Would Segregation have been wrong if it really was separate but equal?

[Scottty]

The Bible has an answer for this in the form of Matthew 22:21:

What does Matthew 22:21 mean? | BibleRef.com

They *said to Him, 'Caesar’s.' Then He *said to them, 'Then pay to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s; and to God the things that are God’s.' - What is the meaning of Matthew 22:21?

www.bibleref.com

That's basically Jesus saying "pay your taxes and don't be an ass about it."

Actually, no, that's not what it's about at all.

Jesus said nothing about whether the Romans had a right to impose taxes. The question was what a person who found himself in the situation of the Empire imposing taxation should do. Would be it right or wrong to comply?

Do you have a moral duty to reject the rule of Caesar? Is it a sin to pay taxes?

Jesus' answer: No.

 

[bintananth]

It's not the first time a temper tantrum sent human civilisation back a few centuries. When the bread and circuses run out it will run out and people will find other shit to do.

There is a road in Colorado called "The Million Dollar Highway" connecting two small towns: Silverton and Ourey. Roughly a century ago that road was more expensive to build than this:

Parts of US-550 between those two towns are nothing more than paved ledge cut into the side of a cliff with no guard rails.

Behold:

 

[Arch Dornan]

There is a road in Colorado called "The Million Dollar Highway" connecting two small towns: Silverton and Ourey. Roughly a century ago that road was more expensive to build than this:

Parts of US-550 between those two towns are nothing more than paved ledge cut into the side of a cliff with no guard rails.

Behold:

Your point? Governments in the past make infrastructure their successors use or misuse after they're gone.

 

[Abhorsen]

The Bible has an answer for this in the form of Matthew 22:21:

What does Matthew 22:21 mean? | BibleRef.com

They *said to Him, 'Caesar’s.' Then He *said to them, 'Then pay to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s; and to God the things that are God’s.' - What is the meaning of Matthew 22:21?

www.bibleref.com

That's basically Jesus saying "pay your taxes and don't be an ass about it."

Yeah, he can go fuck himself and the donkey he rode in on, I'm not a Christian. I don't even believe in God.

And we won't have our bread and circuses shortly afterwards. A single mile of a two lane city street in the US costs roughly four million dollars just to build and you don't have to pay a toll to use them when you're out and about doing everyday things.

It costs $4M partially because of the amount of red tape, but for arguments sake, I'll act like somehow the government is needed for roadbuilding.

With roadbuilding, one can at least formulate an argument that they are so vital its worth killing people over, and for sake of argument, I've granted that only the government can do that.

But legal segregation, even equal segregation, is a violation of the NAP twice over, once in funding it, a second time in enforcing it, and I've seen scant to no argument for it being good. That's before even getting into that it's a bad idea. So no, we have violations of the NAP that I'm certainly not willing to kill over. And if you are, you've got problems.

 

[bintananth]

But legal segregation, even equal segregation, is a violation of the NAP twice over, once in funding it, a second time in enforcing it, and I've seen scant to no argument for it being good. That's before even getting into that it's a bad idea. So no, we have violations of the NAP that I'm certainly not willing to kill over. And if you are, you've got problems.

No one in this thread has advocated any form of segregation beyond gender segregated public restrooms.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Actually, no, that's not what it's about at all.

Jesus said nothing about whether the Romans had a right to impose taxes. The question was what a person who found himself in the situation of the Empire imposing taxation should do. Would be it right or wrong to comply?

Do you have a moral duty to reject the rule of Caesar? Is it a sin to pay taxes?

Jesus' answer: No.

it should also be noted, the people who asked him that question I believe were trying to trap him if he said yes you have a moral duty to reject the rule of Caesar, then they could charge him with insurrection against the roman empire where they could then have him killed, if he told them to kiss ceaser's butt then it would draw the ire of the people and they would seek to stone him.

So basically Jesus was saying. "I know what you're trying to do, I'm not going to fall for it. Stop trying to be two-faced politicians and give God his proper due just as you do Ceaser."

