Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
Oh, certainly. But the point that part of the article is making is that the equipment is shaped by doctrine, or rather the way military is supposed to fight. So the question is whether NATO will have the proper equipment in quantities Ukraine needs. The war in Ukraine has seen air force much less relevant than NATO assumes (though certainly not neutered the way uncritical view may imply), and far more focus on artillery. So the issue is basically what you said in the bolded part... Can NATO supply Ukraine with sufficient artillery? Can NATO supply Ukraine with sufficient amount of munitions for the artillery?
The answer is yes, technically it can if sufficient motivation is there. The real question is *will it*?
Also there isn't some special doctrine and special equipment here. Mechanized warfare in this form has not changed much from the late cold war on either side, and most of the equipment involved is just various modifications and improvements of gear that was designed (if not built) back then. Don't forget that available equipment also shapes the doctrine. The war is in a stalemate because neither side can do the massive maneuver warfare moves cold war doctrines would call for due to various shortcomings preventing their success (occasionally it did happen in this war, sometimes successfully, sometimes not), but if one side manages to amass the right resources to overcome those, it would not surprise me if Ukraine repeats Kharkiv counteroffensive somewhere else.

Of course a second rate ex-USSR airforce cannot make itself as relevant as expected of NATO forces, that much is not a surprise. If Ukraine had something like 200-300 western tactical jets, including EW/wild weasel ones, naturally their air force would be more relevant.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Normal police yes, but special police units such as anti-terrorist units are another story. These even get used in actual combat operations alongside regular army units.
Not in the US fir instance.
But we are far larger then 90percebt of the country
 

Aldarion

Neoreactionary Monarchist
Not in the US fir instance.
But we are far larger then 90percebt of the country
During the Croatian Homeland war, Special Tasks Police units (including the antiterrist units) fought alongside the regular Army (National Guard) and territorial defense (Home Guard) units. They generally undertook combat tasks that required specialized skills that regular units did not necessarily possess, but not the heavy firepower they did possess. For example, during the Operation Flash, Special Tasks Police units were inserted behind the Serb lines with the aim of controlling key movement points and cutting off various sectors from each other. They performed similar tasks during the Operation Storm:

They did often require artillery support provided by the regular army forces, but generally speaking, commandos do not have artillery support either.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
During the Croatian Homeland war, Special Tasks Police units (including the antiterrist units) fought alongside the regular Army (National Guard) and territorial defense (Home Guard) units. They generally undertook combat tasks that required specialized skills that regular units did not necessarily possess, but not the heavy firepower they did possess. For example, during the Operation Flash, Special Tasks Police units were inserted behind the Serb lines with the aim of controlling key movement points and cutting off various sectors from each other. They performed similar tasks during the Operation Storm:

They did often require artillery support provided by the regular army forces, but generally speaking, commandos do not have artillery support either.
Yeah, that would be our HRT, and the like of our federal agencies, and even then, commando groups are often trained to not be in the situation where they can have such teams sent on them
 

Lord Sovereign

The resident Britbong

Terthna

Professional Lurker
Meh, not sorry to see him go after how many times he uncritically regurgitated Russian propaganda about Ukraine, or after how many times he's acted as ridiculous 'controlled opposition' to make the Right look even more farcical.

Tucker only cares about his own ratings and PR; any help to others is a secondary effect of his own desire to soothe/push his ego.
We get it; everyone who criticized the official narrative regarding anything related to the Ukraine invasion is a Russian shill. Tucker is a shill, I'm a shill; everyone who disagrees with you is a shill, and a bad person to boot.
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
The obsession with owning a dying nation of barbarians wherein half the population has designated shitting igloos instead of indoor plumbing, by propping up an even more barbaric and primitive country at the expense of Americans is astounding.

There's no difference between Eastern Europeans the Hutus and Tutsis. There is no difference between Congolese ethnic bitchits and the ethnic bitch fit between these two pathetically corrupt and damned nations whose people have been killing each other for centuries.

Tldr: the based Cubans in Miami are right Slavic problems are Slavic problems and it's morally treasonous to place them above us. And it's detrimental to American affairs to care about them at all.

I'll just repeat that- if you support either Zelensky or Putin, you are undermining the United States, denigrating your duties as a citizen and choosing to be an ally of Globohomo.

You are actively aiding and abetting Satanic evil.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
The obsession with owning a dying nation of barbarians wherein half the population has designated shitting igloos instead of indoor plumbing, by propping up an even more barbaric and primitive country at the expense of Americans is astounding.

