Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

Megadeath

Megadeath

Well-known member
Agent23 said:
Without Europe Russia can't possibly sell gas...


Woops, nevermind.
Click to expand...

When you have one option for who to sell to, that customer is already handily fulfilling their needs, and you need the money for selling your product, who do you think dictates the price? If Russia does make significant sales, it'll only be buy selling at a significantly reduced price. I guess we'll add basic supply and demand to the ever growing list of things you don't understand or know about.
 
Zachowon

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
paulobrito said:
Oh, right. Another subscriber of that fantasy. You see that in so many countries.
If our politicians let us fight we don't lose. Right. Dream on.
You are only good at crashing the place in the initial moves, nothing more.
Read a bit of your military history, without the propaganda turned on, and you see the reality.
But I bet that is going to be difficult for you, after all, decades of indoctrination make a mess of your cognitive capabilities.
Click to expand...
paulobrito said:
That depends on what you call military operations.
Securing the territory is also part of the military job, and that is one of the parts that the US fails time and again.
For you only battle count. For me - and the rest of the world - no, that is only the initial move.
Or using an old but still valid expression - winning all the battles, losing all wars. Or, from victory to victory up to the final defeat.
You can't dissociate the killing from the objectives. Yes, the US military is good at the killing phase, but little more.
Your point is that the rest is not the responsibility of the military. Sorry, is only your opinion.
Click to expand...
Answer the question.
Give us times the US has lost militarily since Vietnam.
We are waiting.

I also find it funny that both Megadeath and Lord Sovereign are not American and even say American military has not lost and won.

So please. Show us
 
Lord Sovereign

Lord Sovereign

The resident Britbong
Zachowon said:
Answer the question.
Give us times the US has lost militarily since Vietnam.
We are waiting.

I also find it funny that both Megadeath and Lord Sovereign are not American and even say American military has not lost and won.

So please. Show us
Click to expand...

I am British and I think Megadeath is an Auzzie (if memory serves).

The Anglosphere and Europe get to live in relative peace because of the overwhelming military might of the United States. I'd almost compare you lot to the Legions of Rome, except you haven't got an "Afghanicus" allowed to grind the barbarians into a bloody smear.

Edit: The US military is so sodding mighty that Her Majesty's Armed Forces are essentially glorified Imperial Auxiliaries at the moment.
 
A

ATP

Well-known member
WolfBear said:
I thought that the current arrangement with the US has been working rather well for Deutschland Uber Alles, no? They've reunified, became the EU's largest economy, got the EU to expand significantly eastward, and remain under the US's NATO protection.
Click to expand...
Yes,it is working for them,they enslaved Europe economically and USA is defending them.
But - they are typical german idiots,who are dreaming about Mother Russia.So,they want kick off USA,and made deal with Moscov again.Idiots forget,that Mother Russia is long dead,and what is left is KGBstan which want go all Sralin on them,if they could.
If their idea worked,they would be genocided after us.

They are idiots,or soviet agents.Merkel could be.
Do not blame @sillygoose - he see world dominate by leftist,and want somebody able to do save us.That is why he belive against reality in not longer existing Mother Russia and non existing Putin genius.
When i was younger,i belived in Saintly USA and good political geniuses,too.

But,we must choose lesser evil - in this case,Biden,becouse he would not starting genocide after his victory,like Putin.
 
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Zachowon

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Lord Sovereign said:
I am British and I think Megadeath is an Auzzie (if memory serves).

The Anglosphere and Europe get to live in relative peace because of the overwhelming military might of the United States. I'd almost compare you lot to the Legions of Rome, except you haven't got an "Afghanicus" allowed to grind the barbarians into a bloody smear.

Edit: The US military is so sodding mighty that Her Majesty's Armed Forces are essentially glorified Imperial Auxiliaries at the moment.
Click to expand...
You will always be that.
Yall are a lot more selective in your military.
We just let damn near everyone in and they eventually weed themselves out.
Now we also don't follow our own doctrine and do what we feel will work while everyone else follows doctrine.
NCOs for the win
 
paulobrito

paulobrito

Well-known member
For some people, the military job is only shooting at the other side. That is barely half of what the military does.
Even more in the case of you invading/occupying another country. see all American adventures - they invade and occupy other countries, but never - after Korea - stabilize the occupied country. And, yes, that is part of the job of the military - are they the ones doing the occupation, after all. In that job, they are an abject failure time and again. They 'win' the first and easier part of the mission/job but always lose the real hard job.
For some - you know who - that is not the job of the military - so easy to say that the part you fail time and again and that leads to your defeats is not your job. always going the easy path.
But, well, some people don't understand the world outside their fantasies.

Has I said before - the US military is good at the breaking things / killing part - the easy one. The rest? Not so much.
and all of the US defeats/going home in shame are because of that.
 
Bacle

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
This idea that military prowess on the battlefield and combat in general are divorced from politics and political objectives is pure US military cope they came up with to deflect blame from their own part in why the US public turned against the Vietnam and other conflicts.

Hint, Mai Lai Massacre was a thing, as was the drug/sex trade within the US military that the brass tried to downplay and ignore. Like, the Vietcong's head intel guy in S.Vietnam was basically a pimp who got info from his girls, who did business with GIs regularly.

War is just diplomacy by other means, after all, and that the US military keeps forgetting this axiom when it hurts their pride is part of why a lot of the public has less and less willingness to put up with military life.
 
Agent23

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Lord Sovereign said:
I am British and I think Megadeath is an Auzzie (if memory serves).

