Breaking News Robert F Kennedy Jr. is considering a 2024 POTUS Run To Challenge Biden

Bigking321 said:

I think that might legitimately be the nicest thing I've ever seen you post about anyone that doesn't like getting involved in that war.

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Well I know Darth's not a vatnik, just supermassively jaded about the west, willing to give non-western sources and political more credence than the current domestic stuff, and unwilling to admit when's been duped or proven wrong.

He doesn't want to be informed about things that paint Russia in a bad light, because he's all in on hating Ukraine for crimes done under the last president (Burisma was a Russian company, btw, not Ukrainian) and trying to blow things out of context or proportion in his attempt to drive down support for Ukraine, while taking a lot of Ru sources at face value because 'you cannot trust the MSM', even if reporting about Ukraine in support of it is coming from most levels of society that aren't so cynical or jaded they trust/like Putin/Russia more than Ukraine.

Plus, being Orthodox, he very much dislikes the that people are showing that there are definitely parts of the Orthodox churches which are arms of the Russian intel services, and taking anything going against those intel assets disguised as religious officials in Ukraine or elsewhere as an 'attack/ban on the Orthodox church'.

Kinda similar to RFK Jr. in that regard; I know he doesn't like us sending aid to Ukraine and trying to help them defend themselves, partly out of anger at the corruption of the nation prior to Zelensky getting into office, partly because his family's been through enough shit they may find Putin less of a threat than the elite in DC (and with what happened to his dad and uncle, kinda understable), and partly fear of WW3 kicking off.

RFK Jr is fairly good on domestic issues, but he's got some real international blindspots.

Bacle said:

Well I know Darth's not a vatnik, just supermassively jaded about the west, willing to give non-western sources and political more credence than the current domestic stuff, and unwilling to admit when's been duped or proven wrong.

He doesn't want to be informed about things that paint Russia in a bad light, because he's all in on hating Ukraine for crimes done under the last president (Burisma was a Russian company, btw, not Ukrainian) and trying to blow things out of context or proportion in his attempt to drive down support for Ukraine, while taking a lot of Ru sources at face value because 'you cannot trust the MSM', even if reporting about Ukraine in support of it is coming from most levels of society that aren't so cynical or jaded they trust/like Putin/Russia more than Ukraine.

Plus, being Orthodox, he very much dislikes the that people are showing that there are definitely parts of the Orthodox churches which are arms of the Russian intel services, and taking anything going against those intel assets disguised as religious officials in Ukraine or elsewhere as an 'attack/ban on the Orthodox church'.

Kinda similar to RFK Jr. in that regard; I know he doesn't like us sending aid to Ukraine and trying to help them defend themselves, partly out of anger at the corruption of the nation prior to Zelensky getting into office, partly because his family's been through enough shit they may find Putin less of a threat than the elite in DC (and with what happened to his dad and uncle, kinda understable), and partly fear of WW3 kicking off.

RFK Jr is fairly good on domestic issues, but he's got some real international blindspots.

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I couldn't have put that better myself.

It's an understandable but completely misplaced knee jerk. That and probably (again, understandable after so many foreign misadventures) the Right's isolationist streak is rearing its ugly head.

Lord Sovereign said:

I couldn't have put that better myself.

It's an understandable but completely misplaced knee jerk. That and probably (again, understandable after so many foreign misadventures) the Right's isolationist streak is rearing its ugly head.

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And with RFK Jr., it's also just legit reason to mistrust DC's establishment and expect the worst of them, given his family's history with DC.

Bacle said:

And with RFK Jr., it's also just legit reason to mistrust DC's establishment and expect the worst of them, given his family's history with DC.

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Yet you don't get why 99% of the rest of us who don't want the US involved in yet another foreign war mistrust the DC establishment, and expect the worst of them?

Most of the people who I know that are against the US being involved aren't pro-Russia. They're just anti-US involvement.

We see the DC establishment propping up Ukraine just enough to keep them in the fight because they see a benefit in bleeding Russia. We don't trust anything those corrupt people do.

And we are watching this absolutely ridiculous path of escalation, and are calling it out.

It's been going like this:

"Don't be silly, we are only sending a couple billion. Drop in the bucket...fast forward, we have spent like $130bn, and politicians are saying don't worry, we will keep sending Ukraine whatever they need.