There's no difference between Eastern Europeans the Hutus and Tutsis. There is no difference between Congolese ethnic bitchits and the ethnic bitch fit between these two pathetically corrupt and damned nations whose people have been killing each other for centuries.

Tldr: the based Cubans in Miami are right Slavic problems are Slavic problems and it's morally treasonous to place them above us. And it's detrimental to American affairs to care about them at all.

I'll just repeat that- if you support either Zelensky or Putin, you are undermining the United States, denigrating your duties as a citizen and choosing to be an ally of Globohomo.

You are actively aiding and abetting Satanic evil.


Look there is very much a differece between congolese bitch fights and whats happening in europe.

This is what Congolese food looks like

24b3abde3ee1aea260267b518a5e429e.jpg


This is what Russian food looks like

R.0a2b2a535db9e77e4f9403a59926e0aa


Say what you will about the congo the people there know how to use a kitchen.
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
Look there is very much a differece between congolese bitch fights and whats happening in europe.

This is what Congolese food looks like

24b3abde3ee1aea260267b518a5e429e.jpg


This is what Russian food looks like

R.0a2b2a535db9e77e4f9403a59926e0aa


Say what you will about the congo the people there know how to use a kitchen.

You're right the Congolese have superior culinary skills than Eastern Europeans.

They still hunt each other for sport, kill each other for the lulz and ethnically cleanse each other while laundering money for international Pedos just as much as Congolese do! 🤣

We should write the entire region off, it's been peopled by bloodthirsty warlords and locked in an endless bid to exterminate itself since the bronze age. No one is going to correct them and trying to save them just harms us.

Containment is the only sane policy.
 

Rocinante

Russian Bot
Founder
Meh, not sorry to see him go after how many times he uncritically regurgitated Russian propaganda about Ukraine, or after how many times he's acted as ridiculous 'controlled opposition' to make the Right look even more farcical.

Tucker only cares about his own ratings and PR; any help to others is a secondary effect of his own desire to soothe/push his ego.
Bacle, I respect you and your willingness to stand up for your opinions, but your revulsion to anything that criticizes the war in Ukraine is blinding you.

I think you're just watching one side of the propaganda, and you've got to realize 99% of the news about this conflict on either side is all propaganda. Those recent leaks exposed that we've been lied to all along.

Tucker was just willing to share stories that went against the pro-war propaganda. He should be respected for that. For being a voice against the status quo. It's the same reason I respect Krystal and Saagar over on breaking points for speaking up against pro war propaganda.

You call people who are against the war Russian shills. I think, like anything, we should be skeptical of every little thing, and every dollar spent. Why should we support Biden's proxy war on face value?

It's possible to think that Russia was in the wrong, and that Putin is an evil dictator who deserves to lose, while also being against the US draining our resources to fight a proxy war.

The line about how this is just a cheap drop in the bucket and that it's draining Russia has been exposed. We are sending more and more money and weapons, Ukraine is being bled dry, and the US is reporting that our military is critically low on resources right now, and we are just sending more to Ukraine.

And meanwhile the conflict rages on. Russia has got its shit together and is not going to be giving up any time soon. This is just going to cost more lives and more money.
 
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Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
We get it; everyone who criticized the official narrative regarding anything related to the Ukraine invasion is a Russian shill. Tucker is a shill, I'm a shill; everyone who disagrees with you is a shill, and a bad person to boot.
Tucker literally used Kremlin talking points, and repeated lies about the situation in Ukraine on numerous occasions, including the farcical kill ratio from the modified images in the leaks.

Tucker never wants to put the same brain power he used for Jan 6th defense into examining the situation in Ukraine, because then it would mean he'd have to admit he bought a bunch of Kremlin lies about the situation.

You were just willingly uninformed for a long time, and still seem rather stubborn about admitting you were wrong about things in said willing ignorance.
Bacle, I respect you and your willingness to stand up for your opinions, but your revulsion to anything that criticizes the war in Ukraine is blinding you.

I think you're just watching one side of the propaganda, and you've got to realize 99% of the news about this conflict on either side is all propaganda. Those recent leaks exposed that we've been lied to all along.
Many of the images in the leaks, particularly with regards to the K;D ratios, were modified before the leak to make things look worse for Ukraine; the doctored images stood out and were debunked, yet Tucker took the doctored images numbers at face value.

So I disagree with the supposition that we have been lied to at large about the situation in Ukraine.
Tucker was just willing to share stories that went against the pro-war propaganda. He should be respected for that. For being a voice against the status quo. It's the same reason I respect Krystal and Saagar over on breaking points for speaking up against pro war propaganda.
"Pro war propaganda'", oh you mean not trying to sell Ukraine down the river Chamberlain-style?

