2nd Civil War Theorycrafting Thread, Peaches Free

[PsihoKekec]

Any independent confirmation not based on Tito's forces claims/documents?

Unfortunately the Wehrmacht request to audit their forces was refused.

It is hardly unprecedented that even internal numbers for insurgents aren't accurate and are inflated to make people look good.

That's why the historians in general consider the numbers they operate with to be within 10% error margin.

Funny how when Axis offensives actually engaged the insurgents in pitched battle they only ended up facing 12,000-20,000 at a time despite the insurgents theoretically having 200,000-300,000 or more people under arms in 1943-44

You do realize that NOVJ, (like all other armies) was not concentrated in on single blob, but was spread across the country? When Germans launched offensive in one region they only faced the partisan troops that were present in that region.

“From the Soviets he notably asked for uniforms for 100,000 men, uniforms for colonels and generals, a marshal’s uniform for himself, and decorations.”

The request was for the partisans of the Central Command (Bosnia and parts of Croatia) that he had hopes of actually supplying with uniforms and weapons.

 

[Whitestrake Pelinal]

@BlackDragon98 question is, what can we do against drone attacks, assuming (worse case scenario) that most of the military remains loyal to the ‘government’?

I wrote a long post on this then decided it sounded too much like ITG BS. So... short version:

• Die a lot.
• Execute collaborators who could identify worth-while targets.
• Sabotage infrastructure that enables drone operation.
• Execute joystick janissaries and those dear to them after killings.
• Make it known that missed strikes will not provoke retaliation.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

.

This wont be like the last civil war. No major first world country has had a civil war while as a Super Power. The world would basically suffer should we have one.

Rome, the UK, The Mongols and France all had multiple Civil wars while the dominant global power.

The Mongols even fractured into five semi autonomous empires.

It happens

 

[AndrewJTalon]

Rome, the UK, The Mongols and France all had multiple Civil wars while the dominant global power.

The Mongols even fractured into five semi autonomous empires.

It happens

Yeah and how terrible was it to live through that? It would suck to go through it nowadays.

Even if we're the side that will most likely have the most guns.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Yeah and how terrible was it to live through that? It would suck to go through it nowadays.
.

Oh I wasn't saying it was a good thing, only that it's incredibly naive to assume the US couldn't go through a second ACW.

America only having one is actually a rarity as far as hyperpowers go. Was more my point. So Zach thinking it ain't happening because the collateral damage would make it unthinkable is perhaps a tad naive?

That was where I was going.

 

[AndrewJTalon]

Oh I wasn't saying it was a good thing, only that it's incredibly naive to assume the US couldn't go through a second ACW.

America only having one is actually a rarity as far as hyperpowers go. Was more my point. So Zach thinking it ain't happening because the collateral damage would make it unthinkable is perhaps a tad naive?

That was where I was going.

I don't think it's impossible. That's the problem. I think it's becoming more likely and the Left is desperate to hold onto power. There are enough crazies in this joke of an administration who would start a civil war if they thought it would let them keep their power. And it would be horrific on both sides.

There's no guarantee it wouldn't end in authoritarian rule on our side. I'm not saying I wouldn't prefer our tyranny to theirs, but I don't want tyranny at all. And a civil war makes a tyrannical rule more likely no matter who wins.

So I prefer we fight and defeat the Left in non-violent ways rather than the civil war. If the war comes, then I hope we win it. I think we would. But the aftermath might be even worse, so it's better to keep armed revolt as the last resort. Period.

 

[History Learner]

Yes you did make the claim. It's right here.

When Doomsought said behind the Iron Curtain and Death Camps... I assumed he was talking about Gulags of the Soviet Union and you replied we did that "to an extent" in Vietnam and Afghanistan.

Then Doomsought accused you of Historical Revisionism and cited by term the Soviet Gulags and Chinese Prisons in Xinjiang imprisoning Uighers.