"We're just sending a bunch ofnold equipment that we don't need. We aren't sending in any tanks or planes" fast forward... "okay we're sending in tanks and planes"

"Cluster munitions are a red flag, we won't be sending any of those," fast forward a few months and we're sending cluster bombs.

"No we arent going to send any troops, just money, tanks, planes and cluster bombs" So now they're calling in reserves to go to Europe. "Don't worry, those guys are just for logistical support they aren't going to directly fight" yeah I can follow patterns and predict the next step here.


At this point you people parroting this shit are either knowingly lying or hopelessly naive.

The rest of us are watching this proxy war constantly escalate. All so some rich politicians and cold war hold outs can stick it to fucking Russia.

You know what would happen to America if we stopped sending shit to Ukraine, and Russia and Ukraine negotiate a deal where Russia gets some land? Absolutely nothing.

Yet we are slowly escalating toward all out total war, and the possibility of nukes flying. All for the benefit of war mongers in the government who have a 40 year old bone to pick with Russia and pockets lined by the military industrial complex.

And you'll tell me how Ukraine deserves their freedom and Russia is the bad guy. I don't disagree, but I don't CARE.

I want the US out of this before ww3 kicks off. I want Russia and Ukraine to work out a deal before 100,000 more people die.

But neocons and democrats are all about this shit.

It's ridiculous.

Rocinante said:

Yet you don't get why 99% of the rest of us who don't want the US involved in yet another foreign war mistrust the DC establishment, and expect the worst of them?

Most of the people who I know that are against the US being involved aren't pro-Russia. They're just anti-US involvement.

We see the DC establishment propping up Ukraine just enough to keep them in the fight because they see a benefit in bleeding Russia. We don't trust anything those corrupt people do.

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I don't think this is true, but I do think that slow rolling aid has cost lives that could have been saved.

Rocinante said:

And we are watching this absolutely ridiculous path of escalation, and are calling it out.

It's been going like this:

"Don't be silly, we are only sending a couple billion. Drop in the bucket...fast forward, we have spent like $130bn, and politicians are saying don't worry, we will keep sending Ukraine whatever they need.

"We're just sending a bunch ofnold equipment that we don't need. We aren't sending in any tanks or planes" fast forward... "okay we're sending in tanks and planes"

"Cluster munitions are a red flag, we won't be sending any of those," fast forward a few months and we're sending cluster bombs.

"No we arent going to send any troops, just money, tanks, planes and cluster bombs" So now they're calling in reserves to go to Europe. "Don't worry, those guys are just for logistical support they aren't going to directly fight" yeah I can follow patterns and predict the next step here.

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I don't remember people acting like minimal aid to Ukraine was enough, rather than the idea nebulous 'people' felt that way being used as a strawman to attack aid to Ukraine from early on.

Rocinante said:

At this point you people parroting this shit are either knowingly lying or hopelessly naive.

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No, some of us just are able to put aside most domestic issues and politics for the sake of a righteous cause, and aiding Ukraine is a very righteous cause, even if you do not agree.

Rocinante said:

The rest of us are watching this proxy war constantly escalate. All so some rich politicians and cold war hold outs can stick it to fucking Russia.

You know what would happen to America if we stopped sending shit to Ukraine, and Russia and Ukraine negotiate a deal where Russia gets some land? Absolutely nothing.

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Wrong, wrong, wrong; you forget the UK is aiding Ukraine in ways DC doesn't like, as is a lot of Eastern Europe who remember being under Moscow's rule.

US aid hypothetically being cut just means the Brits, French, Germans, Poles, Baltics, and Romania decide to say 'fuck you DC, we are going to keep Ukraine in this fight'.

I know you don't like wading through the actual megathreads around the invasion of Ukraine, but you come off looking rather ignorant of what is actually going on in regards to Ukraine when you do.

Rocinante said:

Yet we are slowly escalating toward all out total war, and the possibility of nukes flying.

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Not really, because of how the Russian nuclear command chain works; I've explained this too you before.

Rocinante said:

And you'll tell me how Ukraine deserves their freedom and Russia is the bad guy. I don't disagree, but I don't CARE.

