Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

[Zachowon]

You don't need to cook off ammo to cause a ship to sink. All you need is to cause a Bravo or a Delta Fire onboard that they can't contain to do the job.

For those of us that are water challenged.
What do those fires mean?

 

[AnimalNoodles]

Unconfirmed report that Coach Red Pill was killed by SBU.

 

[Bacle]

Unconfirmed report that Coach Red Pill was killed by SBU.

That's a pretty massive claim; where are you seeing anyone say that?

 

[AnimalNoodles]

He hasnt been seen for 48 hours, missed a livestream. He has stated that if he is missing for 48 hours, it because he is dead.

And someone posted on his telegram a report that he was killed by the SBU as a russian spy at 6:30 local time. As i stated..unconfirmed tho.

 

[sillygoose]

But... That's not what happened...

In your mind what happened?

 

[AnimalNoodles]

 

[Sailor.X]

For those of us that are water challenged.
What do those fires mean?

A Bravo Fire is fuel/combustible chemicals. On a ship that would be Fuel, Lube Oil, Paint, Dry Cleaning Solvent etc

A Delta Fire is the stuff of nightmares. It is when metal combusts. It is burning Magnesium, Aluminum or some other metal that cooked off. A Delta fire CAN'T be put out by water it must be jettisoned over the side of the ship. If it occurs in a space where that is not possible then your vessel is fucked 6 ways to Sunday. Because your ship is gonna sink.

 

[sillygoose]

Interesting. Robert Barnes said on his youtube show the Lira was in contact with Galloway and the problem is the war situation knocked out the power, so it was really hard for him to communicate.

 

[AnimalNoodles]

Interesting. Robert Barnes said on his youtube show the Lira was in contact with Galloway and the problem is the war situation knocked out the power, so it was really hard for him to communicate.

hope so

 

[Zachowon]

What exactly has he done that would make him even be considered a Russian Spy?
Sucking off Russian narrative?

 

[planefag]

Also past their prime. Useful against rattletrap 4th world militaries but not a near peer.

Bitch says what?

Also, from my big effortpost on the Moskva:

Then there’s the wider picture – in the entire Russian fleet, only a few of their warships have true long-range anti-air warfare capability. First of course is the three (now two) Slava-class cruisers. Second are the two Kirov-class battlecruisers; of the two active the Admiral Nakhimov has been stuck in refit for many years, leaving only the Pytor Velikiy available in the near future. Both ships have a newer version of the S-300F system; as it can utilize the much newer and more capable 48N6 missile also used by the S-300PMU2 and S-400 systems. Despite being larger ships, they only carry 48 SAMs to the Slava classes 64. Then there’s the Admiral Gorshkov class ships, of which several are building but only three are currently in service, with the latest only commissioned a few months ago. They carry thirty-two 9M96 missiles, a more advanced long-range missile that serves side-by-side with the 48N6 missile in both the S-350 system (basically an upgraded S-300PMU2,) and the most modern S-400 system. In sum this means (before the Moskva’s loss) the Russian Navy had only seven warships with long-range anti-air capability; tentatively eight depending on when Nakhimov emerges from the never-ending refit. Compare this to the Royal Navy, who operate no fewer than six Type 45 AAW destroyers, with their Aster 30 missiles capable of 120km range (comparable to the 9M96 in most respects.) Even the Italian Navy operates four AAW destroyers and ten FREMM frigates, the latter capable of carrying 16 Aster 30s apiece. The loss of the Moskova is not insignificant given Russia’s pretensions to renewed superpower status, no matter how the vatniks may demur.
Also worth mention is the secondary capability of the Slava class: the sixteen massive supersonic anti-ship missiles they carry; originally equipped with the P-500, the latest iteration is the P-1000, reportedly a combination of the P-500’s airframe and the P-700’s advanced avionics and countermeasures.
The P-700’s attack profile was nothing short of remarkable, esp. given it was developed in the late 1980s; the missiles represented an early application of something now again in vogue in the context of small drones, “swarm logic.” The missile salvo would communicate with each other directly, taking turns “popping up” from their sea-skimming flight profile to lock on to the target (presumably a US carrier battlegroup) with their radar and passing the targeting data on to the other missiles before dipping below the radar horizon again. If you consider the titanic size of these weapons compares well to smaller fighter jets, you can start to appreciate these weapons for what they are – more akin to supersonic, autonomous kamikaze drones.
Vatnik chest-beating to the contrary, subsonic vs. supersonic capability isn’t relevant so much from a survivability standpoint (see J.F. McEachron’s 1997 paper in Naval Engineers Journal volume 109 for a full discussion,) but rather from a targeting standpoint – the range anti-ship missiles isn’t determined solely by their flight endurance, but also by how far out they can be targeted against enemy surface fleets that are keeping on the move. If for whatever reason a constant, or at least regularly-updated target track cannot be generated, then supersonic weapons have a significantly longer range than subsonic, as they can arrive at more distant target areas before the target fleet has moved out of the area their built-in target acquisition radar can effectively search. (This is the primary reason the Tomahawk Anti-Ship variant (“TASM”) had a maximum range of only about 160 nautical miles; since the weapon pre-dated Tomahawk datalink technology it couldn’t receive mid-course updates from offboard recon platforms.) In the specific case of the P-700, it was to be cued by the Soviet “Legenda” sea-search radar satellites, who’s infrequent orbital passes meant that no mid-course updates would be available. These targeting considerations are still very relevant to the modern Russian navy – not only due to the difficulty of keeping aerial reconnaissance assets alive in airspace that a United States carrier battlegroup wishes to control, but also due to continued cutting-edge development by the USN aimed at ensuring classic naval deception tactics continue to be as effective against modern foes as they were against the late 1980s Soviet Union. For these reasons, depending on who you ask they would identify the primary capability of the Slava-class as carrying these titanic weapons, not just in the Soviet era but especially now as these weapons have aged far better than the anti-air suite.
Among modern Russian surface combatants, only six surface ships, nominally, carry huge missiles like these – the three Slava class, the two Kirov class, and the single active Kuznetsov-class aircraft carrier. The Kuznetzov is likely never to sail again following the disastrous sinking of a Russian floating drydock while the Kuznetsov was undergoing overhaul within it, The carrier is likely unseaworthy following damage incurred and the floating drydock PD-50 is not only a likely total loss itself, but also the only drydock facility Russia had capable of servicing it. Meanwhile the Admiral Nakhimov’s prolonged refit is intended to remove the huge deck canisters for the P-series missiles in favor of over a hundred VLS cells intended for subsonic missiles, following Western doctrine. This leaves four ships in the entire Russian navy capable of using these potent anti-ship weapons – and one of them was just sunk.
(Note this refit doesn’t imply the Russian Navy no longer has a use for these large anti-ship missiles. The future of Russian Navy power projection was already on the wall even before the Kuznetsov was damaged, given its infamous deployment to Syria a few years ago and the fact it’s MiG-29K’s break something every time they trap, if they don’t just flop into the drink before they even reach the carrier. It’s clearly massed Kalibr cruise missile strikes or nothing if the Russian Navy wants to project significant power against land targets. P-700 missiles are still in service on larger Russian missile submarines, as well.)

