Russia-Ukraine War Politics Thread Mk. 2

mrttao said:
Which part of it do you claim is false?
So far the best you managed is a semantics argument of "ackshually robber barons were monopolists from 200 years ago"

So far all you had is semantics arguments, and "citation please".
And I have already cited several things which... you just glossed over as "this is bad and it shouldn't be happening".

Here, let me re-cite everything in one convenient post:
point 1
Tax evasion is punished by prison
en.wikipedia.org

Tax evasion in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

1/5th of prisoners are raped in USA

Prison rape in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

point 2
Lockheed martin is constantly given "cost plus" contracts. where tax payer LITERALLY pays for EVERYTHING. The government invents it, LM owns it and sells it.

www.defensedaily.com

Contract Award: Lockheed Martin Corp. Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Co. Fort Worth (Texas, is awarded a cost-plus-incentive-fee) - $1,439,135,764 - Defense Daily

Lockheed Martin Corp., Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Co., Fort Worth, Texas, is awarded a cost-plus-incentive-fee, cost-plus-fixed-fee not-to-exceed $1,439,135,764 undefinitized contract. This contract provides for the continued development of critical F-35 warfighting capabilities, to include...
www.defensedaily.com www.defensedaily.com

seekingalpha.com

Lockheed Martin bags contracts totaling $401M for US Navy and Army (NYSE:LMT)

Lockheed Martin Aeronautics (LMT) is awarded a ~$196.54M cost-plus-incentive-fee, cost reimbursable contract
seekingalpha.com seekingalpha.com

Cost-plus contract - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

point 3
Congressional Research Service

In page 18 it specifies how military aid is entirely spent in usa and economic aid is mostly spent in usa. this is done via a variety of methods. such as USA govt buying stuff on behalf of the recipient then shipping it over, to stipulations in the giving contract on how they must spend it.

So that is 5 different things cited.
not paying tax = prison
prison = rape dungeon
lockheed martin getting cost plus contracts
cost plus contracts explained
usa aid stipulating how the money is spent.

A simple laundering scheme cited from A to Z
Click to expand...
No, this is you not understanding how US government procurement and R&D work.

Cost-plus contracts exist because not every prototype is successful, not every flaw in a project or design is apparent till you already have spent the money to create prototypes, and sometimes the companies hit slack periods where they need to retain talent without an active project to put them on.

It's the same reason US shipbuilders and yards space out construction schedules to ensure their workforce isn't left idle and thus the very valuable shipyard workers, who are cleared to work on US military projects, don't take jobs elsewhere.
 
Bacle said:
No, this is you not understanding how US government procurement and R&D work.

Cost-plus contracts exist because not every prototype is successful, not every flaw in a project or design is apparent till you already have spent the money to create prototypes, and sometimes the companies hit slack periods where they need to retain talent without an active project to put them on.
Click to expand...
By your argument, we shouldn't have cars, cell phones, and computers because "not every R&D bears fruit".

Yea, no shit. This is why investment is not guarenteed wealth. You need to pick a winner and not a loser.

Cost plus exists because oligarchs wanted free shit. The govt makes it at the taxpayer expense and the oligarch own it at the end.

If taxpayer paid 100% of development. then taxpayer should own the finished product. Not some rando oligarch who invested LITEARLLY 0$ into it.

Also, we literally have some private munitions companies that are competing with these oligarch cost plus ones. As well as aeronautics. And eating losses when they arise.
They just struggle to compete with the sheer broken unfairness that is cost plus contracts that the oligarch owned companies are awarded

Or do you deny the existence of spaceX and smith&wessen?
 
The money will end up in the governments pocket through taxes anyway.

Add in the fact that the entire US MIC is based around competition and thriving to deliver the product that the government wants best.
Just ask companies that competed for the new humvee replacement hoe much they spent going against Oshkosh.
 
mrttao said:
By your argument, we shouldn't have cars, cell phones, and computers because "not every R&D bears fruit".