I want the US out of this before ww3 kicks off. I want Russia and Ukraine to work out a deal before 100,000 more people die.

But neocons and democrats are all about this shit.

It's ridiculous.

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See, you do care, you show you care about this invasion by Russia by how much you dislike us being involved, and how scared you are of WW3.

You do care, you just don't care for Ukraine's territorial intergirty, or to think about what happens after Russia gets what they want, and try for more. Russia is a nation sized mob, and giving in to the mob only makes them come after you more.

Also, the neocons have been proven right about Russia.

Bacle said:

See, I would buy that, if he wasn't so quick and eager to push for violence against gov agents as the 'go-to' solution, particularly when simply put a lot of the time the violence he wants is purely counter-productive to the ends he seems to desire.

The only reason I kinda doubt he's a full glowie/Fed is because I doubt a Fed would be so quick to disparage any mention of Ukraine these days.

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It's gotten to the point where the rot just needs to be excised like in the "old days", and people who aren't batshit insane Leftists (read: dumb monkey's paws) and the Corrupt themselves are utterly sick of it. Every other route has proven to complete failures because of what they're capable of, right down to the social media level.

The legal system, media, the government, academia, they're all covering and protecting each other and stopping the corruption from being exposed/rooted out. They basically control everything now, and trying to expose them will not and cannot work -- we've seen this in recent decades. Hell, look at Trump's situation now.

Honestly, though? From the late 70's onwards, I think that the rot became terminal for the US. The tumours metastasized everywhere without people noticing, and we're only now just seeing the final result of their warping and killing the victim/host, like sores developing on the skin and pustules erupting and bursting.

Jormungandr said:

It's gotten to the point where the rot just needs to be excised like in the "old days", and people who aren't batshit insane Leftists (read: dumb monkey's paws) and the Corrupt themselves are utterly sick of it. Every other route has proven to complete failures because of what they're capable of, right down to the social media level.

The legal system, media, the government, academia, they're all covering and protecting each other and stopping the corruption from being exposed/rooted out. They basically control everything now, and trying to expose them will not and cannot work -- we've seen this in recent decades. Hell, look at Trump's situation now.

Honestly, though? From the late 70's onwards, I think that the rot became terminal for the US. The tumours metastasized everywhere without people noticing, and we're only now just seeing the final result of their warping and killing the victim/host.

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Maybe, but Jan 6th showed the foolishness of open demonstrations getting hijacked by Fed plants, and things like the Bundy Ranch case show how many 'far-right' groups are seriously infiltrated by CIs, undercovers, and glowies.

Anyone who hasn't learned the lesson of Jan 6th, and keep trying to push for shit that would look worse than that politically, no matter how righteous the anger, is doing the Dems work for them.

The Dems want the GOP base to get violent out of rage at shit like groomers, Biden's crimes, the trans shit, and well...the Dems want the GOP angry and violent and doing shit that can be hijacked like Jan 6th was, to justify more 1984-ish measure/more backdoor stripping of Constitutional Rights.

Bacle said:

Wrong, wrong, wrong; you forget the UK is aiding Ukraine in ways DC doesn't like, as is a lot of Eastern Europe who remember being under Moscow's rule.

US aid hypothetically being cut just means the Brits, French, Germans, Poles, Baltics, and Romania decide to say 'fuck you DC, we are going to keep Ukraine in this fight'.

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You say that like it's a negative thing. If the US backed out and Europe decided to handle its own mess, that's at least a step in the right direction

I know you don't like wading through the actual megathreads around the invasion of Ukraine, but you come off looking rather ignorant of what is actually going on in regards to Ukraine when you do.

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I just don't like hanging out in pro war circle jerk sessions

See, you do care, you show you care about this invasion by Russia by how much you dislike us being involved, and how scared you are of WW3.

You do care, you just don't care for Ukraine's territorial intergirty, or to think about what happens after Russia gets what they want, and try for more. Russia is a nation sized mob, and giving in to the mob only makes them come after you

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I care about the human suffering that will come from a WW3. I don't really care much if Russia takes some strips of land from Ukraine. The flag that flies over some Slavic city is inconsequential to me.