And you responded: "No, we just did Gitmo, Abu Ghraib (Tbf, Iraq War here but you get the point) and CIA-funded death squads that murdered women and children;"

So yes, you did make those claims. You might not of intended to make that equivocation and to you the difference between a million or thirty million in a Gulag or Relocation Camp to several hundred Detainees held in Gitmo for upwards of twenty years and downplaying that away as "getting into the finer points" but there's no other impression to gain from your post. If there's a failure in relaying your actual claim, that's on you. If you want to shift the goalposts now by stated someone is "getting into the finer points" that's fine, but you still made the equivocation that they were basically equivalent. It's "fine" if you think they're basically the same or that you were just engaging in hyperbole, being dishonest or made a mistake, just don't act like you never made the claim. Your lack of "finer" posting is on you, not me. Sorry.



No this wasn't the point of contention. Doomsought quite clearly clarified he was referencing the Gulags and Uigher population of China as primary examples. You were the one who shifted the goalposts... sorry... "getting into the finer points" of Vietnam and the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan and claiming the former is basically the equivalent of the Soviet Gulag system.

I'm in too many debates at the moment, so for the sake of my own sanity, I'll concede on this.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

I was listening to same story when during Obama years.

Yeah the difference is that now you do a poll on this and on average something like 60% of the respondents are all "Let's goooooooo".

Personally I think they're all fucking idiots. I am not against civil war or insurrection at all, as sometimes it's necessary but do you realize how profoundly you have to shit the bed for that nonsense to become the only way out?

Having grown up in the aftermath of one. It sucks..that being said when you have such a large percentage as per some of the polls I've seen?

 

[Terthna]

I don't think it's impossible. That's the problem. I think it's becoming more likely and the Left is desperate to hold onto power. There are enough crazies in this joke of an administration who would start a civil war if they thought it would let them keep their power. And it would be horrific on both sides.

There's no guarantee it wouldn't end in authoritarian rule on our side. I'm not saying I wouldn't prefer our tyranny to theirs, but I don't want tyranny at all. And a civil war makes a tyrannical rule more likely no matter who wins.

So I prefer we fight and defeat the Left in non-violent ways rather than the civil war. If the war comes, then I hope we win it. I think we would. But the aftermath might be even worse, so it's better to keep armed revolt as the last resort. Period.

It might still be possible; but it's going to rely entirely on whether or not the audits can secure the legitimacy of our electoral process. If we can't trust the vote, I don't see how we can fix this peacefully.

 

[Cherico]

Yeah the difference is that now you do a poll on this and on average something like 60% of the respondents are all "Let's goooooooo".

Personally I think they're all fucking idiots. I am not against civil war or insurrection at all, as sometimes it's necessary but do you realize how profoundly you have to shit the bed for that nonsense to become the only way out?

Having grown up in the aftermath of one. It sucks..that being said when you have such a large percentage as per some of the polls I've seen?

I think we still have a chance of avoiding a civil war/ revolution.

but the window is closing, honestly I don't see the civil war happening until the 2060s people have to exaust any and all peaceful options before their willing to murder their neighbors to end the insanity.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

I think we still have a chance of avoiding a civil war/ revolution.

but the window is closing, honestly I don't see the civil war happening until the 2060s people have to exaust any and all peaceful options before their willing to murder their neighbors to end the insanity.

2040s tbh.

Unless the Federal Government does something profoundly retarded. Plus as you say we still have means of stopping this legally and politically.

 

[stephen the barbarian]

i think that there's a point that is being ignored.

imho, if a 2nd acw starts up the left will splinter into subgroups that will spend more time fighting themselves than anyone else.

 

[Arch Dornan]

i think that there's a point that is being ignored.

imho, if a 2nd acw starts up the left will splinter into subgroups that will spend more time fighting themselves than anyone else.

Just like the Spanish civil war?

 

[History Learner]

2040s tbh.

Unless the Federal Government does something profoundly retarded. Plus as you say we still have means of stopping this legally and politically.

Ya'll are more optimistic than I am, I have felt since last year the parallels with the late stage USSR are uncanny and this with Afghanistan has only further proved it to me. I wouldn't be surprised if we collapse just as quickly as the Soviets did, within the next 2-5 years even. It's worth noting support for secession and the like is just as strong in the United States, according to opinion polling as it was in the USSR in 1991 too....

 

[Arch Dornan]

In the civil war have you factored in Jihadists wanting to take the fight to you?

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

In the civil war have you factored in Jihadists wanting to take the fight to you?

It would always be dozens of factions tearing each other apart like it always is in Latin America.

