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"Woke" Franchises

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I'll be the first to admit that all of this has messed me up, like a lot.

Oh how bad you're asking? In David Annendale's 40K Novel Death of Antognis I had an irrational hatred for Canoness Errant Setheno because certain people said I should be angry about a woman (a high ranking Sister of Battle mind you, yes with a one of a kind rank) is being inserted into a Space Marine book. Well she stands on her own merits, doesn't overshadow the MCs, does useful things in the plot, and I would call her the embodiment of pragmatism based on her actions and worldview.

Then she shows up in Annendale's Yarrick Series, specifically the 2 meat of the story books, the first was long before she was her current rank and the latter felt almost forced for her to be on Armageddon. But even then she still works perfectly in the story without overshadowing Yarrick, actually at the end I wanted her in a solo book instead of a supporting character, many other agree with me, I was excited that my other favorite short story Death Watch The Varago Fastness had her make a cameo at the end and that this is a prequel to her first appearance.

I started to realize that I had a problem then.

Having one side bombard me with pointing out how agendas and propaganda for social engineering are pushed into fiction with promotion of GLBT, strong women, social justice, positive discrimination, and disadvantaging the men in some way like having a male character die to make for the female one.

Meanwhile the other side shouts out there is bigotry and their characters need a voice and I'm not going on about this.

I really hate how Star Wars, Star Trek, Doctor Who, James Bond, the MCU, Marvel Comics, Toy Story, etc are all going downhill in quality. Actually look at Battlefield V for an excellent example of politics taking place over the product.

What do all of you think when you look at modern Western media?



 
D

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Strong female characters can be written very well. It depends on the context, of course. For example you hear almost nobody complaining about Rogue One. Likewise Wonder Woman was everything you expect from a Wonder Woman movie. Nobody was angry about Ripley in the Alien movies, can you possibly make a stronger protagonist role than that one? But Sigourney Weaver made it incredible. I don’t have any issue with Rey from The Force Awakens either. However, a lot of the plot and secondary characters in The Last Jedi were utterly awful SJW representationalism.
 

Marduk

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I'll be the first to admit that all of this has messed me up, like a lot.

Oh how bad you're asking? In David Annendale's 40K Novel Death of Antognis I had an irrational hatred for Canoness Errant Setheno because certain people said I should be angry about a woman (a high ranking Sister of Battle mind you, yes with a one of a kind rank) is being inserted into a Space Marine book. Well she stands on her own merits, doesn't overshadow the MCs, does useful things in the plot, and I would call her the embodiment of pragmatism based on her actions and worldview.

Then she shows up in Annendale's Yarrick Series, specifically the 2 meat of the story books, the first was long before she was her current rank and the latter felt almost forced for her to be on Armageddon. But even then she still works perfectly in the story without overshadowing Yarrick, actually at the end I wanted her in a solo book instead of a supporting character, many other agree with me, I was excited that my other favorite short story Death Watch The Varago Fastness had her make a cameo at the end and that this is a prequel to her first appearance.

I started to realize that I had a problem then.

Having one side bombard me with pointing out how agendas and propaganda for social engineering are pushed into fiction with promotion of GLBT, strong women, social justice, positive discrimination, and disadvantaging the men in some way like having a male character die to make for the female one.

Meanwhile the other side shouts out there is bigotry and their characters need a voice and I'm not going on about this.

I really hate how Star Wars, Star Trek, Doctor Who, James Bond, the MCU, Marvel Comics, Toy Story, etc are all going downhill in quality. Actually look at Battlefield V for an excellent example of politics taking place over the product.

What do all of you think when you look at modern Western media?



Yeah, it's an easy way to get angry about something for no good reason.
But there is a fairly easy solution to reason the way out of this.
Start identifying "wokeness" properly - it's a pattern, not a single point.
Adapt the old saying "One is accident, two is coincidence, three is enemy action".
Properly "woke" work with a properly woke "author" will never, ever, absolutely not limit itself to just one, and not even particularly big "woke point" like having a major female character, one who doesn't spout feminist and other progressive slogans on top of that. No, a properly woke work will be full of this stuff, otherwise a careless reader may not even notice how woke the author is, and no woke author can accept such a risk - everyone has to know!
 

CarlManvers2019

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I love Jonathan Pageau!


But no one understands Fury Road is harshly non feminist.
You sure? Years back I read some article about how it essentially is feminist

Also, I think pretty much the entire apocalypse is men’s fault and them making some crazy evil “masculine” society where boys are encouraged to be “manly” and almost all women are breeders and made to be used for breastmilk
 

CarlManvers2019

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Also, to clarify, I believe there’s a difference between Woke Franchises with “minority” characters and Franchises that already had them

People were reading Marvel/DC and enjoying its non-“ciswhite heterosexual male” characters before SJWism went into overdrive and they advertised how they’re the first whatever

I wouldn’t consider the Ms Marvel 2005-2010 series I read to be WOKE just because the MC is female
 

Shipmaster Sane

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You sure? Years back I read some article about how it essentially is feminist

Also, I think pretty much the entire apocalypse is men’s fault and them making some crazy evil “masculine” society where boys are encouraged to be “manly” and almost all women are breeders and made to be used for breastmilk
The women in the film are deluded to the point of Suicide. Remember that Max has to -literally- stop them all from killing themselves for a utopian fantasy.
 