We do know in other scriptures that Paul had and did use his rights as a roman citizen to protest an illegal act of arrest by the government and as such we have the right to use our rights as American citizens granted by the constitution such as peacefully protest against laws we think are unjust, lobbying against unfair laws. THE RIGHT TO BARE ARMS, The problem is we don't seem to want to do this and just go straight into breaking things.

Honestly we should be considering ourselves blessed by God we live in the country we do. Rome was founded on the Idea that the common born was but a mere barbarian and it was the duty of the senate and the emperor to "Shepard" them. Which basically became. "You are our toy to do as we please barbarian slave."

Where as in our country we have the right and a lesser extent a duty to be an educated participatent in the governing process and to hold those that represent us accountable. We have failed on many fronts.

 

[King Arts]

Well, just as a starter, taxation is theft, so if it's for even an amoral purpose it's wrong. On top of that, unless there is a morally good reason for segregation, then government enforcing even an amoral law is immoral.

Taxation is not theft.
The money is made by the government they are the ones who make it, and distribute it.

It costs $4M partially because of the amount of red tape, but for arguments sake, I'll act like somehow the government is needed for roadbuilding.

With roadbuilding, one can at least formulate an argument that they are so vital its worth killing people over, and for sake of argument, I've granted that only the government can do that.

But legal segregation, even equal segregation, is a violation of the NAP twice over, once in funding it, a second time in enforcing it, and I've seen scant to no argument for it being good. That's before even getting into that it's a bad idea. So no, we have violations of the NAP that I'm certainly not willing to kill over. And if you are, you've got problems.

Only libertarians believe in or care about your non aggression principle.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Taxation is not theft.
The money is made by the government they are the ones who make it, and distribute it.


Only libertarians believe in or care about your non aggression principle.

Funny how nobody cares about anything until they are the ones that get wronged. Seriously, no one cares about guns until their property is the one that gets burned down, nobody cares about cancel culture until it's someone whom they agreed with that gets canceled. No one cares about the atrocities of the king until they are the ones that get put into his crap list. THEN they cry out and ask "Where is my justice?!? Where is my retribution?!?"

you reactionist are very much two steps behind every dance, but this is a topic for another thread and we are already way off topic of the original question.

 

[Abhorsen]

No one in this thread has advocated any form of segregation beyond gender segregated public restrooms.

That's literally the point of the thread? Would segregation be fine if it was separate but actually equal. I'm saying no because taxation is theft. Please forgive the use of 'you' there, that was a generalized statement not targeted at you, I'm being a little imprecise 9n my phone.

Taxation is not theft.
The money is made by the government they are the ones who make it, and distribute it.

First, that's not how ownership works. If I make something then sell it to you, I don't own it anymore, and it would be theft for me to take it by force.

Second, no, they only create the physical cash, what is known as M0. M1 through M4 is created by banks and other institutions that use credit or debit. And M0 is small compared to M1, let alone M2-4.

Third, they don't distribute money (except under socialism), they exchange money, through either replacing worn out cash, buying treasury bonds, or sometimes other purchases.

Only libertarians believe in or care about your non aggression principle.

No, most people care about the NAP, they just don't pay attention to its correlaries. Because mugging a random person on the street is considered wrong by nearly every society. What did the mugger do wrong? He aggressed.

 

[ShieldWife]

The Bible has an answer for this in the form of Matthew 22:21:

What does Matthew 22:21 mean? | BibleRef.com

They *said to Him, 'Caesar’s.' Then He *said to them, 'Then pay to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s; and to God the things that are God’s.' - What is the meaning of Matthew 22:21?

www.bibleref.com

That's basically Jesus saying "pay your taxes and don't be an ass about it."

Tell me, have you sold all of your possessions and given the money to the poor?

 

[bintananth]

Tell me, have you sold all of your possessions and given the money to the poor?

No. Have you?

Charity, like prayer, is something you should not brag about doing or call someone out for not doing so in public.

