Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

TheRomanSlayer said:
Possible, although that would have resulted in a much more costly expansion.

Another thing that comes to mind is that a Catholic Russia would have required a massive change of mindset in how they run their government. Orthodox Russia still has that Byzantine influence in how they run things, but mixed it with Mongol influence.
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Why else would relations with Russia's non-Christian minorities have soured if Russia would have become Catholic?
 
Arch Dornan said:
It already has. As I said their leader got greedy. There were elements that wanted a new liberal tsar rather than the old despotic one and would support a Polish prince once they converted to orthodoxy and gave back the fortresses they captured. The son was willing but the father was not and wanted to have his cake and eat it so they resisted and those that were willing to capitulate joined them and the fabled Polish Lithuanian Muscovite Commonwealth was gone just like that.
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ATP said:
Unfortunatelly,he was not greedy,but pious - and want save moscovite souls now,not waiting 100-200 years.
Both russians and poles suffered for it.
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WolfBear said:
Even if the Russians would not have become Catholic, it would not have been a huge deal once the era of mass secularization would have come around. Nowadays, even in the more religious US
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Wrong gentlemen, the real reason is much more prosaic, for as it turns out, contrary to myths, Sigismund III Vasa, although pious, was nevertheless tolerant of other faiths, during his reign Lutheran masses were held at Wawel(sic!) and the king himself did not shy away from life and even liked to play goldsmith.
Ba did a piece of work, and also liked to paint made a series of his own paintings as well as collecting them.
The problem is that everything was later stolen by the Swedes/Russians unnecessary chalk from the royal castle in Warsaw.

The real reason was that Hetman Stefan Żółkiewski, who had been given full power to negotiate peace, exceeded it significantly by promising the boyars that Wladislav IV would convert to Orthodoxy, become a tsar and PLC would give back all the castles and cities captured during the last war.
The king could not agree to the latter, so he had a choice, a vague possibility that his son would become tsar, but there was a good chance that he would simply be assassinated like the previous one because Moscow was not safe then, or he would make it so that no one could be put on the Moscow throne, but the war gains that were already real would remain with PLC.
And it should be added that Ladislaus IV was already in his youth a beloved royal son, as, by the way, all three of Sigismund's sons, and Sigismund himself was not a heartless son of a bitch. Nevertheless, he loved and cherished his children. So seeing the real fear of losing his son in this way, he decided the game was not worth the candle.

The problem with Sigismund's bad face was that someone had to be made a scapegoat in this era and since Bathory was loved for Inflants, Ladislaus for Smolensk and that he was the last barrier of security against the Cossack rebellion, John Casimir as a dedicated ruler who, seeing the stupidity of the nobility, gave up the crown it went to Sigismund even though he was in fact... the best electoral king of all?
The only one who understood what the whole deal was about and at the same time didn't let himself be swayed by some chancellor? And his rule was stable, and the PLC grew.

It is only since the 1980s that the historiography has begun to unscrew his bad legend, but these facts have not yet reached the public. But slowly this is changing.
 
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Honestly, Russia staying Orthodox did provide the kind of continuity to the whole Byzantine tradition that was needed, and had Russia become Catholic by Sigismund III, the other Orthodox Christians living elsewhere would have started to accept more of Ottoman rule than be freed by Catholics.

As a former Catholic myself, I would not want to live in a world where Catholicism reigns supreme. That's why many people like myself who come from a certain Catholic SE Asian country often blame the Catholic Church for making us backward.
 
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Russian Orthodox Priest Attacks a Ukrainian Orthodox Priest With the Cross... Literally Speaking, Not Figuratively.



This apparently occurred at a funeral for a fallen Ukrainian Soldier. The Ukrainian Priest apparently took the opportunity to state that they should abandon the Moscow Based Patriarchate Due to Its Support Of the Russian Invasion of Ukraine, thus provoking this reaction.
 
Any Russian who supports Putin's invasion of Ukraine, especially if they're a Russian nationalist, should give their eldest son and heir the first name Putin. There actually is a somewhat different precedent for this, albeit in Latin America:


Imagine Putin Anatolyevich Karlin, the eldest son and heir of Anatoly Karlin and also a gentle soul. :D
 
Arch Dornan said:
If you look at that way out of piety but to me he wanted it all way too fast rather than doing it slowly as you said which is quite greedy to me when he already got lucky with the Dmitri affair to reach that far.
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Maybe? i read once that he wanted use Moscov as weapon to retake Sweden for himself,and that he never considered Poland as anything more than tool to retake Sweden,too.

Personally,i doubt it - He was one of better Kings Poland had,for example never tried to become absolute monarch.And,becouse he gave positions and lands only to those who served in military,winged hussarls remained elite during his reign.

But,he really was very pious - so,maybe he considered making Moscov catholics as his duty.

P.S @Batrix2070 is right,boyars murdered Borys Godunow,his son,so why Zygmunt son should be safe?
 
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Husky_Khan said:
Russian Orthodox Priest Attacks a Ukrainian Orthodox Priest With the Cross... Literally Speaking, Not Figuratively.



This apparently occurred at a funeral for a fallen Ukrainian Soldier. The Ukrainian Priest apparently took the opportunity to state that they should abandon the Moscow Based Patriarchate Due to Its Support Of the Russian Invasion of Ukraine, thus provoking this reaction.
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Nothing is sacred.
 
gral said:
The narrator's voice cracks me up.
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Indeed.I imagined big muscle gorilla with even bigger mace.KGB is famous for its agents - why they do not choose somebody with good voice? or,even better ,some sexy girl with even better voice? they certainly have them.
I start loosing my childchood faith in powerpuff kgb.
 
WolfBear said:
eurasiantimes.com

Russia Releases 'Future Map' Of Ukraine; Reduces Europe's Biggest Country To Kyiv While Russia Absorbs The Rest

Deputy chairman of Russia’s Security Council and Former President – Dmitry Medvedev has posted maps to illustrate what he believes would be the fate of Ukraine. According to Medvedev, Ukraine would probably be reduced to Kyiv and its surrounding areas. On July 27, Medvedev shared two maps in a...
eurasiantimes.com eurasiantimes.com
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Yikes, the potential Polish and Romanian gains are just as overkill as Russian gains. Romanian annexation of Vinnytsia? Dude must be playing too much EUIV, and ditto with a Polish expansion up to Zhytomyr.
 
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