I'm actually even okay with some US involvement. Say Russia and Ukraine had some peace talks. I'd be okay with part of the treaty that comes from that saying the US will help to bolster Ukrainian defenses once the peace deal is signed so that their new borders are extremely secure if Russia tries their shit again. No more supposedly quick 3 day adventures.

And those talks might even fail. But we should have these countries at least TALKING. instead the US seems to be actively preventing that.

Everyone wanted to bleed Russia. They have bled a lot.

They have the resources and the will to keep this meat grinder going for a long time. I don't want to keep contributing to it.

Rocinante said:

You say that like it's a negative thing. If the US backed out and Europe decided to handle its own mess, that's at least a step in the right direction


I just don't like hanging out in pro war circle jerk sessions


I care about the human suffering that will come from a WW3. I don't really care much if Russia takes some strips of land from Ukraine. The flag that flies over some Slavic city is inconsequential to me.

I'm actually even okay with some US involvement. Say Russia and Ukraine had some peace talks. I'd be okay with part of the treaty that comes from that saying the US will help to bolster Ukrainian defenses once the peace deal is signed so that their new borders are extremely secure if Russia tries their shit again. No more supposedly quick 3 day adventures.

Everyone wanted to bleed Russia. They have bled a lot.

They have the resources and the will to keep this meat grinder going for a long time. I don't want to keep contributing to it.

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I notice you skipped the bits where I pointed out why WW3 was unlikely to happen; the Russian's aren't going to use nukes over Ukraine, stop acting like that is a real threat we have to worry about.

Bacle said:

I notice you skipped the bits where I pointed out why WW3 was unlikely to happen; the Russian's aren't going to use nukes over Ukraine, stop acting like that is a real threat we have to worry about.

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I skipped it because I have nothing to say other than that I strongly disagree that the risk of ww3 or nukes is off the table.

Bacle said:

Maybe, but Jan 6th showed the foolishness of open demonstrations getting hijacked by Fed plants, and things like the Bundy Ranch case show how many 'far-right' groups are seriously infiltrated by CIs, undercovers, and glowies.

Anyone who hasn't learned the lesson of Jan 6th, and keep trying to push for shit that would look worse than that politically, no matter how righteous the anger, is doing the Dems work for them.

The Dems want the GOP base to get violent out of rage at shit like groomers, Biden's crimes, the trans shit, and well...the Dems want the GOP angry and violent and doing shit that can be hijacked like Jan 6th was, to justify more 1984-ish measure/more backdoor stripping of Constitutional Rights.

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Which goes directly into the "they all cover for each" point -- going through the System, or even trying to protest against the System, cannot and will not work now as the System itself is against you directly. You'd be playing a rigged game with no hopes of winning and where they hold all the cards.

People know this and are sick of it, and in the "old days" when such things got to such point? They basically hung, stabbed, shot, or strung up those of the System/the Corrupt. Sometimes it worked; often times it didn't and resulted in even worse situations, but the point is that they saw no other way other than trying that.

After all, you can't continue cover for your buddies if you've got a 9mm in the back of your head, basically.

It's getting to the point where this is what people are viewing as the only way to try to fix this mess, as there aren't any other viable ways, and those that think they can use the methods which worked before, such as whistleblowing, voting, protests, et cetera, are still under the assumption that the old paradigm still applies.

That paradigm has been dead for years. They broke it and overturned the table.

Jormungandr said:

Which goes directly into the "they all cover for each" point -- going through the System, or even trying to protest against the System, cannot and will not work now as the System itself is against you directly. You'd be playing a rigged game with no hopes of winning and where they hold all the cards.

People know this and are sick of it, and in the "old days" when such things got to such point? They basically hung, stabbed, shot, or strung up those of the System/the Corrupt. Sometimes it worked; often times it didn't and resulted in even worse situations, but the point is that they saw no other way other than trying that.

After all, you can't continue cover for your buddies if you've got a 9mm in the back of your head, basically.

It's getting to the point where this is what people are viewing as the only way to try to fix this mess, as there aren't any other viable ways, and those that think they can use the methods which worked before, such as whistleblowing, voting, protests, et cetera, are still under the assumption that the old paradigm still applies.

That paradigm has been dead for years. They broke it and overturned the table.

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The old paradigm is dead, but the totalitarian surveillance state left in it's place is not.