Putin/Russia chose to engage in the invasion, it was not the doing of the West, and helping Ukraine defend itself and retake it's land is a very worthy cause.
You call people who are against the war Russian shills. I think, like anything, we should be skeptical of every little thing, and every dollar spent. Why should we support Biden's proxy war on face value?
Because it is an invasion Putin chose to carry out, this is not something we can blame on Biden.

We can blame Biden for many things, but he is not the one who ordered tanks to roll through Chernobyl.
It's possible to think that Russia was in the wrong, and that Putin is an evil dictator who deserves to lose, while also being against the US draining our resources to fight a proxy war.

The line about how this is just a cheap drop in the bucket and that it's draining Russia has been exposed. We are sending more and more money and weapons, Ukraine is being bled dry, and the US is reporting that our military is critically low on resources right now, and we are just sending more to Ukraine.
Look, this is a huge exaggeration of things, and frankly, what we are spending on Ukraine is a tiny fraction of the US budget overall, and well...we're a fiat currency, the US has effectively infinite money and the only thing that matters is what the Fed is doing with interest rates.

The idea that spending to support Ukraine (and they haven't been bled dry, that's another inaccurate exaggeration of the leaks) is hurting the US economy domestically is a complete misnomer and falling for old 'fiscal conservatism' illusions about how the US money supply works.
And meanwhile the conflict rages on. Russia has got its shit together and is not going to be giving up any time soon. This is just going to cost more lives and more money.
You obviously aren't actually paying close attention to what is happening on the ground if you think Russia has it's shit together.

@planefag You are better at this than me, can you please help explain how inaccurate this idea about Ukraine's situation and how Tucker regurgitated Russian bullshit on the regular.
 

Rocinante

Russian Bot
Founder
Tucker literally used Kremlin talking points, and repeated lies about the situation in Ukraine on numerous occasions, including the farcical kill ratio from the modified images in the leaks.

Tucker never wants to put the same brain power he used for Jan 6th defense into examining the situation in Ukraine, because then it would mean he'd have to admit he bought a bunch of Kremlin lies about the situation.

You were just willingly uninformed for a long time, and still seem rather stubborn about admitting you were wrong about things in said willing ignorance.

Many of the images in the leaks, particularly with regards to the K;D ratios, were modified before the leak to make things look worse for Ukraine; the doctored images stood out and were debunked, yet Tucker took the doctored images numbers at face value.

So I disagree with the supposition that we have been lied to at large about the situation in Ukraine.

"Pro war propaganda'", oh you mean not trying to sell Ukraine down the river Chamberlain-style?

Putin/Russia chose to engage in the invasion, it was not the doing of the West, and helping Ukraine defend itself and retake it's land is a very worthy cause.

Because it is an invasion Putin chose to carry out, this is not something we can blame on Biden.

We can blame Biden for many things, but he is not the one who ordered tanks to roll through Chernobyl.

Look, this is a huge exaggeration of things, and frankly, what we are spending on Ukraine is a tiny fraction of the US budget overall, and well...we're a fiat currency, the US has effectively infinite money and the only thing that matters is what the Fed is doing with interest rates.

The idea that spending to support Ukraine (and they haven't been bled dry, that's another inaccurate exaggeration of the leaks) is hurting the US economy domestically is a complete misnomer and falling for old 'fiscal conservatism' illusions about how the US money supply works.

You obviously aren't actually paying close attention to what is happening on the ground if you think Russia has it's shit together.

@planefag You are better at this than me, can you please help explain how inaccurate this idea about Ukraine's situation and how Tucker regurgitated Russian bullshit on the regular.
I've been hearing nothing but propaganda a out how bad Russia is losing for over a year now. Yet the war wages on. If they were losing anywhere CLOSE to as bad as all that propaganda said, they'd be utterly fucked at this point.

Consider for a second that both sides are lying to you.

We don't really know how it's going in Ukraine, just that we are sending more and more resources over there, to a country and war we should have nothing to do with.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
I've been hearing nothing but propaganda a out how bad Russia is losing for over a year now. Yet the war wages on. If they were losing anywhere CLOSE to as bad as all that propaganda said, they'd be utterly fucked at this point.

Consider for a second that both sides are lying to you.

We don't really know how it's going in Ukraine, just that we are sending more and more resources over there, to a country and war we should have nothing to do with.

...No, if you actually pay attention, it's possible to get a decent picture of how things are going in the Ukraine. It isn't that hard.
 

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