Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
Kuwaiti incubators, Saddam's WMDs, the ones that Zach's or Bush's or Blair's dog probably ate.
The Lusitania carrying war material, although that was in no small part due to the British's machinations.
Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)
- Thread starter ParadiseLost
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The Lusitania carrying war material, although that was in no small part due to the British's machinations.
Also, the whole Libya fiasco.
Historically the majority of conflicts the US has been involved in did come about partly do to US subterfuge and dirty dealing. The 'righteous' conflicts are really only the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, the Civil War, WW2, and the Gulf War (though we fucked up the follow through).
The current situation in Ukraine is partly the result of US fuckery during the Maidan, however it is Russia who decided to engage in an invasion/landgrab attempt and is making noises about taking parts of the the Baltics, Balkans, and Poland when they are done in Ukraine.
None of the US fuckery justified this invasion by Russia.
However much we screwed around there, we did not attempt to engage in fucking genocide, mass abduction/deportation, or fucking around in Chernobyl.
Edit: Forgot the Korean War, partly because it's not really over.
Historically the majority of conflicts the US has been involved in did come about partly do to US subterfuge and dirty dealing. The 'righteous' conflicts are really only the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, the Civil War, WW2, and the Gulf War (though we fucked up the follow through).
The current situation in Ukraine is partly the result of US fuckery during the Maidan, however it is Russia who decided to engage in an invasion/landgrab attempt and is making noises about taking parts of the the Baltics, Balkans, and Poland when they are done in Ukraine.
None of the US fuckery justified this invasion by Russia.
However much we screwed around there, we did not attempt to engage in fucking genocide, mass abduction/deportation, or fucking around in Chernobyl.
Edit: Forgot the Korean War, partly because it's not really over.
The fact their lies are completely transparent have never stopped them from lying about something in the past.
Buba
A total creep
At my son's workplace - with large number of Ukrainians of both sexes - last Monday many of the men were absent.
The word was that "they are waiting on the outcome of a vote of the Ukranian Parliament" - supposedely there was a Bill under which "report to your Area Replacement Command ASAP or get a five year prison sentence when you set foot back in the country".
On Tuesday manning levels reverted to normal, the word being "Bill did not get passed".
Can't find anything about such a vote on the web. So, it was just the rumour mill at my Sweet Baboob's workplace?
The word was that "they are waiting on the outcome of a vote of the Ukranian Parliament" - supposedely there was a Bill under which "report to your Area Replacement Command ASAP or get a five year prison sentence when you set foot back in the country".
On Tuesday manning levels reverted to normal, the word being "Bill did not get passed".
Can't find anything about such a vote on the web. So, it was just the rumour mill at my Sweet Baboob's workplace?
TheRejectionist
TheRejectionist
Frankly, the only country so far to use that tactic was yours.
Megadeath
Well-known member
Bullshit.
"It's just a training exercise on Ukraine's doorstep. Please stop with the ridiculous invasion alarmism."
"The only people dropping chemical weapons in Syria are the rebels. Please ignore that they have neither chemical plants nor an air force." "Those people we don't like probably poisoned themselves with radioactive isotopes and soviet chemical weapons to make us look bad!"
"Bill Browder deserves to be in prison, he didn't pay his B̶r̶i̶b̶e̶s̶ taxes."
Don't even get started on the countless crisis in the former USSR involved. I mean I acknowledge the U.S. shitty history in provoking conflicts but using it to dismiss Russia's own poor actions is just blame shifting.
The Russians chose to invade Ukraine, nobody truly made them do anything and bottom line at the end of the day want the Ukrainians want their countries independence not to be absorbed by Moscow.
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Battle for Donetsk Airport: Haunting Documentary Captures Ukrainian Resilience
A haunting message from a Ukrainian soldier closes "Airport Donetsk," a documentary about the 200-day siege that ended in January 2015."I can't sleep at
www.atlanticcouncil.org
Airport Donetsk, a documentary that all the media stations should be showing instead of fanning the flames
According to President for Life Lukashenko it looks like Poland and the Baltic Countries have run out of Buckwheat and Salt. Only Belarus can supply them. Border is flooded with food refugees from the West.
Too bad for Europe.
Too bad for Europe.
are you trying to say that the Russian Federation, instigated this war?
how would daily life change for the people of Ukraine, whether in western sphere of influence, or the sphere of influence of Russia? would daily life be better, worse, or stay the same? Ukrainian people are being killed and displaced because their commanders sent them to the butcher to save their own crooked lifestyles
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@Marduk you in line at the border? I bet it must be a heart breaking sight
Yes Russia instigated this war.