The previous attempts at overturning a corrupt system by force were in pre-nuke times, pre-orbital recon times, and before every micorphone and camera connected to the net could be used as an evidence collection device remotely.

No serious, meaningful attempt to use violence to 'fix' the system is going to work, that's bloody obvious now.

The name of the game is survival and adaption to a hostile paradigm now, not attempting to reverse the tide via violence. Short of a Carrington event effectively zapping the world/US powergrid back to the 1800s, the tech that enables the new totalitarian state and it's enforcers is only going to get better and cheaper for those in power.

Cherico said:

My money is that he's just done with the nonsense.

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This.

That and I need to find better ways to vent my frustration then posting stuff online. Though I also wouldn’t mind seeing the bastards responsible swing for it.

Mostly because, as others have pointed out, the system is so broken that’s it’s just about the only way they’ll get their just punishment.

Bacle said:

The old paradigm is dead, but the totalitarian surveillance state left in it's place is not.

The previous attempts at overturning a corrupt system by force were in pre-nuke times, pre-orbital recon times, and before every micorphone and camera connected to the net could be used as an evidence collection device remotely.

No serious, meaningful attempt to use violence to 'fix' the system is going to work, that's bloody obvious now.

The name of the game is survival and adaption to a hostile paradigm now, not attempting to reverse the tide via violence. Short of a Carrington event effectively zapping the world/US powergrid back to the 1800s, the tech that enables the new totalitarian state and it's enforcers is only going to get better and cheaper for those in power.

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And yet people will either resort to it because they don't see any other way or still try to play by the old paradigm's rules (which is doomed for failure).

It's not about the choice but the lack of choice.

If the only choices are "bow down and lick their boots as the System becomes more absolute and corrupt, and as the country twists into a caricature of what it once was" or "hang the fuckers by a lamp post and watch as the glowies and Democrats do the Hampton Jig as they shit their pants", people will go for the latter, as they've always done in history.

Survival isn't enough because eventually they will come for you (or your children) for one reason or another; it's why being on the defence constantly never works. Times and technology change; that principle never changes.

Give them another option that'll actually work, and people will take it. Trump was supposed to be that option back in '16, and despite being a blowhard he did try, but, well, we know how that turned out.

Jormungandr said:

Give them another option that'll actually work, and people will take it. Trump was supposed to be that option back in '16, and despite being a blowhard he did try, but, well, we know how that turned out.

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There are options, but most of them are some variety of either:

A) Doing another decades long play to get more conservative SCOTUS judges on the bench, while just attempting damage mitigation in the short term.

B) Just doing the social equivalent of 'quiet quitting', and effectively turning the GOP into a giant Amish commune in red bastions, and giving up on most of the blue/purple areas for decades.

C) Adapting to a hostile paradigm and reigning in your goals to what is actually achievable with society as is in the short term, instead of as we may wish it to be decades from now, or how it was decades ago.

D) Making the same mess that was made on Jan 6th again because people are more angry than reasonable, until either the majority of the GOP is in prison or dead, and the Dems get a win by default.

Bacle said:

There are options, but most of them are some variety of either:

A) Doing another decades long play to get more conservative SCOTUS judges on the bench, while just attempting damage mitigation in the short term.

B) Just doing the social equivalent of 'quiet quitting', and effectively turning the GOP into a giant Amish commune in red bastions, and giving up on most of the blue/purple areas for decades.

C) Adapting to a hostile paradigm and reigning in your goals to what is actually achievable with society as is in the short term, instead of as we may wish it to be decades from now, or how it was decades ago.

D) Making the same mess that was made on Jan 6th again because people are more angry than reasonable, until either the majority of the GOP is in prison or dead, and the Dems get a win by default.

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A) Too late and ineffective; by then everything will be even more Uniparty. At this point, they've subverted elections and are doing all they can to cling onto power like any other dictatorship would. I wouldn't be surprised if they openly began killing rivals soon

B) They won't leave you alone. Again, always on the defence equals failure

C) Goals which cannot be achievable given they control everything and anything, and said goals would be pretty much useless in the long run. Their grip tightens by the year -- this is going on worldwide not just in America, mind

D) The Democrats and the RINOs/Uniparty are winning by default anyway -- half of the non-Leftists naively/stupidly believe this is just another political game like in the past, and the other half see what's going on but don't see any other options/paths forwards

Those aren't viable options. Any of them.

