That's impossible because America lost in Vietnam.
Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)
- Thread starter ParadiseLost
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That's impossible because America lost in Vietnam.
paulobrito
Well-known member
That depends on the tech you are talking.
Electronics/miniaturization? Sure.
Tanks? Late 70's, not so much.
Fighters? Early F-16 and MiG-29 are similar. Kinematic-wise, Su-27, and F-15 are equal in the early years, before computers and advancements in radar expanded the gap - that is again late 80s and after
Rocket arty? Nope. Tube arty? Nope.
IADS? Nope.
The big jump in tech was in the late '80s and even more with the collapse of the USSR when one side basically stopped advancing most of its tech for many years.
BTW, Kiev already confirmed that is not a Kinzhal.
We can see how outdated Russian tech is and has been.
Literally, Soviet equipment vs top of the line US, as seen in Iraq was not enough to stop the NATO firepower.
And as we can see in Ukraine.
Russians have been horribly over stating capabilities for years
paulobrito
Well-known member
Iraq - is the early 90s, the latest US against at least 20 years old Soviet. And, on top of that, a professional army (armies to be exact, several nations are present) against a joke of an army. In Iraq, you can have definitively swapped the hardware and get the same result.
You somehow manage to be right and wrong all the same time. "Electronics" are a catch all term that makes something like 80 to 95% of the difference between a 70's F-16 and a brand new prototype variant F-16. Most of advances in tanks, artillery, IADS and so on are also based on electronics, and so the differences are in electronics.
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Bad training and tactics =/= bad equipment as seen by the fact that the Ukrainians are using their Soviet inherited stuff much more competently and effectively.
paulobrito
Well-known member
That is perfectly right. But what I'm saying is that in the late 70s, the difference in electronics between the US and the USSR is much smaller than today or in the 90s.
Ukraine is complicated.
Many of the abysmal failures of the Russian Army have nothing to do with the hardware. For example, you can have changed the tanks to M1 Abrams and the result is mostly the same. All tanks in the world are vulnerable to top-down attack and arty after all.
The biggest failures are in the organization, time to respond (Russian and before that USSR reacts too slowly compared to Western armies), and principally logistics.
Russian logistics in Ukraine are so bad nobody is counting on that.
The way they lost the Moskva is so idiotic that defies reason - all defense systems inoperational and moving in the same route, time and again? Madness.
If they have good logistics and organization you don't see that baffling massive kilometers-wide convoy in the first days of the war for example.
If they have decent intelligence, they know that Ukraine is not going to play dead in a few days.
Many of the worst problems of Russia in Ukraine are not related to hardware.
With good intelligence, logistics, and organization they won the war a long time ago. They still don't have it, more than a year later.
Ukraine is complicated.
Many of the abysmal failures of the Russian Army have nothing to do with the hardware. For example, you can have changed the tanks to M1 Abrams and the result is mostly the same. All tanks in the world are vulnerable to top-down attack and arty after all.
The biggest failures are in the organization, time to respond (Russian and before that USSR reacts too slowly compared to Western armies), and principally logistics.
Russian logistics in Ukraine are so bad nobody is counting on that.
The way they lost the Moskva is so idiotic that defies reason - all defense systems inoperational and moving in the same route, time and again? Madness.
If they have good logistics and organization you don't see that baffling massive kilometers-wide convoy in the first days of the war for example.
If they have decent intelligence, they know that Ukraine is not going to play dead in a few days.
Many of the worst problems of Russia in Ukraine are not related to hardware.
With good intelligence, logistics, and organization they won the war a long time ago. They still don't have it, more than a year later.
This well known thing is a very good point in case:
en.defence-ua.com
www.thetimes.co.uk
One of the biggest advantages Ukraine has over Russia is... how they have integrated soviet era artillery with modern electronics, UAVs, and organization to take advantage of it.
How the "Kropyva" Combat Control System Helps in the Most Difficult Situations: Fortified Positions Couldn’t Save russian Army | Defense Express
The Armed Forces of Ukraine use all available equipment to destroy the russian army
en.defence-ua.com
Uber-style technology helped Ukraine to destroy Russian battalion
Artillery-aiming technology that works like the Uber app helped Ukrainians destroy almost an entire Russian battalion in a single attack.
www.thetimes.co.uk
They have been using more modern equipment and house made stuff.
They are making do, but as Marduk points out.
It isn't purely Soviet vs Soviet tech
The video of his arrest... Wow dudes a fucking slob.
Hope they don't torture him. Like force him to sing the Ukrainian National Anthem of the adopted country he loves so much.
Edit:
Maybe they just caught him in the middle of applying hair gel.
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Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
Christ, that is some serious commitment to one’s own autism to get arrested for big daddy Putin.
I have more appreciation for that Simpsons clip now.
Some small resort town in America having an annual celebration of Hannibal Crossing the Alps with a full parade including elephants for no particular reason sounds like the most amazingly random thing.
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
I'm curious then, how many Abrams did those insurgents on bicycles destroy?
paulobrito
Well-known member
Ask the Iraq Army.
You brought it up. How are they doing now?
Oh thank goodness for Kadyrov. No gap in the line if the Wagnerites fall back from Bakhmut!
His mere presence alone could fill a considerable gap in the line.
Another meme.
Thank you Fifth Element.
His mere presence alone could fill a considerable gap in the line.
Another meme.
Thank you Fifth Element.
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
No, I'm asking you. Actually present some information, or admit your point was bogus.
Even tanks aren't the best comparison; nowhere is technological capability so important as in air combat and defense, missile technology included.