China Wuhan Virus Pandemic

Captain X

Well-known member
Osaul
The religous right is actually a whole lot more tolerant then people give them credit for.

I'm jewish and quite openly so, I treat their convictions with respect and for the most part relgious people will treat my convictions with respect. I've lived in trailer parks I've been around these people and for the most part if you treat them with respect they will do so for you as well.

The people who have treated me the absolute worst were socialists of various stripes.

Honestly, most Christians assume that you are Christian, and if you reveal this to not be the case or they find out somehow, it's kind of a crapshoot if they are still the same way toward you or not.

As for the left, they may call themselves atheist, but they are not. They think they are because they are not Christian, but they still worship abstract authority over themselves which they don't really understand.
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Rocinante

Russian Bot
Founder
Honestly, most Christians assume that you are Christian, and if you reveal this to not be the case or they find out somehow, it's kind of a crapshoot if they are still the same way toward you or not.

As for the left, they may call themselves atheist, but they are not. They think they are because they are not Christian, but they still worship abstract authority over themselves which they don't really understand.
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Christians almost always seem to be more pleasant than other atheists.

I say this an atheist who respects other's religious beliefs, but used to be one of those combative atheists. I cant fucking stand them. They give the rest of us a bad name.

So I recognize that, and don't allow the shittt Christians to give the rest of them a bad name.

In general they are loving, caring people.
 

Morphic Tide

Well-known member
Not that said question was directed at you in the first place, but it's fascinating how you're trying to blame Christianity for things which became rife once Christianity was rejected.
It's no different from most criticism of Communism, in that it's about the failure modes particular to it. The bloodbaths of the Protestant Reformation were long before rejection of Christianity, being as how they were entirely about trying to fix it, and it just so happens that Utopian thinking abounded then just as it did for the later bloodshed you blame Atheism alone for.

It is from Christian doctrine that "Atheist" ideologies and violent Protestant outbursts got the push for monopoly from. It is from Christian doctrine that they got the notion of utopia as an expectation of moral behavior. It is from these two that Europe lost its grasp of compromising value systems to tolerate strangers from strange lands, or how to be such without disruption.

What fundamental atheist virtues
Again, "Atheism" is a term describing views not held, not views that are held. Such does not exist just as "fundamental monotheist virtues" do not, in both cases they cover radically different sets of beliefs. You may as well be complaining that Monotheism is unworkable because Christians and Muslims have an extremely long history of murdering eachother over "irrelevant" differences, and there's less distance between those than some of the atheist ideologies!
 

TheRejectionist

TheRejectionist
Dudes for fucks sake you guys arguing over religion in the Flu thread.

A decent person is a decent person. Regardless if what "religion" or lack thereof she or he has.
I know this might count a double posting but I would like to add : also political orientation.

I can count myself lucky that I wide arrange of political friends for all over the world.

I would tell you guys something funny that sounds like a joke : to (probably) many HERE I am left /far left , to (lots) of my friends I am far right.
 

Jormungandr

The Midgard Wyrm
Founder
Christians almost always seem to be more pleasant than other atheists.

I say this an atheist who respects other's religious beliefs, but used to be one of those combative atheists. I cant fucking stand them. They give the rest of us a bad name.

So I recognize that, and don't allow the shittt Christians to give the rest of them a bad name.

In general they are loving, caring people.
Oh, I've nothing against Christians on the whole (unless they're the batshit kind and Evangelicals) -- where I live in the UK is traditionally a Christian area, after all.
No, actually, atheism really, really is exactly that excuse.

When you turn morality into a matter of personal preference, it's as easy as changing one's opinion to morally justify literally anything.

There's a reason that all the great butchers of the 20th century were atheists, and it isn't 'coincidence.' It is the inevitable result of men trying to become god.

And yes, some morally corrupt people have used the social and political hierarchies of christianity to do the same, but fascinatingly they were neither as successful in their slaughter, nor able to justify it by the creed they taught.

If you want to argue, then tell me what moral injunction inherent to atheism bars people like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot from doing what they did?
And this is an example of the problem: people can be shitty with or without religion being involved or being used as a justification/excuse/cause. People are shitty with or without religion as a compass, and people can be shitty and do horrific things both in the name of religion and in the absence of it (e.g. Communism).

Conversely, you can be a nice, moral person without religion being your moral compass, and that's what a lot of Christians in the States fail to understand: just because someone doesn't believe doesn't mean they're a moraless person.

It's not a binary "either or" option.

This is an impasse that a lot of Americans, even the most nicest, kindest person on the Right/Conservative, cannot seem to comprehend or understand -- you don't need religion to be a moral, just person. However, not believing doesn't give people the excuse to be shitty people, either.

This is why most of the world, or at least the rest of the West, looks at America oddly, and presumes that you're either Leftoid nuts or religious fundamentalists to some degree.

