"Woke" Franchises

Abhorsen

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Must've been quite the slap to her face.
I bet they phrased it nicely, but yeah, pretty much. I really can't recommend the animated series enough, especially given the WuFlu. Free trial and binge watch it.

So this will be a long post on 'Representation' of minorities, especially in pop culture.

First, what is Representation? Now, it's activists saying that having minority/women characters doing X is needed so that people of the same minority have someone to look up to. Representation is the reason Iron Man became black, Thor became a woman, etc. It's also the reason behind the Scarlett Johansson getting people pissed at her for acting an The Major in Ghost in the Shell and almost playing a trans man in a Biopic of his life.

But the origins of 'Representation Matters' make some a lot of sense, and it did do a lot of good before becoming what it is today.

First, in a seemingly non-sequitur, let's talk about how bigotry works. I'm cribbing this from Shapiro here, but basically ways in which people are anti-semetic are very different from how they are racist against black people. Anti-semitism puts Jews as controlling the world, while anti-black racism puts them as brutes, and below humans. Similarly, homophobia has a unique method of hatred. The major homophobic tropes are that gays (and by extension the rest of LGBT+) don't exist, and the ones that do exist are depraved/unnatural.

So let's look at Gay activism. Actual gay activism, not the stupid shit you see today. The real start of Gay activism was the 1969 Stonewall Riot. Suddenly, being 'Out, Loud, and Proud' was the goal. And why was it important to rub peoples face in it? Because otherwise gays would be ignored, like they had been for centuries. They had to prove to the world that they existed. This is why Pride Parades are so bold (and to some, obnoxious and over-sexualized). During the AIDS crisis, this became even more important. AIDS was basically Corona that only hit gays, and they had no idea how it spread. And no media talked about it, the federal government didn't even acknowledge it. 'Silence = Death' became a slogan. All of this was targeted at the main homophobic trope of gays not existing, but they exacerbated the second trope of gays being unnatural or depraved.

Here is where gay rights got hooked to pop culture. Probably starting with Ellen Degeneres coming out on The Puppy Episode, we started celebrating representation, any representation. Because representation hit against both homophobic attacks. It shows we exist, and it usually shows that we are normalish. This includes stuff like Sweepsweek girl kisses, to the Sassy Gay Friend, to actually celebrities coming out, to functional gay characters like Oscar in the Office, or Modern Family. How did this stuff get on television? A couple of ways, but largely lesbians led the way, because lesbians are hot and women non-threatening, so men wouldn't object. All of this was celebrated by the gay community under 'Representation Matters', and it played a huge part in normalizing gay relationships.

Occasionally, one of the ways representation worked was by queering a character. This isn't as bad as what would follow. A character being bi and not realizing it/acting on it is truth in television, as is a character hiding that they are gay. Also, it meant no change to the character except who they were attracted to. We can see this with Willow (Buffy the Vampire Slayer), who no one really cares that her sexuality suddenly changed. But honestly, most gay characters weren't initially planned to be gay, but were just eventually queered.

And now we get to the spread of Representation Matters. And intersectionality is to blame. Basically, one of the precepts of intersectionality is that all hate is identical. Remember that discussion of how different bigotry is unique? The progressives tend to conflate all hate under one umbrella. So they conclude that the solutions must also be identical, and that we also are in a racist, misogynistic, homophobic culture that needs the solutions. And that's why people still call for black representation, or Asian representation, or Muslim representation, as if that will fix the problems those communities face.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
I bet they phrased it nicely, but yeah, pretty much. I really can't recommend the animated series enough, especially given the WuFlu. Free trial and binge watch it.

So this will be a long post on 'Representation' of minorities, especially in pop culture.

First, what is Representation? Now, it's activists saying that having minority/women characters doing X is needed so that people of the same minority have someone to look up to. Representation is the reason Iron Man became black, Thor became a woman, etc. It's also the reason behind the Scarlett Johansson getting people pissed at her for acting an The Major in Ghost in the Shell and almost playing a trans man in a Biopic of his life.

But the origins of 'Representation Matters' make some a lot of sense, and it did do a lot of good before becoming what it is today.

