I mean to be fair even if a group is not my own I can still say that them being hurt is a "bad thing" I'm not a jew I can still say the holocaust was bad. As for your complaint about Muslim Arabs the same appliest o Jews they don't care about the political rights well being. Very few Jews in the west vote for conservative parties.
True, and that's because, for obvious reasons, more conservative Jews were more likely to go to Israel, while leftist Jews, well, why would they give a damn about being in one country or another, PROGRESS! has to happen everywhere anyway, but let's not project the fault of those on the Israeli Jews.
If you don't give a fuck about the Jewish state that is great you should not have to care about it. I am not arguing against you I am arguing against evangelicals and cucks like Dan Crenshaw who want to betray the U.S. Like people complain about Biden or the Democrats being China puppets and some of that is fair. But show me one example of them wanting to pass laws banning criticising Israel, or requiring companies to sign a pledge that they support Israel. Like imagine if the democrats passed a law that made talking shit about the CCP illegal. Yeah pieces of shit like Crenshaw and the Neocons should be kicked out of power and the right should make their faction weaker.
Do they? A lot of that is very nasty slapfights where some neocon wants to slap down leftist/islamic BDS movement (that's what the pledge is about, it's a movement of hardcore leftists with ME migrant support, so like Israel or not, it's a right wing politicians job to shit on them all day) and someone makes it a soundbite about being a traitor or caring about Israel too much.
CCP is obviously a different situation because it's almost universally agreed that it's a rival power. Israel is in far more controversial territory leaning towards ally, closer to Turkey, Pakistan or France. Should we except the left's effort in attacking such even if... provisional and controversial allies from our right wing political opposition? I would say obviously not.
Why should i defend
far left activism if it wants to infiltrate foreign policy? Screw the reds, i say. Is there some massive right wing or libertarian movement to boycott Israel over matters of US national interest that i'm not aware of?
I'm sorry it took so long for me to respond so I lost my groove but I gave three examples so it's not actually a binary. A binary is two choices.
You in quote:
"There are two possible options."
Do you have to play these word games?
Many of the people who whined about apartheid also 100 percent support Israel.
And that's why they made mistake regarding SA. If they got wiser with that mistake, great, we shouldn't complain about people getting wiser.
It was not a fringe strawman, people hate those they are at war with. They say things, you don't like some of the groups we are talking about hell I don't like Muslims. I've in the past talked about carpet nuking the middle east, and I did not mean it. Yet imagine how much more often that would happen if it was a real war instead of police actions, and colonial skirmashes.
People take hate to different forms and levels, news and eleven.
We were talking about the generic conception of rights in America. You and me think of rights differently than the normal way and see them as privileges. I don't know why you are hung up on this, defending a conception you don't believe in.
Because there isn't even a single specific conception, there are many, pushed by various political factions.
I should have stuck with just HK, to not draw in more stuff. But you realize the only reason the UK gave it back was because the Chinese were very likely to attack to get it back anyway right? If China was weak or forced by a previous treaty with the US to have no army I don't think the British would have chosen to give it back.
Do you realize that the truly "laws above might" solution would be for UK to give it back, and then, upon China violating its obligations of respecting HK self-governance and such for agreed upon time, invade, take it back, and add additional punitive measures against China?
But it's not a place for multi level what-ifs.
Ok? I can find shit in Jewish texts that talk about treating Goyim badly, or genocide or shit. I can find stuff in the Christian text. I know the passage you are reffering about it deals with an apocalyptic war what is your point. Muslims could have exterminated the Jews in 1000 AD yet they just treated them as second class citizens.(And Christians as third)
Great, so, why are people insisting on criticizing Israel for wanting to treat Muslims as second class citizens (and not just on account of ancient texts, but after they have put a lot of effort into earning that over recent decades), aka apartheid state?
Again Muslims have existed for 1400 years they have held lands with Jews in them for over a millenia. They could have done the Nazi thing and exterminated them. They did not. Nazism main tennant is to kill the Jews and is based on biological race war, Islam's tennant is not that.
Where are you going with this "they could have killed them, but they kept them around and just treated them like crap because they were useful" argument?
Again you can't prove what you are setting out to do Islam has not genocided the Jews when they had the upper hand. That fact disproves your point.
Not genocided technically (killed a lot of them, just not all), just culled and treated as a servants. What's your point in that?
That's the same grade of argument as Turks saying Armenian genocide wasn't a genocide because obviously there were Armenians left.
Yes.
Yes.
As a westerner why would you give a damn what territory Jews think is theirs? Again ATP's way of thinking on this is better. Fuck both of them, ally with one when it's favorable, oppose one when it's favorable.
As a westerner why would i give a damn about what territory Arabs think is theirs?
In the grand scheme of things, it's not an equal opportunistic comparison. Zionist Jews want just a state in ME, the argument being about whether its borders should go tens of kilometers this or that way. Not much room for conflict with westernerers there.
The Arab world meanwhile, can get quite... creative and ambitions in its demands on the West, and did many times in the past.
Nothing wrong with religious nepotism you should be friendly to people who share your morals.
Yup. And i brought up that most people don't share yours. This shit is why since the industrial age and later fall of significance of religion in western countries, nationalism and national culture is what unites states, not religions, about which people are more expected to "agree to disagree".