The Anglosphere and Europe get to live in relative peace because of the overwhelming military might of the United States. I'd almost compare you lot to the Legions of Rome, except you haven't got an "Afghanicus" allowed to grind the barbarians into a bloody smear.

Edit: The US military is so sodding mighty that Her Majesty's Armed Forces are essentially glorified Imperial Auxiliaries at the moment.
Click to expand...
That is a nice way of saying that the UK is a massive, immobile US aircraft carrier.
 
paulobrito

paulobrito

Well-known member
Also, in Iraq and Afghanistan, look at the work done by continental European forces in stabilizing the areas where they operate. Them, compare these with the areas managed by the US forces. You see a clear difference.
But, for some people, the role of the military is just to be a Hulk - smash.
 
Zachowon

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
paulobrito said:
For some people, the military job is only shooting at the other side. That is barely half of what the military does.
Even more in the case of you invading/occupying another country. see all American adventures - they invade and occupy other countries, but never - after Korea - stabilize the occupied country. And, yes, that is part of the job of the military - are they the ones doing the occupation, after all. In that job, they are an abject failure time and again. They 'win' the first and easier part of the mission/job but always lose the real hard job.
For some - you know who - that is not the job of the military - so easy to say that the part you fail time and again and that leads to your defeats is not your job. always going the easy path.
But, well, some people don't understand the world outside their fantasies.

Has I said before - the US military is good at the breaking things / killing part - the easy one. The rest? Not so much.
and all of the US defeats/going home in shame are because of that.
Click to expand...
Again.
Bacle said:
This idea that military prowess on the battlefield and combat in general are divorced from politics and political objectives is pure US military cope they came up with to deflect blame from their own part in why the US public turned against the Vietnam and other conflicts.

Hint, Mai Lai Massacre was a thing, as was the drug/sex trade within the US military that the brass tried to downplay and ignore. Like, the Vietcong's head intel guy in S.Vietnam was basically a pimp who got info from his girls, who did business with GIs regularly.

War is just diplomacy by other means, after all, and that the US military keeps forgetting this axiom when it hurts their pride is part of why a lot of the public has less and less willingness to put up with military life.
Click to expand...
It is all about military capabilities. We srnt trained to be diplomats. Hearts and minds is not something we train for.
We were thrown into it without the training doing something the State Department was supposed to do.
Vietnam we were told not to hold places or not to take places.
Things we had no control when the politics deam it nessecaty and don't give us the proper things to do it.
They expect us to be diplomats in a hostile country. Tie our hands behind our back, and expect us to be a government.
State Department does that. Not the DoD
 
Bacle

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Zachowon said:
Again.

It is all about military capabilities. We srnt trained to be diplomats. Hearts and minds is not something we train for.
We were thrown into it without the training doing something the State Department was supposed to do.
Vietnam we were told not to hold places or not to take places.
Things we had no control when the politics deam it nessecaty and don't give us the proper things to do it.
They expect us to be diplomats in a hostile country. Tie our hands behind our back, and expect us to be a government.
State Department does that. Not the DoD
Click to expand...
And that is just a long way of admitting I am right, and that the US military's prowess does not mean squat when the fact is conflict is NEVER just decided by the grunts on the field or their immediate superiors; war ends at the negotiating table, not on the battlefield.

The State Dept also overrides the DoD, because once again, in the US, civie authority over the military is a bedrock principle of our nation. That the military still has this illusion that conflict can be divorced from politics, either domestic and international, is laughable and pure cope.
 
paulobrito

paulobrito

Well-known member
The State Department doesn't have thousands of people on the ground interacting with the locals.
Funny, like I said - look at what the continental European forces did in Iraq and Afghanistan - heck, even the Portuguese GNR did a much better job than the US military.
You are not trained for that, you do it so bad that is the cause of your defeats / being expelled by said countries years later.
You need to train for that - or you continue to be in one mess after another.
 
Zachowon

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Bacle said:
And that is just a long way of admitting I am right, and that the US military's prowess does not mean squat when the fact is conflict is NEVER just decided by the grunts on the field or their immediate superiors; war ends at the negotiating table, not on the battlefield.

The State Dept also overrides the DoD, because once again, in the US, civie authority over the military is a bedrock principle of our nation. That the military still has this illusion that conflict can be divorced from politics, either domestic and international, is laughable and pure cope.
Click to expand...
No. Military can be divorced and state department has no say over the DoD. They go and run to tj3 president who then tells us. Because the state department doesn't wanna fo thier job.

War ends on the battlefield. The negotiations table is a way to stop the war from being complete disaster by complete annihilation. Military wins wars. Diplomats stop the war
paulobrito said:
The State Department doesn't have thousands of people on the ground interacting with the locals.
Funny, like I said - look at what the continental European forces did in Iraq and Afghanistan - heck, even the Portuguese GNR did a much better job than the US military.
You are not trained for that, you do it so bad that is the cause of your defeats / being expelled by said countries years later.
You need to train for that - or you continue to be in one mess after another.
Click to expand...
Uh
What?
We are the most well trained Military in the world. Why should we train and completely change doctrine that we would have to completely rework for when we face a peer nation....
We are trained to fight peer enemies these days
 
Bacle

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Zachowon said:
No. Military can be divorced and state department has no say over the DoD. They go and run to tj3 president who then tells us. Because the state department doesn't wanna fo thier job.

War ends on the battlefield. The negotiations table is a way to stop the war from being complete disaster by complete annihilation. Military wins wars. Diplomats stop the war
Click to expand...
The State Dept has control over the DoD's ROE and what objectives they pursue strategically; POTUS (outside Trump) rarely go against the State Dept.

And the military hasn't 'won' anything since the Gulf War.
 
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