TyrantTriumphant
Well-known member
That's pretty much my point. The Enclave is a powerful nation. With all the benefits and flaws that come with that.
Fallout The Eagle And The Bear [Fallout AU]
- Thread starter Navarro
- Start date
Crow gotta eat
That peckish, patriotic, Protestant passerine.
There we go, we needed to hear about those more. Mostly because we were familiar with the crap the NCR pulled in the past fics, like what they did in New Orleans, so all just the little things that were implied by expansion felt very pale in comparison to NCR after that (not counting the original genocidal Enclave's actions and attempted actions under Eden and Richardson).
Even giving the Legion weapons because everyone knew that they would be defeated eventually, but the goal of simply just trying to give the Legion weapons, not to destroy the NCR, but to cause more casualties in battle before the Legion were inevitably defeated, felt much less morally dubious, compared to causing a city to badly flood and cause many civilian casualties.
Of course kicking the crap out of Gran Colombia, taking the only couple of islands they had, and then forcing them to a large amount of war reparations despite the war being more of a joke to E-USA, was also a jerk move, but was more of a side note in the story at the time and it was from the perspective from a E-USA militarily employed person who supported the action. It is usually good to at least get a perspective from the those on the "oppressed" end, to better show what they might look like. Which this chapter achieved, maybe in the form of a sledgehammer in the face kind of way, but we still kinda need to hear from the perspective from the other end.
Until now, now we got the "So, either be subsumed or we won't help you.", "We're going to intentionally create communists to crush later to justify our expansion.", "If you don't want to rejoin the Union we're just going to militarlity occupy you and shoot anyone who violently resists" and "Yeah we're going to break down all tribal peoples down, mostly wipe away their traditions, and use disproportionate retaliation against any acts of raiding, despite maybe them only committing minor raiding akin to skirmishing rather burning down entire settlements."
TLDR; essentially we already had the NCR's morally gray realpolitik actions shoved in our face both in this fic and the last ones, so the implied E-USA's dubious realpolitik actions kinda felt pale in comparison until we actually got more details about them rather than just implications, when we already got the NCR's actions out in the open in the past.
Even giving the Legion weapons because everyone knew that they would be defeated eventually, but the goal of simply just trying to give the Legion weapons, not to destroy the NCR, but to cause more casualties in battle before the Legion were inevitably defeated, felt much less morally dubious, compared to causing a city to badly flood and cause many civilian casualties.
Of course kicking the crap out of Gran Colombia, taking the only couple of islands they had, and then forcing them to a large amount of war reparations despite the war being more of a joke to E-USA, was also a jerk move, but was more of a side note in the story at the time and it was from the perspective from a E-USA militarily employed person who supported the action. It is usually good to at least get a perspective from the those on the "oppressed" end, to better show what they might look like. Which this chapter achieved, maybe in the form of a sledgehammer in the face kind of way, but we still kinda need to hear from the perspective from the other end.
Until now, now we got the "So, either be subsumed or we won't help you.", "We're going to intentionally create communists to crush later to justify our expansion.", "If you don't want to rejoin the Union we're just going to militarlity occupy you and shoot anyone who violently resists" and "Yeah we're going to break down all tribal peoples down, mostly wipe away their traditions, and use disproportionate retaliation against any acts of raiding, despite maybe them only committing minor raiding akin to skirmishing rather burning down entire settlements."
TLDR; essentially we already had the NCR's morally gray realpolitik actions shoved in our face both in this fic and the last ones, so the implied E-USA's dubious realpolitik actions kinda felt pale in comparison until we actually got more details about them rather than just implications, when we already got the NCR's actions out in the open in the past.
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
I don’t think the whole intentionally creating communists would be a risk they’d take, because simply put they probably have enough historical records to see how hard to remove it even is
Crow gotta eat
That peckish, patriotic, Protestant passerine.