Give people a viable, alternative option that'll work; otherwise, regardless of the consequences and even if it plays into Their hands, people will break out the nooses.

Jormungandr said:

A) Too late and ineffective; by then everything will be even more Uniparty. At this point, they've subverted elections and are doing all they can to cling onto power like any other dictatorship would. I wouldn't be surprised if they openly began killing rivals soon

B) They won't leave you alone. Again, always on the defence equals failure

C) Goals which cannot be achievable given they control everything and anything, and said goals would be pretty much useless in the long run. Their grip tightens by the year -- this is going on worldwide not just in America, mind

D) The Democrats and the RINOs/Uniparty are winning by default anyway -- half of the non-Leftists naively/stupidly believe this is just another political game like in the past, and the other half see what's going on but don't see any other options/paths forwards

Those aren't viable options. Any of them.

Give people a viable, alternative option that'll work; otherwise, regardless of the consequences and even if it plays into Their hands, people will break out the nooses.

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See, nooses are part of D, and and the other options are the ones where people try not to create government change via body count.

Any methodology to 'fix' America that needs public lynching of LEOs and intel people to work is doom to fail even worse than the other options.

Violence by the Right is not going to make the Left any less powerful, and in fact is likely to make it far more powerful, far quicker.

RFK Jr., or to a lesser degree Trump, attempting a complete purge of corrupt officials, should either get into office, is about one of the only ways things get 'fixed' in our lifetime, and even then it's a slim margin the powers that be don't off them before they can either get elected, unless they simply 'fortify' every election going forward (and this is a real possibility).

But people on the Right need to understand that they may need to change, or shrink, their definition of political 'victory' to something more achievable than current goals, or accept that the current goals have set themselves in a 'no-win' situation for the likely mid-term, and thus are wasting energy pursuing fruitless, sometime completely moot, goals.

The frank reality is the Right will likely never again have the power the Dems wield regularly and brutally, or the PR to beat the Left's media machine; parity with the Dems/Left is the best the Right can really hope for, not political domination of them.

Bacle said:

Maybe, but Jan 6th showed the foolishness of open demonstrations getting hijacked by Fed plants, and things like the Bundy Ranch case show how many 'far-right' groups are seriously infiltrated by CIs, undercovers, and glowies.

Anyone who hasn't learned the lesson of Jan 6th, and keep trying to push for shit that would look worse than that politically, no matter how righteous the anger, is doing the Dems work for them.

The Dems want the GOP base to get violent out of rage at shit like groomers, Biden's crimes, the trans shit, and well...the Dems want the GOP angry and violent and doing shit that can be hijacked like Jan 6th was, to justify more 1984-ish measure/more backdoor stripping of Constitutional Rights.

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I think that Mr. Miyagi sums up my thoughts on activism like the January 6th protests.

It is kinda annoying.

The left protests and actually riots. Stunning and brave! Don't you dare touch those freedom fighters!

The right protests and the Fed plants fake a riot. Insurrection! Traitors! Get them all! Prison for over two years with no charges and the government hiding evidence!

Seems... unfair.

A completely unfettered left with cover vs a utterly handicapped right getting framed.

What are people on the right supposed to do? Die or go to prison?

Not a fun game we're playing here. Why wouldn't the table eventually get flipped?

Bigking321 said:

It is kinda annoying.

The left protests and actually riots. Stunning and brave! Don't you dare touch those freedom fighters!

The right protests and the Fed plants fake a riot. Insurrection! Traitors! Get them all! Prison for over two years with no charges and the government hiding evidence!

Seems... unfair.

A completely unfettered left with cover vs a utterly handicapped right getting framed.

What are people on the right supposed to do? Die or go to prison?

Not a fun game we're playing here. Why wouldn't the table eventually get flipped?

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It's not fair, but politics has never been fair or just, never merit based or free of corruption.

It's just that the GOP would never admit that to their base, because most of their base operate on the 'just world' fallacy, and telling them the playing field has never been level in the history of our nation, or humanity as a whole, would cost them too many donors who want to keep living in the delusion the world has to be, or ever has been, fair or just.