First, in a seemingly non-sequitur, let's talk about how bigotry works. I'm cribbing this from Shapiro here, but basically ways in which people are anti-semetic are very different from how they are racist against black people. Anti-semitism puts Jews as controlling the world, while anti-black racism puts them as brutes, and below humans. Similarly, homophobia has a unique method of hatred. The major homophobic tropes are that gays (and by extension the rest of LGBT+) don't exist, and the ones that do exist are depraved/unnatural.

So let's look at Gay activism. Actual gay activism, not the stupid shit you see today. The real start of Gay activism was the 1969 Stonewall Riot. Suddenly, being 'Out, Loud, and Proud' was the goal. And why was it important to rub peoples face in it? Because otherwise gays would be ignored, like they had been for centuries. They had to prove to the world that they existed. This is why Pride Parades are so bold (and to some, obnoxious and over-sexualized). During the AIDS crisis, this became even more important. AIDS was basically Corona that only hit gays, and they had no idea how it spread. And no media talked about it, the federal government didn't even acknowledge it. 'Silence = Death' became a slogan. All of this was targeted at the main homophobic trope of gays not existing, but they exacerbated the second trope of gays being unnatural or depraved.

Here is where gay rights got hooked to pop culture. Probably starting with Ellen Degeneres coming out on The Puppy Episode, we started celebrating representation, any representation. Because representation hit against both homophobic attacks. It shows we exist, and it usually shows that we are normalish. This includes stuff like Sweepsweek girl kisses, to the Sassy Gay Friend, to actually celebrities coming out, to functional gay characters like Oscar in the Office, or Modern Family. How did this stuff get on television? A couple of ways, but largely lesbians led the way, because lesbians are hot and women non-threatening, so men wouldn't object. All of this was celebrated by the gay community under 'Representation Matters', and it played a huge part in normalizing gay relationships.

Occasionally, one of the ways representation worked was by queering a character. This isn't as bad as what would follow. A character being bi and not realizing it/acting on it is truth in television, as is a character hiding that they are gay. Also, it meant no change to the character except who they were attracted to. We can see this with Willow (Buffy the Vampire Slayer), who no one really cares that her sexuality suddenly changed. But honestly, most gay characters weren't initially planned to be gay, but were just eventually queered.

And now we get to the spread of Representation Matters. And intersectionality is to blame. Basically, one of the precepts of intersectionality is that all hate is identical. Remember that discussion of how different bigotry is unique? The progressives tend to conflate all hate under one umbrella. So they conclude that the solutions must also be identical, and that we also are in a racist, misogynistic, homophobic culture that needs the solutions. And that's why people still call for black representation, or Asian representation, or Muslim representation, as if that will fix the problems those communities face.
In other words, intersectionality and representation are just further attempts at finding easy solutions to complex problems.
 

Abhorsen

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In other words, intersectionality and representation are just further attempts at finding easy solutions to complex problems.
Kinda. Representation really did work for the problem it was designed for, the two homophobic tropes I pointed out. It helps the invisible gay problem and also normalizes gays, which solves the second problem of Gays being unnatural/depraved. In addition, it is easy for creators to do, because it doesn't require new characters, just queering an existing character, especially one that's not in a committed relationship. It was a great solution for a unique problem that faced the LGBT community.

But for the other minorities, you are totally right. More people on television won't lower gang violence, result in married mothers, or change the wealth gap, for example.
 

Shipmaster Sane

You have been weighed
No thank you; I prefer to be flexible, as opposed to snapping whenever I see someone expressing an opinion I don't like.
You would consider a lack of confidence a strength, I suppose.



That's the thing, they COULD do WOKE well

BUT they're not exactly feeling right, they're either angry or feeling smug as hell
So I'm still pissed at the Harley Quinn butchery that's going on in the cinematic universe.

Harley Quinn has one of the great 'romances' in DC comics, at least as far as story goes. Her relationship with the Joker is abusive as hell, with him never caring about her. Meanwhile, her constantly going back to him is a great storyline because it matches with the reality of abusive relationships while also allowing for reestablishing status quo in-universe. To make the story even better, there is her bestfriend(as of 1993)/love interest (teased as early as 1998) Poison Ivy, who's trying to effect a break up, but it never lasts, always doomed to be destroyed by Harley's self destructive behavior of going back to Joker.

There are a great number of good stories that have been built on this. This dynamic leads to stories that are practically designed for messages progressives would believe in, like how abusive relationships happen, a lesbian romance, a feminist narrative, etc. Any halfway competent writer who wanted to push a woke narrative could have used those, and created a good story.