 

[Arch Dornan]

It would always be dozens of factions tearing each other apart like it always is in Latin America.

The Great Satan is fighting each other and it's a good opportunity to ship in foreign fighters to stake a claim isn't it?

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

The Great Satan is fighting each other and it's a good opportunity to ship in foreign fighters to stake a claim isn't it?

That's what Cuba tried to do in Argentina, but Castro sent Afro Cubans to us thinking even our lefties would just accept it...When it was our lefties who exterminated nearly all the Afro-Argies that weren't deported to Uruguay in the mid 1800's (There were few in general, Argentines bought Slavs and Gypsies and poor Turks from Ottoman slave dealers more than they bought Africans for some reason..Ulster Scots as well. There are a lot of streets in Buenos Aires named after Ulster freedmen), so the ERP and the Montoneros just set them on fire after stealing their gear.

Fucking Pierre Trudeau also sent Canadian leftwing terrorists into Chile pretending to be CBC Journalists...Again Gustavo Leigh had them burned alive.

Yeah I'm not sure why South Americans like incinerating alien agitators so much..but everyone seemed to do it, Brazilians even got in on the fun.

Dominicans did as well if memory serves.

You'd probably see the same right wing Dominicans/Drug dealers who lit up Cicero during the BLM rebellion last year do the same to any outsiders who tried to stir the pot.

You'd also likely see Americans doing it too...Like I said a modern ACW would be an unmitigated clusterfuck of the highest order.

So I prefer we fight and defeat the Left in non-violent ways rather than the civil war. If the war comes, then I hope we win it. I think we would. But the aftermath might be even worse, so it's better to keep armed revolt as the last resort. Period.

You know the part that makes me the most nervous? A bunch of South American countries had civil wars by the dozens..Argentinas was a major world economic power and it underwent no less than four during that time..with the exception of the last one (Imagine if Boogie became supreme military dictator of the US and that was who ran Argentina.) and it actually didn't impact our GDP or ability to feed huge chunks of the world.

Hell during one of them our economy actually grew a percentage point because a bunch of foreigners were given assurances that infrastructure investments post war would come with favored nations clauses, so a bunch of American, British and German companies threw money at Buenos Aires like it was going out of style.

What if the US economy doesn't go tits up and follows the 19th century and early 20th century Latin American models of "and this invites endless speculation of an economic sort."

Where uprisings end up becoming just another fucking American sport? Shit they're already an American passtime?

That would be even worse...honestly.

 

[Arch Dornan]

That's what Cuba tried to do in Argentina, but Castro sent Afro Cubans to us thinking even our lefties would just accept it...When it was our lefties who exterminated nearly all the Afro-Argies that weren't deported to Uruguay in the mid 1800's (There were few in general, Argentines bought Slavs and Gypsies and poor Turks from Ottoman slave dealers more than they bought Africans for some reason..Ulster Scots as well. There are a lot of streets in Buenos Aires named after Ulster freedmen), so the ERP and the Montoneros just set them on fire after stealing their gear.

Fucking Pierre Trudeau also sent Canadian leftwing terrorists into Chile pretending to be CBC Journalists...Again Gustavo Leigh had them burned alive.

Yeah I'm not sure why South Americans like incinerating alien agitators so much..but everyone seemed to do it, Brazilians even got in on the fun.

Dominicans did as well if memory serves.

You'd probably see the same right wing Dominicans/Drug dealers who lit up Cicero during the BLM rebellion last year do the same to any outsiders who tried to stir the pot.

You'd also likely see Americans doing it too...Like I said a modern ACW would be an unmitigated clusterfuck of the highest order.

A war that even local criminals would be involved in. Fuck it make GTA Civil War the game.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

A war that even local criminals would be involved in. Fuck it make GTA Civil War the game.

Local criminals? Not just them man!

You'd have rural and suburban areas where the community leaders and wealthiest small to low large business owners come together, form their own private armies and then go apeshit on big agro..raping, pillaging and looting. Caudillos were a thing for a reason after all.

A favorite pass time of Dominicans during their domestic shitstorms was blowing up the corporate HQ's of big banks..Why? Because it was fun watching the Stock market panic with no one really knowing why because wanton destruction for the lulz is an important way to blow off stress during civil strife