It's not my personal exotic standard, you haven't told what yours is. Modern western order is built on status quo that is why the west would not tolerate Germany trying to get it's eastern territory that was "theirs" from Poland. Again Hong Kong example if China in the 90's invaded Honk Kong do you think the west would support the UK or China?
My standard is that i support partially westernized nationalists against islamists, simple as that.
And there is an important comparison here to notice, in many of such cases "you lost the war, suck it up" is expected to be the ultimate argument. Germans accepted it. UK would also accept it if it had to. The whole reason why the Palestinian conflict persists rather than disappearing in the 50's, 60's or 70's is that they have lost a few wars and yet still insist on not making concessions.
Umm there are nations that were forcibly kept seperate to prevent them from uniting and becoming stronger. Germany is an example, also in the medieval period the Italian city states. I mean think about it if it was possible for you to send spies or assassins to cause Russia to break up into multiple smaller states like Muscovy, Saint Petersburg, Novgorod, etc. would that not make the rest of eastern europe safer as they could not be invaded? Wouldn't you like that?
Germany is a very good example, and also an excellent demonstration of what it takes to keep nations forcibly separate (or united for that matter) even if they truly want the opposite. Divisions of superpower's troops and legions of agents (Putin himself in his early career was one of those), standing there, glaring menacingly at anyone who gets the wrong ideas, whispering stories of gulags and bullets to the back of the head. None of this nebulous conspiracy shit, that's just a coping mechanism for Arabs who don't want to admit that their political culture is utter shite.
And of course the west would not encourage or prevent the Arabs to unite, after all we are dumb enough to let a large empire like Russia to rise up in a place where they would have control over oil and trade zones.
Arabs being Arabs i think is a much better explanation. As for Russia, the irony is that the current problems in no way would be fixed by fragmenting the western part of Russia. The real problem is the resource rich part behind Ural, tempting the government of whoever controls it to go full hog ME style dictatorship, because why not, it's not like they need a real economy to pay for the army, bureaucracy and important people, and running a real economy is hard.
Yes there are groups out there that simp for Israel to a disgusting degree, and even take trips to Israel and help out for free. So no this isn't some we both benefit situation. This is a group of natural slaves who sadly have political power, the evangelicals and neocucks do not deserve rights because they are natural slaves sadly they are a chunk of the population and are able to loudly cry for their desires for cuckoldry, such a group makes me want to have them lose and hope their sons and daughters end up becoming trannies.
Yup, that faction is kinda disgusting, not unlike certain leftists, ironically also including the people who whine about muh apartheid in Israel.
Umm many arab states with dictators were stable and were not leaking refugees. Tell me when do you think the refugee crisis started?
>stable
Syria...
Libya...
Egypt...
Refugee crisis started truly when Merkel went full retard and started advertising the asylum exploit in western legal systems, and leftists helped.
I know you want to put the blame on "western meddling", but a look at the major sources of them demonstrates how irrelevant that is.
Height of migrant crisis:
When did anyone "regime change" Eritrea or Iran?
Most Jews(except hardcore communists ironically) like and support Israel yes even international liberal Jews like Israel and support it, they may not support Netanyahu but that does not matter Benjamin is not king he is just Prime Minister.
Pew even has nice polls about that specifically.
Eight-in-ten U.S. Jews say caring about Israel is an essential or important part of what being Jewish means to them. Nearly six-in-ten say they personally
www.pewresearch.org
Yes, most of them more or less support Israel, though a whole lot of the non-orthodox ones hold the views of naive liberals regarding the situation.
There is even one poll that goes a long way towards explaining the Israel-Evangelical alliance:
Who knew, orthodox Jews, the most pro-Israeli kind of Jews, votes for US right at the same rate as white evangelicals, which is also highest from among all US population groups, so its not nearly as cucked as it seems, looks more like an alliance.
I mean they are but are you saying for all of history they were corrupt shitholes worse than anywhere else and everyone was leaving them to go to Europe as a refugee?
No, they stayed in place and tried to fix up said place, even if chances were slim and short, uncomfortable life awaited them, because Europe either was also shitty, and once it stopped being shitty, it wasn't retarded enough to allow such a thing - that's an innovation of Cold War era human rights expansion, even in paper, and in practice viable only after Cold War.
You think that if in 1900 all the poor people in Africa could hop on a ship to London or Calais and get free welfare and housing there, there wouldn't be a refugee crisis?
Of course not, there were laws against that.
Well, now they can, and there is a refugee crisis. Coincidence? I think not.
I mean why shouldn't we obsess about it? It's in our interests to do so. We want people who we have kinship with to be treated good, also many Polish people are Catholic they will go on pilgrimage to the Holy Land they do not want to be spit on or harassed. Why are you cucking for American evangelicals. Honestly they are a group who both foreigners and everyone else on the right would be better off if they were reduced.
So you want to reduce the most right wing voting subsection of US Christians... And you think they are the cucks... because they agree with orthodox Jews on the matter of Israel... who are voting as right wing as the evangelicals?
What would be our interest? Instead of shilling for the Arabs of Palestine with their islamic bent (they aren't nice to Christians either,
if you think spit and rocks are that bad, how about molotovs and ak's), you could be proposing some more cheeky ideas... Like pressuring Israel to let some Western government provide the security for Christian pilgrims. But we all know that no sane government would want to stick their dick into a meatgrinder like this as security in that region is not a simple or easy thing.
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/QB6WUX3WDNMZXGP22AVZPZLANI.jpg)
