Would Segregation have been wrong if it really was separate but equal?

[Bear Ribs]

Bullshit. Studies show that the vast majority (over 70%) of all lottery winners end up blowing through their entire winnings in five years or less, ending up in exactly the same economic state as when they won. It has absolutely nothing to do with racial characteristics.

Edit: It has everything to do with the fact that investing a lottery windfall *and* structuring it to avoid massive tax losses is actually extremely tricky; even among investment professionals, it's a specialty skillset.

Note that 70% figure is a popular falsehood, it was not supported by the NEFE researchers who made the study it's based on, and is a fake news claim by Time Magazine that often gets repeated. Relatively few lottery winners waste it all and most are still significantly wealthier ten years later.

Everything You Know About the Fate of Lottery Winners Is Probably Wrong, According to Science

A New Study Debunks the "Curse of The Lottery" Myth

time.com

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

I mean you said that she kept paying bail for her boyfriend.

Could be they were more concerned about the boyfriend than anything. I know in my own neighborhood we were concerned about the people who constantly had issues with drugs.

 

[Aldarion]

So yeah, if blacks and whites literally had the same number and quality of public accommodations would racial segregation have been wrong? Also we can expand this beyond race, to religion, sex, politics, hair color whatever. Would government enforced separate accommodations for all of these be wrong?

It would be, because it would never have worked, and thus would have inevitably turned into oppression. But then again, any diverse society inevitably becomes an oppressive one... that is not something that can be avoided, unless you literally have homogenous societies within a larger society, akin to Roman system of municipalities within the wider Republic.

 

[Bear Ribs]

You also wind up with quibbles about what "equal" means. No really, once you get outside of pure mathematics it can get messy.

You have a black school and a white school (we'll ignore the Asian/Hispanic/Each Individual Indian Tribe/etc. schools for now) and the population is 15% black. Do you make identical schools? Then the blacks have a ridiculous amount of extra utilities per student and it's not equal. Do you make the black school 15% the size of the white school? Then the black school simply won't have numerous facilities like a marching band or dance hall because there are not enough students to sponge a buck apiece off of for it, so they aren't equal as the blacks never get those opportunities the whites have.

There's no real actual way to thread this needle, no matter what you do you're not going to be equal by somebody's standards.

 

[bintananth]

You also wind up with quibbles about what "equal" means. No really, once you get outside of pure mathematics it can get messy.

You have a black school and a white school (we'll ignore the Asian/Hispanic/Each Individual Indian Tribe/etc. schools for now) and the population is 15% black. Do you make identical schools? Then the blacks have a ridiculous amount of extra utilities per student and it's not equal. Do you make the black school 15% the size of the white school? Then the black school simply won't have numerous facilities like a marching band or dance hall because there are not enough students to sponge a buck apiece off of for it, so they aren't equal as the blacks never get those opportunities the whites have.

There's no real actual way to thread this needle, no matter what you do you're not going to be equal by somebody's standards.

There is a way to do it: put on a blindfold and do not look at someone's appearance or background* when considering if they are suitable for friendship.

* past activities are a different story. Sometimes they say that this person is someone you want nearby. Sometimes they say that "as far away as possible" isn't good enough.

 

[Bear Ribs]

There is a way to do it: put on a blindfold and do not look at someone's appearance or background* when considering if they are suitable for friendship.

* past activities are a different story. Sometimes they say that this person is someone you want nearby. Sometimes they say that "as far away as possible" isn't good enough.

... Please tell me you didn't actually fail your reading check that hard.

 

[bintananth]

... Please tell me you didn't actually fail your reading check that hard.

My wife is from rural Oregon and my twin sis is married to a guy from East St. Louis.
Those are only two of "where did your spouse come from?" my family has.

 

[Abhorsen]

If the people are willing to waste their tax money by doubling their expenses that's not neccesarily morally bad.

Well, just as a starter, taxation is theft, so if it's for even an amoral purpose it's wrong. On top of that, unless there is a morally good reason for segregation, then government enforcing even an amoral law is immoral.

 

[bintananth]

Well, just as a starter, taxation is theft, so if it's for even an amoral purpose it's wrong. On top of that, unless there is a morally good reason for segregation, then government enforcing even an amoral law is immoral.

Taxation is not theft. All of those little things like the sidewalks in my neighbourhood which do cost money but no one wants pay for do cost money.

 

[Arch Dornan]

Now, that having been said, one should oppose both government-imposed segregation, and government-imposed integration, for the exact same reason - because it is government imposed. People should be free to make their own choices.