And, to an extent, I agree with them.

Edit: back on topic.



They're firing him.

I wonder what dirt/influence "certain parties" have on the Board to make them do this? They've effectively neutralized Veritas.
 
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ATP

Well-known member
The Spanish burning of the Mayan codices as heresys, the 'conversion-at-sword-point' crusades (not just a Muslim action) and similar actions in the Americas, the Inquisition's excesses, the outright corruption in the Vatican and schism with the Orthodox and Copts (Copts are closet thing to ancestral, true Christians left, with roots older than European or Greek Christendom and nowhere near the blood on their hands as religious organizations compared to both the Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox), the Salem Witch Trials (the Right really likes to ignore this events impact on the America psyche/folklore when it comes to warnings about religion, and the Founders were not that far removed from the time of the witch trials), and things like the Waco (yes, the ATF were murderous cunts there, but the religious group were borderline groomers in how their isolationist streak affected their kids, which is conveniently ignored by the Right), and then things like the Scopes Monkey trial over teaching evolution.

There is a reason the Left in the US find converts in those who have expereinced abuses by people claiming to be religious, and the Right is going to have to reckon with that at some point.
1.Burned codex,but saved people,who keep their lands till Mexican masons supported by USA take it.
2.Crusaders actually NEVER conversed muslims in their lands using force.
3.Inquisition excess - about 10.000KIA during 600 years.Sralin killed more in week.Robespierre in month.
4.Orthodox was part of state,not church.Copts prefered muslims to other christians.They get what they wish for.
5.Salems witch - tragedy,sure.But again,Sralin killed more,this time in hour.
6.Waco - Clinton simply murdered his ex-boduguards which knew about his rapes.Those cultists must die to cover that.And,he never was punished for that - and never be on this world.


USA abuses - dunno about protestants there,but catholic Church was sadly taken over by homosex mafia there,which like raping boys.
You could blame it partially on popes,that they do not prevented that.


And,about Inquisition and Salem trials - they at least could claim,that they burn people to save their souls,and maybe they saved them indeed.We would knew after our deaths.
It was evil,but logical.

But leftist was genociding millions of millions to made foe them Paradise on Earth.How could you made for somebody Paradise on Earth,if you kill him first?
It was not only evil,but also illogical from the start.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
And this is an example of the problem: people can be shitty with or without religion being involved or being used as a justification/excuse/cause. People are shitty with or without religion as a compass, and people can be shitty and do horrific things both in the name of religion and in the absence of it (e.g. Communism).
You're both assuming an argument on my part, and ignoring my point.

Yes, bad things happened during the protestant vs catholic conflicts in Europe during the reformation and renaissance. Tens, maybe even hundreds of thousands died.

Then atheism began to rise to prominence, and tens of millions died, on the conservative estimates.

That is a stark, massive change, one which so many atheists just keep refusing to acknowledge.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker


They're firing him.

I wonder what dirt/influence "certain parties" have on the Board to make them do this? They've effectively neutralized Veritas.

Anyone who matters will leave with him to create Project Veritas 2. Everyone who doesn't will be out of a job (and likely a career) anyways in less than a year, when the board runs the company into the ground.
 

Morphic Tide

Well-known member
That is a stark, massive change, one which so many atheists just keep refusing to acknowledge.
There were hundreds to thousands of times the people governed, far more centralized governments to be wielded against said people, vastly more effective means of killing, and society could maintain the bare essentials with a smaller portion. And again, the reasoning behind it follows from Christian totalizing morality and Utopianism. The features of the ideologies in question responsible for the genocides of the 20th century are all able to be found within Catholicism.

You can bitch all you want about only Atheists actually doing it, but the ideas are a failure of Christianity just as the totalitarian bullshit of Stalin is a failure of Communism. The Catholic Church took great pains to be rid of all other moral authority and rejects the validity of such as a premise of its own legitimacy, so when it discredited Christianity itself with the shit it got up to trying to hold onto power, Europe had nothing at home to turn to.

To return to your initial post:

When you turn morality into a matter of personal preference
Literally backwards, the genocides happened due to absolute refusal of personal preference. This is what I refer to with "totalizing", both Christianity and the successor Utopian Atheist ideologies you're complaining about demand to be the only moral framework. None of them are functional with competition. What moral relativism did was put the keys on auction, bought with the lives of dissidents.

It is the inevitable result of men trying to become god.
Didn't seem to be a problem for all the Pagan societies that frequently deified rulers, the Roman Empire included. It's almost like the problem is the notion that a singular unquestionable moral authority that needs followed on all matters is acceptable. Certainly, the atheist societies dominated by actually leaving morality to personal preference don't seem to have genocides, it's only when demagogues get that to stop being the case that they crop up.

nor able to justify it by the creed they taught.
When the options are "conversion or damnation", it becomes imperative to be rid of as much pressure against the former as possible, which inevitably lands on killing off those who refuse to convert so they cannot lead others astray. Every single bloodbath of the Protestant Reformation and every brutality in the interest of conversion was well-justified by this, even if it wasn't in keeping with doctrine, because it's too incredibly blatant a logical conclusion to prevent.
 