Yea, no shit. This is why investment is not guarenteed wealth. You need to pick a winner and not a loser.

Cost plus exists because oligarchs wanted free shit. The govt makes it at the taxpayer expense and the oligarch own it at the end.

If taxpayer paid 100% of development. then taxpayer should own the finished product. Not some rando oligarch who invested LITEARLLY 0$ into it.
Click to expand...
You seem to forget the money doesn't just go to 'oligarchs'.

It goes to the employees of the companies in question, often directly to the people involved in projects with some of the 'cost-plus' also going to things like basic upkeep of facilities while idle, which allows companies to operate and retain talent even if they don't have a project to work on 24/7/365.

But this isn't about facts, it's about trying to meme against the US/West and against aid to Ukraine using misrepresentations of how US aid money is being used and what cost-plus contracts are really about.
 
Zachowon said:
The money will end up in the governments pocket through taxes anyway.
Click to expand...
The government is not a person, it is a beurocracy.
That beurocracy can be used to funnel the money into actual productive services for the good of all.
Or it can be used to line the pockets of oligarchs.

There is a massive difference between the two
 
Bacle said:
You seem to forget the money doesn't just go to 'oligarchs'.

It goes to the employees of the companies in question
Click to expand...
> They are not stealing 100% of the cash. so it is ok.

I am well aware that some crumbs end up in the end of the commoners who work for them
 
mrttao said:
> They are not stealing 100% of the cash. so it is ok.

I am well aware that some crumbs end up in the end of the commoners who work for them
Click to expand...
Again, not stealing; no matter how much you want to try to meme that Ukraine using the US aid we give them, to buy US made weapons is 'money laundering'.

The fact that people are so fucking dishonest about what Ukraine is doing with US aid, and aid in general, is like they want to make the 'Russian Collusion Hoax' in to a 'Russian Collusion Reality'.
 
mrttao said:
You are the one who was saying earlier how you think the democrats will start nuking red states...

Clearly russia is following your own logic and planning to annex the radioactive parts later on. :p
Click to expand...
Heh, that you think Alaska is a 'red state' is rather funny.

It's at best purple these days, verging on blue. In fact I'd be entirely unsurprised if Alaska ended up going blue over the next few election cycles.

Edit: And the Republicans in Alaska also tend to be never-Trumpers, aside from Palin.

Also, Democrats LIKE Alaska and it's nature/native bits; they would care about things happening to it
 
@mrttao you're getting more and more confusing every day amigo. You keep flipping between Nazi and Soviet communism with a dash of good old White Man's Burden and Isolationism tossed in. WTF!? Are you on the spectrum mijo?
 
TheRejectionist said:
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Yes, US forces will end up fighting Russia if Ukraine is forced to concede land.

Because that will only tell Russia they can pull this sort of shit and get away with it, so they will try for more once they've rebuilt their military, and this time will likely try for the Baltics as well, banking on NATO Art 5 being rendered hollow in the face of selling out Ukraine.
 
TheRejectionist said:
He's not scum or complaining but reporting what Lloyd Austin said as reported by Carlson, who is neither left or center nor scum.
Click to expand...
So retarded isolationists of left and "right" center patting each other's backs, and approving the same word game based soundbite for idiots who are willing to roll with their interpretation of terms for the sake of creating a soundbite for greater idiots to believe because they only read headlines.
And yes, he is scum, because he is a leftist, and progressive one at that.
Just because he often disagrees with other progressive leftists on what is the best way to bring about progressive leftism, for me as a right winger that doesn't make him any less of a political enemy and scum.
redstate.com

Did the Secretary of Defense Threaten to Send Americans to Ukraine if Congress Refuses to Fund the War?

redstate.com redstate.com
Sorry, if you want to play a game of chinese whispers, politics are not the right place, go find some kids or leftists or something to play it with.
 
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