Like the Amish in America or the Afrikaner only community in Orania?

 

[Scottty]

Like the Amish in America or the Afrikaner only community in Orania?

Orania isn't actually Afrikaner-only, but yes - nobody is being forced to live there, and they have right to set the rules for who belongs in their community and who doesn't.

 

[Arch Dornan]

Orania isn't actually Afrikaner-only, but yes - nobody is being forced to live there, and they have right to set the rules for who belongs in their community and who doesn't.

Can you explain me more about Orania? I got too much conflicting information online to get the right one. However yes it's a community with rules to live in trying to move on with their life and make end's meet that's getting shat on by the jealous and politically affiliated people who don't like it because their own social project is shit.

 

[Scottty]

Can you explain me more about Orania? I got too much conflicting information online to get the right one. However yes it's a community with rules to live in trying to move on with their life and make end's meet that's getting shat on by the jealous and politically affiliated people who don't like it because their own social project is shit.

I've no great amount of information myself. But apparently it's doing well.

 

[Abhorsen]

Taxation is not theft. All of those little things like the sidewalks in my neighbourhood which do cost money but no one wants pay for do cost money.

Taxation is 100% theft. It's non consensual taking of money. Sometimes one can justify the theft, but it is still theft. If I don't pay my taxes, they arrest me, and if I resist arrest I get shot. That's using the threat of violence to take money, i.e. theft.

So everything the government does must therefore be really justified as mass violence is being done to do this. Basically, always ask: Would I shoot and kill people to accomplish this goal? If not, don't use taxes or government force to do so. Remember, Eric Gardner was killed for a cigarette tax. So yes, even the small laws are lethal.

 

[bintananth]

Taxation is 100% theft. It's non consensual taking of money. Sometimes one can justify the theft, but it is still theft. If I don't pay my taxes, they arrest me, and if I resist arrest I get shot. That's using the threat of violence to take money, i.e. theft.

So everything the government does must therefore be really justified as mass violence is being done to do this. Basically, always ask: Would I shoot and kill people to accomplish this goal? If not, don't use taxes or government force to do so. Remember, Eric Gardner was killed for a cigarette tax. So yes, even the small laws are lethal.

The Bible has an answer for this in the form of Matthew 22:21:

What does Matthew 22:21 mean? | BibleRef.com

They *said to Him, 'Caesar’s.' Then He *said to them, 'Then pay to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s; and to God the things that are God’s.' - What is the meaning of Matthew 22:21?

www.bibleref.com

That's basically Jesus saying "pay your taxes and don't be an ass about it."

 

[Arch Dornan]

The Bible has an answer for this in the form of Matthew 22:21:

What does Matthew 22:21 mean? | BibleRef.com

They *said to Him, 'Caesar’s.' Then He *said to them, 'Then pay to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s; and to God the things that are God’s.' - What is the meaning of Matthew 22:21?

www.bibleref.com

That's basically Jesus saying "pay your taxes and don't be an ass about it."

If people followed that we wouldn't have had the Magna Carta, American or French Revolution. They'd shut the fuck up and accept getting taxed to the bone.

 

[bintananth]

If people followed that we wouldn't have had the Magna Carta, American or French Revolution. They'd shut the fuck up and accept getting taxed to the bone.

You can bitch about the level of taxation and protest that to your hearts content, but taxes are necessary.

I don't particularly like that the government gets roughly half of my paycheque but someone has to pay for all the freedom we enjoy and that someone is us.

 

[Arch Dornan]

You can bitch about the level of taxation and protest that to your hearts content, but taxes are necessary.

I don't particularly like that the government gets roughly half of my paycheque but someone has to pay for all the freedom we enjoy and that someone is us.

And then one day when the taxes are unaffordable that the gibs, breads and circuses run out the government will be overthrown like the many in the past.

 

[bintananth]

And then one day when the taxes are unaffordable that the gibs, breads and circuses run out the government will be overthrown like the many in the past.

And we won't have our bread and circuses shortly afterwards. A single mile of a two lane city street in the US costs roughly four million dollars just to build and you don't have to pay a toll to use them when you're out and about doing everyday things.

 

[Arch Dornan]

And we won't have our bread and circuses shortly afterwards. A single mile of a two lane city street in the US costs roughly four million dollars just to build and you don't have to pay a toll to use them when you're out and about doing everyday things.

It's not the first time a temper tantrum sent human civilisation back a few centuries. When the bread and circuses run out it will run out and people will find other shit to do.