Rocinante

Russian Bot
Founder
Kid of a friend of mine is now periodically sick.

"I don't know why" she told me.

I know the goddamn answer is either that poison or psychosomatic. Can't be anything else.
Well perhaps that, but more likely a lot of the issue is that isolating for two years and not being exposed to anything really weakens the immune system, and leads to a pretty bad cold/flu season. Everyone's kids are getting sick constantly, regardless of vaccine status. A lot of my parent friends are saying this. Well, no shit. It's almost like some of us called this out years ago.

My real concern with the shots is heart conditions, reproductive issues and the fact that recent evidence shows that it may be actually training bodies to not fight covid at all. Which is all sorts of bad.
 

DarthOne

☦️

The CDC Lied: The mRNA Wasn't Meant to "Stay in the Arm"


The CDC's information page on Covid-19 vaccines contains the following bullet points on "How mRNA COVID-19 vaccines work:"

First, mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are given in the upper arm muscle or upper thigh, depending on the age of who is getting vaccinated.
After vaccination, the mRNA will enter the muscle cells. Once inside, they use the cells' machinery to produce a harmless piece of what is called the spike protein…. After the protein piece is made, our cells break down the mRNA and remove it, leaving the body as waste.

Or, in other words, as we have long been told, "it" – the mRNA – "stays in the arm." And then, after having instructed the muscle cells to produce the spike, is disposed of.

But look at the below picture from a recent presentation on mRNA vaccination at the European Parliament. The picture was posted on Twitter by Virginie Joron, a French member of the parliament. The speaker is no less an authority than Özlem Türeci, the Chief Medical Officer of BioNTech: the German biotech company that developed what has come to be known to most of the world as the "Pfizer" Covid-19 vaccine.

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Have a closer look at Türeci's slide, which tells a very different story than that which the CDC has been telling Americans for the last two years.

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Far from "staying in the arm" and entering the muscle cells at the injection site, the injection site is only the point of departure for a journey that is supposed to take the mRNA rather to the lymph nodes. The subtitle of the slide is "Bringing mRNA to the right cells at the right places." The deltoid is not the right place; the lymph nodes are.

Once in the lymph nodes, a specific sort of cell, the dendritic cells, is supposed to manufacture the spike protein: here colorfully described as the "wanted poster" that will help the immune system to identify the SARS-CoV-2 virus in case of subsequent exposure.

A passage from The Vaccine, the book that Türeci and her husband, BioNTech CEO Ugur Sahin, wrote which journalist Joe Miller, explains why BioNTech's platform specifically targets the lymph nodes:

What Ugur learnt was that the location to which a vaccine delivers its 'wanted poster' really mattered. The reason for this, the couple's team in Mainz later realised, was that not all dendritic cells … were created equal. The ones that resided in lymph nodes – of which the spleen is the largest – were particularly adept at capturing mRNA and making sure the instructions it carried were acted upon. These kidney-bean shaped organs, found under our armpits, in our groins, and at several other outposts in the body, are the information hubs of the immune system. (p. 98)
Indeed, Sahin and Türeci were so determined to get their mRNA into the lymph nodes that they had an earlier mRNA construct injected directly into the patient's lymph nodes in the groin (p. 104).

Needless to say, such an approach was not likely to obtain wide acceptance as a vaccine! This is why the couple, as explained in their book, needed to package the mRNA in lipid nanoparticles, in order to ensure that mRNA administered by way of an intramuscular injection would, nonetheless, be widely distributed around the body and thus reach the lymph nodes.

This is to say that the wide biodistribution of the mRNA that came to light after rollout was never a bug. It is a feature of BioNTech's mRNA technology. Having elicited an immune response by way of injection into the groin, Sahin is even said to have wondered, "How substantial could the immune response be if a vaccine got into all lymphatic tissues around the body, and recruited all the resident DCs [dendritic cells] into action?" (p. 105)

So, why has the CDC been lying about this for the last two years and insisting that the mRNA "stays in the arm?" Well, the obvious answer is that the idea of the mRNA staying at the injection site is reassuring, since otherwise we could fear systemic adverse effects of precisely the sort that have emerged since rollout.

It is worth noting, moreover, that in developing its vaccine, as discussed in my earlier article here, BioNTech simply skipped the so-called safety pharmacology studies whose purpose is precisely to test a candidate vaccine for potential systemic adverse effects – and regulators, including the FDA, let the company do it.


The mRNA was always meant to leave the arm and go to the lymph nodes. The CDC either lied when they said it stayed in the arm or they didn't know what they were taking about. Which is worse?
 

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