An Imam from Senegal said it best as part of a sermon: "When you see someone in need, you help them."

He puts his money where his mouth is. He gave a car to the homeless guy who gave my youngest daughter $50 with a "don't worry about it" when she needed gas money not too long ago.

 

[Cherico]

Tell me, have you sold all of your possessions and given the money to the poor?

I've always been honest about being greedy and cheap.

 

[bintananth]

I've always been honest about being greedy and cheap.

I know about the Imam's gift because it was given to the guy before one of my sisters could give him her SUV to replace the one which had been totaled in an accident two days earlier.

 

[Husky_Khan]

I was walking down the street late at night after hitting up the club when this cool guy who dressed totally urban hipster hit on me and we hooked up because we liked each other's sense of dress. I assumed he was wealthy because he talked about the cannabis industry a lot and how he had loads of followers on SoundCloud and TikTok. He was surprised I had a car for some reason and afterwards he asked to be dropped off somewhere downtown.

He gave me $50 bucks before exiting the car which I thought was strange but again I figured he was wealthy from the way he dressed and just wanted to dote on me. But when he went disappearing into the shadows of a tent city overpass it was then I realized I didn't hook up with a upscale urban hipster... I hooked up with a homeless guy... Who thought I was a prostitute... again...



Not sure why I decided to share that fictional story or it's immediate relevance to the thread but it seemed the appropriate time.

 

[ShieldWife]

No. Have you?

No, but I’m an atheist, so I don’t really care what Jesus said. Though if you can quote Jesus to support taxation, it seems reasonable for you to follow other things he said.

Edit: off topic, but someone offered my husband $10 the other day because they thought he was homeless.

 

[bintananth]

No, but I’m an atheist, so I don’t really care what Jesus said. Though if you can quote Jesus to support taxation, it seems reasonable for you to follow other things he said.

Edit: off topic, but someone offered my husband $10 the other day because they thought he was homeless.

Less than a month ago my youngest daughter was out and about without her purse or phone while babysitting one of my nieces (her cousin). She asked a homeless guy we know for a few bucks so she could get home.

He gave her $50 and said "don't worry about it".

 

[Scottty]

Tell me, have you sold all of your possessions and given the money to the poor?

I'm not living in the First Century when Jesus was walking around on earth with a group of people literally following Him around on foot... so no.

But seceding from secular society by joining a traveling missionary group would be a great way to not have to pay any taxes.

There also isn't any Roman Empire anymore, in case anyone didn't notice.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

I myself wouldn't call taxation "theft", as it is the price one pays for law, order and the defence of the realm, but it can be catastrophically overdone. Too much tax can ruin a country just as much as a rampaging army, and it's usually the result of that core malady: the government getting involved in too many things.

 

[King Arts]

I was walking down the street late at night after hitting up the club when this cool guy who dressed totally urban hipster hit on me and we hooked up because we liked each other's sense of dress. I assumed he was wealthy because he talked about the cannabis industry a lot and how he had loads of followers on SoundCloud and TikTok. He was surprised I had a car for some reason and afterwards he asked to be dropped off somewhere downtown.

He gave me $50 bucks before exiting the car which I thought was strange but again I figured he was wealthy from the way he dressed and just wanted to dote on me. But when he went disappearing into the shadows of a tent city overpass it was then I realized I didn't hook up with a upscale urban hipster... I hooked up with a homeless guy... Who thought I was a prostitute... again...



Not sure why I decided to share that fictional story or it's immediate relevance to the thread but it seemed the appropriate time.

Husky you are a woman? I did not know that.

 

[ShieldWife]

Taxation is not theft.
The money is made by the government they are the ones who make it, and distribute it.

I agree with you on some things in this thread, but I need to voice some objection here. The government “makes” money, it doesn’t actually make the stuff that money buys. It doesn’t make food, build houses, or create labor or scarce goods. Fiat currency only gives the government, and those it grants privileges to, a greater share of those scarce goods that already exist. When the government makes money, then the money itself is theft.