I think it is because they will have such military, population, industrial and technological advantages once they are done reconquering old USA land, plus the Carribean and the eventual states of Rio Grande plus the NCR Mexican states, that they think they can crush a bunch of barely industrialized neo-Bolsheviks who don't have (or barely has any) power armor and energy weapons.
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CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
The problem is more of how ideas are near-unkillable
Unless they realized that they have to as much as possible, keep it away from things like media, entertainment and academia
Navarro
Well-known member
Neo-bolsheviks whose leaders ultimately report to them, as well.
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
I’m guessing that the Enclave doesn’t allow history to be as easily brushed aside and forgotten, even if the Neo-Bolsheviks aren’t on their payroll
Like Commies can go on and on about the evils of Capitalism, but they’ll ignore their own or say theirs wasn’t real Communism
Navarro
Well-known member
I mean, anti-communism is a definitional part of history, civics and economics classes in E-USA. The population is also relatively comfortable and has a decent number of avenues to social mobility, so that weakens the appeal significantly as well.
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
I thought the main appeal would be to the middle to middle upper and upper class full of champagne socialist types who want to sound important and new and such
Crow gotta eat
That peckish, patriotic, Protestant passerine.
Well, it helps that anti-communism is a staple of E-USA education system, both for public education and for college level education, and that practically no communist or socialist literature or propaganda sources exist in North America (especially when all the Chinese Remnant Ghouls that existed in DC were probably killed by either the Lone Wanderer or by Enclave forces and that Chinese Ghoul submariner in the Commonwealth Wasteland also presumably left for China again).
Not to mention after all the atrocities and predicted deaths that the Communist uprising will cause in the Mexican Empire, plus all the resulting deaths, then military occupation, it will be likely to be extremely unpopular. Plus afterwards they can get rid of all the sources of communism in said territory again during the military occupation.
Greater California
TyrantTriumphant
Well-known member
The last chapter mentioned that the NCR was dealing with partisan activity. What's the NCR reaction to that so far?
SuperHeavy
Well-known member
Well yeah, living with a semi-stabilized China while you get your replicators, teleporters, and mass fusion technology into full production would have been the right call. All the US needed was a bit more time before they were in position to rule the world.
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
And hope that China wouldn’t stab them in the back while at it
SuperHeavy
Well-known member
Oh they certainly would try, but lets see them stop an endless robot army and enough missile defense lasers to etch the US flag on the moon.
Floridaman
Well-known member
it Seems they think they are brainwashed, the chapter mentioned that they thought CODE was being used.
CODE
CODE Conditioning Protocol was a pre-War medical procedure developed in the United States, designed for conditioning humans who underwent brain extraction (i.e. the brain) and preparing them for implantation in a Robobrain chassis (whether combat or janitorial). The principal means of achieving...
fallout.gamepedia.com
Navarro
Well-known member
Not only that, the perceived existential threat tends to quell ideas of reform.
==*==
Made minor changes/retcons to the world map outside of the Americas.
Floridaman
Well-known member
I have to ask was britain given anything else, because it looks like they have not gotten much compared to Germany, is the US going to help them get back some of their colonies in Africa, or Asia to help prevent Germany from becoming a threat in Europe?Not only that, the perceived existential threat tends to quell ideas of reform.
==*==
Made minor changes/retcons to the world map outside of the Americas.
Navarro
Well-known member
Part of the Windsor Treaty includes provisos that if any member should betray the alliance, both faithful members would team up against them. The British know that should the Germans attack them, the Germans would be bombed into the stone age ... without E-USA even using nukes. The UK also has a good deal of influence in Aquitaine and Brittany, much as the Germans do in the Kingdom of Burgundy. The rump of France is pretty much a demilitarised buffer state between them.
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Floridaman
Well-known member
I also was including the fact the British are losing some of their most important land, including Gibraltar, I would assume the deal involved the US helping them get Oceania, South Africa, or India. That way the British feel like they didn’t get a bad deal, since Germany got literally all their territorial demands from the First World War and then some.