For all the copenicks insisting this cruiser wasn't at all relevant "bEcaUsE iTs oLd." Might have something to do with why the ship was refitted to last till 2040 very recently lmao

 

[AnimalNoodles]

Bitch says what?

Also, from my big effortpost on the Moskva:


For all the copenicks insisting this cruiser wasn't at all relevant "bEcaUsE iTs oLd." Might have something to do with why the ship was refitted to last till 2040 very recently lmao

I never said anythign about the cruiser.

 

[Zachowon]

A Bravo Fire is fuel/combustible chemicals. On a ship that would be Fuel, Lube Oil, Paint, Dry Cleaning Solvent etc

A Delta Fire is the stuff of nightmares. It is when metal combusts. It is burning Magnesium, Aluminum or some other metal that cooked off. A Delta fire CAN'T be put out by water it must be jettisoned over the side of the ship. If it occurs in a space where that is not possible then your vessel is fucked 6 ways to Sunday. Because your ship is gonna sink.

What is the worst you had

 

[Vaermina]

In your mind what happened?

The same thing that's been happening since the city was taken.

Quick attacks by Ukraine that take a chunk out of Russia's forces followed by them falling back before Russia can bring it's full force in the area to bear.

Hell... One of those is going on right now...

 

[planefag]

I never said anythign about the cruiser.

I just threw that in because I wanted to post that anyway and didn't want to double-post. However, the analogy of something big and slow and old that is nonetheless a great truck for launching capable long-range munitions does apply to both cruiser and B-52.

 

[Zachowon]

I never said anythign about the cruiser.

The B52 can launch stand off missles is what he was getting at

 

[Zachowon]

Some internet figure of note maybe caught.

Coach red pill.
Look up his kiwifarms page

 

[Scottty]

A Bravo Fire is fuel/combustible chemicals. On a ship that would be Fuel, Lube Oil, Paint, Dry Cleaning Solvent etc

A Delta Fire is the stuff of nightmares. It is when metal combusts. It is burning Magnesium, Aluminum or some other metal that cooked off. A Delta fire CAN'T be put out by water it must be jettisoned over the side of the ship. If it occurs in a space where that is not possible then your vessel is fucked 6 ways to Sunday. Because your ship is gonna sink.

Doesn't such a fire still need Oxygen?

 

[Sailor.X]

What is the worst you had

Thankfully only a class Alpha Fire during a yard period. Which all things considered is the best kind to have because you have the most options to put it out quick.

Class Alpha is wood, paper, food,........... Sometimes people.

 

[Sailor.X]

Doesn't such a fire still need Oxygen?

Both need oxygen. But the Class Delta is were because if water is near it can make it's own oxygen. And also make it's own Hydrogen which leads to a big boom happening if it does. Making the fire and damage 10 times worst.