Our knowledge of Carthage (or Pheonicia) is limited, hence not sexy
Unlike their women lol!
'AHC: Have the US still eventually fight in Korea and/or Vietnam without the 1940 Fall of France and Pearl Harbor'
Our knowledge of Carthage (or Pheonicia) is limited, hence not sexy
Probably ASB, but given both how Rome/Greece are such go-to’s for these sorts of what-ifs and the various “proto-examples” of industrial-age tech they developed IOTL (such as serialized production), I thought it’d be fun to make Carthage the Workshop of the Med this time.
I'd argue that they had a lot of the same problems, but also some different ones.Carthage has exactly the same things going for it - and against it - as Rome or Greece.
Queen Dido: "Now you shall find out just how hot I am!"Unlike their women lol!
Queen Dido: "Now you shall find out just how hot I am!"
*Steps onto funeral pyre*
I'd argue that they had a lot of the same problems, but also some different ones.
Greeks had the best theoretical scientific understanding, but had considerable hang-ups about intellectual pursuits being noble, and down-to-earth practical stuff being for the underclass. So you see Greeks making very fancy demonstration pieces (like Heron's steam engine, which existed only to prove a principle, not to do anything practical) and used intricate tech for suitably "elite" but fairly impractical purposes (like the Antikythera mechanism, which was a convoluted astronomical tool... now thought to be meant for religious purposes, not for something practical like navigation).
Romans were way more practically inclined (see their far more practical engineering works, and the fact that their architectural achievements showed much greater complexity than those of the Greeks). But their theoretical nderstanding was limited. Roman commentaries on Greek texts on mathematics show that the Roman commentators (whom we may assume to be among the most educated Romans) just didn't get the math.
Where does Carthage fall on that? They strike me as more practically-minded, but we don't know enough to be sure about their intellectual attitudes. What we do know is one way in which they differ from both the Greeks and Romans: they were famous for being highly accomplished merchants. Their mentality reflects this. They looked at the bottom line, and they were often demonstrably averse to risky long-term investments with no demonstrable commercial justification. (Hannibal repeatefly asked for more support, but the Carthaginian leadership was too worried about throwing money down the hole, so they refused to give him more backing. He lost, and Carthage was doomed.)
This leads me to suspect that Carthage would have major issues when it comes to investing in uncertain prospects. The merchant mentality is, after all, not the same as that of the venture capitalist. (Nor is it the same as that of the philosopher-aristocrat or the citizen-soldier.)
Queen Dido: "Now you shall find out just how hot I am!"
*Steps onto funeral pyre*
A mentality -- especially a prevailing attitude that is predominant in any populace, and most especially one that is so in the long term -- is not something we can easily just, uh, install in their minds.Hmm...
In that case, I don't suppose we could up the ante on ASB magic to make the Punic approach a bit more venture capitalist-like and more predisposed to long-term investments? I'm already assuming that they "leap-frog" ahead technologically (and far faster than their Greco-Roman rivals, at that!), despite how tall an order that'd be if we made due with non-supernatural means instead. But, given how ASB's already decided on the Industrial Revolution happening a couple millennia ahead of schedule, I think a few "tweaks" to the Punic mindset on the side that leaves their mercantile instincts mostly intact aren't that much to ask for.
(Incidentally, I also had some "Chad Britain Vs. Virgin Carthage" memes in mind when devising this scenario, too, though I'll have to get good at the whole "crudely drawn 4chan art" thing first. Still, considering how the Anglos at their prime conducted trade and commerce on a scale that'd have Hannibal's jaw hit the floor, it stands to reason that Carthaginians watching from the afterlife would greatly envy Britain's empire-building and commercial success.)
I dare say there's going to be a lot less chinese, and a lot more war in the land formely known as China.
Mao is surrounded by monsters, naturally, (as all top communist revolutionaries are), yet not as monstruous as the Cambodian bunch. Whereas Pol Pot was surrounded by like monsters from the beginning. Hence after displaying symptoms of Personality Change and Very Crazy Ideas Mao gets offed.
He managed not to commit suicide by Politbiuro for the Great Leap Forward, but that is 15 years into the future. And the GLP was not that psychopatic.
‘Pol Pot (1998) SI To Mao Zedong (1949)’.
Uh-oh…
I hope Smolniy in Sankt Peterburg and Kremlin in Moscow get nuked.‘1917 US Gets Fat Man And Little Boy’.
They’re also provided the delivery systems and technical paraphernalia needed to maintain and make use of them, just so they’re not sitting around collecting dust or something.
Knowing Wilson he'd have used them in a false flag attack on cities that didn't vote for him to get into the war earlier.I hope Smolniy in Sankt Peterburg and Kremlin in Moscow get nuked.
But on a more serious note - would these be used at all? Would there be a will to use them against civilians? Especially white ones ...
Wilson was Evul! and got his jollies from kicking segregated, black puppies - so he'd nuke Japs or Chinks without a thought.
@Zyobot - I edited my post and it now is three times as long
‘1917 US Gets Fat Man And Little Boy’.
They’re also provided the delivery systems and technical paraphernalia needed to maintain and make use of them, just so they’re not sitting around collecting dust or something.
‘1917 US Gets Fat Man And Little Boy’.
They’re also provided the delivery systems and technical paraphernalia needed to maintain and make use of them, just so they’re not sitting around collecting dust or something.
Militarily not so much to anybody with a brainOne option might be Wilhelmshaven as the base of the High Sea's Fleet, which is a clearly military target, the destruction of which would be a significant blow to the CPs, both militarily and in morale terms.