Belarussian opposition agrees.
The Ukrainian General Staff claims lots of nonsense.
Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)
- Thread starter ParadiseLost
- Start date
>actually winning
>had half a Vietnam War worth of US losses in 4 months and didn't win yet
This is actually normal for modern warfare industrial level war is brutal as hell. The us is actually pretty damned good by historical standards.
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
'Got their asses kicked in the West and North, in a near-stalemate in the East and South,' is not 'winning.'
If they manage to cross the Dneipr en masse, or mount a second thrust towards Kyiv, one that succeeds this time, then you can say they're winning. In the meantime, we're still waiting to see who runs out of supplies and will to fight first.
The Ukrainian General Staff claims lots of nonsense.
It was posted about in the main Invasion Thread last Weekend as well.
sillygoose
Well-known member
You need to vary your media diet:
So basically Polish state media and EU parliament aligned.
So? Poland, EU, Ukraine...
Who else do you expect to talk about something like that if it was true?
Do you expect Russia to go "yeah, we are running out of arty ammo so we have to mooch off Luka's stockpile" if it was true?
sillygoose
Well-known member
American and British media for one, though they have been repeatedly embarrassed by their million articles about how Russia is just about to run out of guided missiles, which they started publishing in March and keep recycling every month. Belorussian dissidents and the Polish foreign office are hardly unbiased sources. Just like you shouldn't trust TASS and Russian backed media for accurate info. Do you trust RT America's perspectives on things in the US? Frankly at this point I highly doubt that anyone is saying what is actually going on with any of this, as actual accurate intel is very precious and not for public consumption. Media for public consumption is basically propaganda on all sides.
As you ask:
UK Defense Ministry: Russia is sending equipment from Belarus to boost its assault in eastern Ukraine
Fighting has intensified in eastern and southern Ukraine after the sinking of Russian flagship Moskva in the Black Sea.
And Russia is using Soviet era anti ship missiles to do cruise missile's job just to let them save face!
Bassoe
Well-known member
And it's working. This whole proxy war has been gigantic demonstration of just how much money the American military-industry complex has been embezzling by comparing the result to a rival military which simultaneously has much lower costs and doesn't get driven out of their colonies by barbarian hordes with rusty ex-soviet equipment.
History Learner
Well-known member
No, what eliminates the "context" of the 100k figure is that nowhere in it does it say civilian, it uses the word Ukrainian; you took that, because of your nature, as meaning what you wanted it too. The only part that does talk about civilian casualties is the OHCHR and the fact they don't comment on that is because there is no evidence for the 100,000 number being mostly civilians. Hell, CNN even did an interview with the guy and asked him directly; he refused to elaborate how many of 100,000 figure were civilian. Tell me, why he would do that if the majority are civilian? The propaganda value of that is obvious.
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
...Are you serious?
History Learner
Well-known member
They're admitting it now, even lol.
Arch Dornan
Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
Aren't they much cheaper than the the high tech missiles by default ?
As much as I hate to admit it he has a point.
But the problem with that point is that the Ukraine is not a peer competitor to russia, really most people expected Russia to win with in a couple of weeks the fact that their doing as badly as they are is a supprise.
So Russia has altered their tactics now their destroying everything.
They blow up any and all infostructor with dumb artiliery rounds, if people become refugees and flee they consider it a win if their killed then they don't care. Its pretty much war crimes and genocide and I give it a good chance of working because the only way russia stops fighting a war is if they cant fight any more.
That means the Ukranians have to kill at least half a million russians, not wound not injure kill. That's the bare minimum because in the first world war they lost over 2 million people before they screamed uncle, and in the second world war they lost at least 20 million.
So can Ukraine kill that many russians? I honestly doubt it, I think they will inflict horrific damage on the russian people and when Russia collapses again Ukraine will be reborn, but win this war....um yeah in the long term I doubt it. Russia will pay for it in blood of course but they have more people and zero sense of morality so I'm giving them the edge.
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
He really doesn't. The US military has utterly crushed every enemy it's fought since the Vietnam war. Politicians trying to use it for tasks it isn't fit for has eventually resulted in withdrawals with no ultimate objectives achieved, sometimes because there aren't any ultimate objectives at all.
To be fair, the Taliban were tiny, on top of being very poorly equipped. Iraq, on the other hand, had a massive military, over 600k men, and thousands of tanks, artillery, etc, the same sort of soviet equipment Ukraine has. Oh, and the US carried out those campaigns from the far side of the world.
Ukraine is literally half-surrounded by Russia and Belorussia, and the Russians haven't managed to successfully carry out the initial crushing victory, much less get to the 'decades of occupation' part of things. On top of that, the largest Ukrainian victory, stopping the push on Kyiv and then turning it back, were won before bulk western aid was mobilized, so that much can reasonably be said to have been accomplished by their own strength and will to fight.
Then there's the casualty disparity. US losses in the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were miniscule. Sustained losses over time did gradually add up, but you had to go months to have the same number of KIA Russia has taken in days during their invasion of Ukraine.
No, the Russian military is not outperforming the US in spite of lower spending. It's actually underperforming compared to the expectations that were calibrated based on its lower spending. They may still win by sheer advantage in size, that's far from impossible, but even if that does happen, they've already thoroughly humiliated themselves on the world stage, and driven two more nations into NATO.
(Note that I'm not trying to argue that the US military-industrial complex doesn't have embezzlement and corruption issues. It does. They just demonstrably aren't anywhere near as bad as Russia's.)
Could Russia beat the US and western europe in a conventional war?
No thats why we are funding the Ukraine because we want this to be Russias last war. We do not want them to escalate to nuclear war and we understand that the Ukraine would not be the end of it. The problem is Russia is one of those countries that you absolutely have to fucking gut before they give up.
And I don't think its likely the Ukraine can do that.
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
Oy, you four bamboozle off to DumbAss already!