But somehow, in trying to write this, they first made Joker not the bad guy in Suicide Squad, and have him rescue Harley. The fuck? Oh, let's basically rewrite one of Harley Quinn's defining relationships. It's like a Batman with alive parents. Sure, he might still be called Bruce, but that's a totally different character, and much less interesting.

Then on top of this, in the Birds of Prey movie, they include a ton of random girls, but not, oh, I don't know, Harley's Best friend/love interest? Who was a bird of prey? It's like they are trying to ruin the movie. And her emancipation? Never mentions the Joker. Literally Roman Sionis just should have been the joker. That was the point of that movie, but I guess the predecessor fucked it up.

And the weirdest part is that wokeness isn't the reason for this. Had they written Harley authentically, the story would have been woker, but in a more honest fashion.
Competently done evil should not be something you hope for. It's a good thing that they're incompetent in their propaganda.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
It's a good thing that they're incompetent in their propaganda.

How else will GetWokeGoBroke almost become a rule for current-to-future generations of creators even outside the West(Japan is included in said West)given that even in the Philippines we got our SJW Far Left types
 

Abhorsen

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Competently done evil should not be something you hope for. It's a good thing that they're incompetent in their propaganda.
I think these aren't movies trying to be political to be political, but instead pretending at politics to get easy woke money. My hypothesis was and is that this woke phase is hollywood just trying to get money again, but on the wrong tangent. If they had quality writers, they wouldn't be doing this tangent.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
I think these aren't movies trying to be political to be political, but instead pretending at politics to get easy woke money. My hypothesis was and is that this woke phase is hollywood just trying to get money again, but on the wrong tangent. If they had quality writers, they wouldn't be doing this tangent.

I think that’s the guys on top, the writers and the actors and other entertainment creators are the ones who are REALLY into it
 

Abhorsen

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I think that’s the guys on top, the writers and the actors and other entertainment creators are the ones who are REALLY into it
No. First, they're not on top. Producers, network execs, and other sources of financing are. Second, I think that a lot of them aren't really into it, but are in a cancel culture, and know that being woke financially benefits them.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
No. First, they're not on top. Producers, network execs, and other sources of financing are. Second, I think that a lot of them aren't really into it, but are in a cancel culture, and know that being woke financially benefits them.

That’s what I meant. By guys on top, they’re those guys you mentioned who believe it would get them money but don’t believe in it themselves.

The guys who are REALLY into it and most fanatical are the writers and actors and other entertainment celebrities, low and high.

But I think even those creators don’t actually really really really really believe in it all
 

Abhorsen

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The guys who are REALLY into it and most fanatical are the writers and actors and other entertainment celebrities, low and high.

But I think even those creators don’t actually really really really really believe in it all
Look, measuring belief using a number of really's doesn't work. Please clarify.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Look, measuring belief using a number of really's doesn't work. Please clarify.

Simply put, I don’t think they’re that really actual believers themselves either, even when they’re fanatical about it

It’s just something to show their friends and their kinda small representation of the population and social media

They may also just be into it, in order to relieve whatever psychological problems they got like feeling really inadequate, constantly needing attention, a desire to be part of the Hollywood circle
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag

They're going through a very rough moment.

Hopefully they learn from this and make sure to see whether or not the WOKEtivists they're paying are a waste of money or not
 

LifeisTiresome

Well-known member

They're going through a very rough moment.
Good. I hope they lose so much. I hope all these corporations lose so much just as I hope all the fucktard so called Journalists lose their jobs.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Good. I hope they lose so much. I hope all these corporations lose so much just as I hope all the fucktard so called Journalists lose their jobs.

Willful ignorance & stupidity & delusional arrogance are a weakness. No, not just a weakness, but a sin that eclipses every other one of the Seven Deadly Sins(+Apathy) as even an evil man can tell when they're in danger or not.
 

Lord Sovereign

The resident Britbong
Reset the clock.

They've race swapped Liet Kynes in the new Dune film.

4tvlw04cfss41.jpg


By the Golden Throne, when does this fucking end?
 

Abhorsen

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Honestly, I don't care about the race swap. It was a book originally, and I don't think it indicated a race for this character. The gender, though, is a problem. Liet Kynes is from a different planet, his race is immaterial.
 
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