy modern human civilization across the globe, and no one wants to be the one who is remembered as starting said war when civilization finally rebuilds itself.
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Why are people making it seem like the US are pushing the Polish to do it then if they want to do it?

I they cause it why are people thinking we are responsible
 
Zachowon said:
Why are people making it seem like the US are pushing the Polish to do it then if they want to do it?

I they cause it why are people thinking we are responsible
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I'm just guessing the jet exchange was one of those things where a bunch of people in the US and Poland thought it was a good idea at nearly the same time, decided to authorize it before completely thinking through the details of accomplishing said plan, and then realized that if they do it the wrong way, it could be seen as NATO officially entering on the side of Ukraine with military forces.

Then the whole thing got out into the media ecosystem, got mixed in with the propaganda and bullshit flying around, and mixed with the fears of how we seems to be on a road to nuclear annihilation because, as they see it, Polish paranoia and jingoism regarding Russia is part of what caused the Maidan and lead to the current clusterfuck.

I wouldn't give a lot of credence, but on some of the vids of Putin's recent speeches/interviews, he's mentioned Poland and Autria-Hungry as primary antagonist towards Russia (seems he views Europe of today much as if is was still 1900 or 1800). Which, well, has some truth to it, due t old European grudges/histories, but is rather mostly bullshit for internal Russian propaganda.
 
Bacle said:
I'm just guessing the jet exchange was one of those things where a bunch of people in the US and Poland thought it was a good idea at nearly the same time, decided to authorize it before completely thinking through the details of accomplishing said plan, and then realized that if they do it the wrong way, it could be seen as NATO officially entering on the side of Ukraine with military forces.

Then the whole thing got out into the media ecosystem, got mixed in with the propaganda and bullshit flying around, and mixed with the fears of how we seems to be on a road to nuclear annihilation because, as they see it, Polish paranoia and jingoism regarding Russia is part of what caused the Maidan and lead to the current clusterfuck.

I wouldn't give a lot of credence, but on some of the vids of Putin's recent speeches/interviews, he's mentioned Poland and Autria-Hungry as primary antagonist towards Russia (seems he views Europe of today much as if is was still 1900 or 1800). Which, well, has some truth to it, due t old European grudges/histories, but is rather mostly bullshit for internal Russian propaganda.
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Most likely propaganda of the Russian variety
 
The Original Sixth said:
No. I don't need to make any excuses for Russia.

It's just common sense that in a urban environment, fireteams in the UKA are going to take the most advantageous positions they can. They're going to camp where they think they're safe. And those areas are not limited to, but will inevitably include those areas. And it is natural for the Russians to try and take them out from those positions. And therefore, the Russians will inevitably end up destroying schools, churches, houses, apartment blocks, and the like. And the Russians will also end up missing or misidentifying targets--and taking out areas without soldiers anyway.

And I've seen some evidence that the UKA is doing this. Unconfirmed, I will grant you, but I've seen it.

Now, it strikes me as reasonable that the UKA knows about the tactical advantages that these places offer and have used them. It also strikes me as reasonable that they figure the Russians will attack those positions, once they're aware of them. And it also strikes me as reasonable that Zelensky--who has consistently tried to obtain more sympathy and help from the West, has every incentive to mischaracterize tactical engagements between his forces and Russian forces as the Russians maliciously targeting buildings.

That's not to say that the Russians are being nice by blowing those buildings up with artillery and tank rounds, when they could use less destructive means. It just not malicious or unreasonable for the Russians to do so.
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You think that the Ukranians could be making up the Russians losses as well ? Because I have an hard time seeing as a realistic for over 6 thousands losses for the RAF in a war that started a few weeks ago.
 
Zachowon said:
Not true bit olay


More reliable then Russian sources.
Plus if OSINT backs the information then it works.
Most Russian sources dint have the same amount if back up for its information.
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DoOqF_RUYAAWakg

I am kinda skeptical at best of Ukranian sources due to the simple fact that their president openly shutdown 3 tvs that were critical of him and that everyone is basically bombarding me with pro-Ukranian messages.
Considering also that I remember you being much in for a pro-Ukranian American intervention even before the conflict started because "Muh freedom" which would involve helping funniliy enough a Philosemitic president and Neonazi influences which are both conveniently obfuscated just enough for most people not to notice them and OSINT still would likely rely on information on the ground and the Russians ain't in the mood to share. Considering a couple of BIG stories involving Ukranian heroism turned out to be made up at best and the pro-Ukraine camp is an unholy alliance of leftists, liberals, neocons, social democrats supporting Bandera's symbolical grandchildren, the only resources I would rely on would be the one of the refugees that already here in Milano, Italy.

Yes there already here and have already surpassed the other 5 EU countries. They aren't exactly reporting good perfomance on the battlefield beyond them having shiny "Western toys" and resisting "better than expected".
 
TheRejectionist said:
DoOqF_RUYAAWakg

I am kinda skeptical at best of Ukranian sources due to the simple fact that their president openly shutdown 3 tvs that were critical of him and that everyone is basically bombarding me with pro-Ukranian messages.
Considering also that I remember you being much in for a pro-Ukranian American intervention even before the conflict started because "Muh freedom" which would involve helping funniliy enough a Philosemitic president and Neonazi influences which are both conveniently obfuscated just enough for most people not to notice them and OSINT still would likely rely on information on the ground and the Russians ain't in the mood to share. Considering a couple of BIG stories involving Ukranian heroism turned out to be made up at best and the pro-Ukraine camp is an unholy alliance of leftists, liberals, neocons, social democrats supporting Bandera's symbolical grandchildren, the only resources I would rely on would be the one of the refugees that already here in Milano, Italy.

Yes there already here and have already surpassed the other 5 EU countries. They aren't exactly reporting good perfomance on the battlefield beyond them having shiny "Western toys" and resisting "better than expected".
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Ukraine is still more likely using more factual based arguments then that of Russia.
Russia recently admitted they were using conscripts and that was found out through Ukrainian media and OSINT before they admitted it.
 
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