I mean it sure seems the Ukrainians are more defending thier home land then being sent to die for not surrendering.
But yes it is to save thier crooked life styles.
Yet Russians have had more generals die and showed just how crooked they are. Sending troops in with no rations for extended combat but thier Parade uniform
I am saying it takes two to damn well tango and that for all the Russians and their proponents/shit eaters bluster of removing Nazi's from the Ukranian government, the bottom line of the situation is that the average Ukranian wants neither Russia nor Nazi's quiet equally at the end of the day, the Russians aren't doing this for the Ukrainians sake merely their own self-interest and even then, they wish to remove one corrupt form of government and install their own form of corrupt government that's loyal.
Governments have national interest, and I won't deny that mines as a people 'USA' is to keep the Russians in the mud and out of Ukrainian and the Ukrainians themselves interest is to remain an independent people. But God forbid everyone doesn't immediately assume Putin's Russia to be in the Ukraine of charity work because they are above such petty impulses as National interest.
So yes, I am blaming Russia for a majority of this conflict. They were the ones who greenlit the invasion regardless of any excuse they had for it and ultimately, they were asking for it after repeatedly infringing on Ukranian territory after the border was settled back in 1991.
so, the Russian Federation is just supposed to allow foreign and hostile interests to take over a border territory, with deep historical ties back to the middle ages? come on now, think rationally. Ukraine is in Russia's sphere of influence. period. Ukrainian leaders, if they actually had the best interest of their people in mind, would have acted accordingly to this. much like Belarus
Ah yes. Back before the Ukrainians were being invaded by Russians who have raped and murdered innocents. The new Ukraine is being supplied with so much Western arms that Russia is going to be using thier reserves while Ukraine is using newer better shit.Battle for Donetsk Airport: Haunting Documentary Captures Ukrainian Resilience
A haunting message from a Ukrainian soldier closes "Airport Donetsk," a documentary about the 200-day siege that ended in January 2015."I can't sleep at
Airport Donetsk, a documentary that all the media stations should be showing instead of fanning the flames
But keep talking
@Marduk is polish. His people jave more claims to Ukraine then the Ruskies.
But if you wanna talk about foreign interest taking border territory thay has historical ties? Kalinigrad sure hasn't been Russian for very long. I guess the Germans or even the Polish have full right to invade and take it back.
I guess Japan can invade the Kurill Islands. Taiwan should Imvade China. UK should invade India and Hong Kong. UK should invade Egypt........
The Ukrainains do not see themselves as Russians. They seem themselves as Ukrainains. That is like saying an American should see themselves as English because we were wondering an English colony...
I am not taking issue with the Russians for invading the Ukraine for their self interest, I am taking issue with people pretending that it's what the Ukrainians want as if they want their country be a worn torn shithole or be ruled from Moscow by puppets or decrees as in their best interest.
So basically you acknowledge this war as being initiated by Russia for Russian interest? As in Ukrainian wishes have nothing to do with it?
Ukrainian - no, people of the Kievan Rus - are being killed and displaced because Ukrainian leaders made crooked decisions. nobody should be getting killed and raped, because this war should have been averted. but, the longer it goes on and the more bitterness that comes about on all sides of the conflict, the more savagery there will be
but in any case, the point of that documentary is not to be political, but to show footage and accounts for combatants on both sides of that conflict
any state can invade any other state, and most bodering regions around the world can come up with some claims to legitimacy for doing so. nothing moral about it. the fact of the matter is, Ukraine is in Russia's sphere of influence, and Russia is the more powerful force. Ukraine has immense geo-political importance to Russia, this is fact. Ukraine's leaders should have made the rational, and sane, decision for the well being of the people of Ukraine. but, being western puppets, they did not do this
Ukraine would not be a "word torn shithole" if Ukraine's leaders would have made the rational decision. There would not have been a war.
it is up to the comanders, to make the rational decision for their people, even if said people are making emotional decisions. swearing fealty to the Russian Federation would have prevented this war, and the daily lives of the Ukrainian populace would have stayed much the same, perhaps even improved
And there wouldn't have been a war either had Russia simply chose to let it go and they couldn't just like Ukraine simply isn't going to give in because Russia demands they do so.
the more powerful faction has dominion and control over weaker vassals. that is life, it has always been life, and always will be life. Ukraine's choices were :
1) ally with Russia
2) stay as neutral as possible to appease Russia
3) ally with the west, which would instigate Russia into defending its interests in the region
Ukraine's leaders chose 3