CarlManvers2019

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The women in the film are deluded to the point of Suicide. Remember that Max has to -literally- stop them all from killing themselves for a utopian fantasy.
Honestly don’t remember the film so completely, so don’t remember the suicidalness

That said besides Furiosa, the girls weren’t of that much use
 
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Fury Road was a good movie. It had sincerely compelling characters. Furiosa was raised from birth to be a warrior and had served an evil warlord for decades; she’s a very complicated character who doesn’t fit into a simple morality tale.
 

CarlManvers2019

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Fury Road was a good movie. It had sincerely compelling characters. Furiosa was raised from birth to be a warrior and had served an evil warlord for decades; she’s a very complicated character who doesn’t fit into a simple morality tale.
I thought she only got raised to be one, post-enslavement and maybe possibly due to being infertile.
 

Lanmandragon

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Strong female characters can be written very well. It depends on the context, of course. For example you hear almost nobody complaining about Rogue One. Likewise Wonder Woman was everything you expect from a Wonder Woman movie. Nobody was angry about Ripley in the Alien movies, can you possibly make a stronger protagonist role than that one? But Sigourney Weaver made it incredible. I don’t have any issue with Rey from The Force Awakens either. However, a lot of the plot and secondary characters in The Last Jedi were utterly awful SJW representationalism.
What's hilarious avout the "strong female" I Wars. Is that it always existed always. Leia was a straight up killer full stop. She was also the leader of the entire rebellion. Hell even the infamous "metal bikini" ends with her choking Jabba to death. Yet for whatever reason (commie bullshit) that wasn't good enough.
 

Shipmaster Sane

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Honestly don’t remember the film so completely, so don’t remember the suicidalness

That said besides Furiosa, the girls weren’t of that much use
Yes, the girls were a massive liability.


Think about this movie from Furiosa's perspective. She knows, deep down, this whole quest is folly and going to get them all killed, really watch her interactions with Max. She knows.

But she just... cant face reality. She wants to live in fairy land, like the idiot girls who dump gallons of water into the desert to clean themselves. She's grasping at a dream, and throwing away life because it's too painful.

Max makes her face reality. She doubles down, and doubles down, until even when she sees her dream is nothing but dust, she just dusts herself off and keeps on pretending. Max makes her turn around. To face nightmarish reality, the only place there can be any actual victory.



"I wont lie. It'll be a hard day. But the only thing a hundred more days in that direction, is more salt."
 

CarlManvers2019

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"I wont lie. It'll be a hard day. But the only thing a hundred more days in that direction, is more salt."
Didn't realise that, I thought that the whole fertile water-y grassland that Furiosa came from actually existed.....well it somehow became the desert swamp thing

How many years was it since the start of the apocalypse?
 

Shipmaster Sane

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Didn't realise that, I thought that the whole fertile water-y grassland that Furiosa came from actually existed.....well it somehow became the desert swamp thing

How many years was it since the start of the apocalypse?
Oh it existed in some form anyway, at one point, and the women who ruled it apparently let it turn into a waste.

But thats not the point. Furiosa is a practical person, she knows not to base her life on fairytales. She knows she cant run away from the world into a never-neverland, but she tries anyway. It's symbolic.



How many years it's been is an interesting question, because it's clear the only people who remember the time before are ancient... except for Max.


Max isn't really a man, I say. He's more like a spirit that people have to bond with to have a future.
 

CarlManvers2019

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Oh it existed in some form anyway, at one point, and the women who ruled it apparently let it turn into a waste.

But thats not the point. Furiosa is a practical person, she knows not to base her life on fairytales. She knows she cant run away from the world into a never-neverland, but she tries anyway. It's symbolic.

How many years it's been is an interesting question, because it's clear the only people who remember the time before are ancient... except for Max.


Max isn't really a man, I say. He's more like a spirit that people have to bond with to have a future.
I think it was reclaimed by the desert or something, I think it has to do with whatever nuclear war that occurred before.

Except for Max? I remember watching the first Mad Max movie, his home looked to have guys from that more civilised time and it wasn't crappy
 

CarlManvers2019

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What's hilarious avout the "strong female" I Wars. Is that it always existed always. Leia was a straight up killer full stop. She was also the leader of the entire rebellion. Hell even the infamous "metal bikini" ends with her choking Jabba to death. Yet for whatever reason (commie bullshit) that wasn't good enough.
I think it may be a problem with the writers themselves, they probably know actual good writing, but are on some sort of hate or spite-thing that makes them want to go make some "perfect" female character to bash men with.

Also, I think there maybe an attempt at making all of these "Strong Females" androgynous-to-masculine in appearance, even more evident in superhero comics







 

Shipmaster Sane

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I think it was reclaimed by the desert or something, I think it has to do with whatever nuclear war that occurred before.

Except for Max? I remember watching the first Mad Max movie, his home looked to have guys from that more civilised time and it wasn't crappy
Think about it. Max was like, thirty when things were just "bad but civilization was falling apart slowly", then he was roughly the same age when enough time had passed so that everyone had gone ballistic and memory of the regular world was getting foggy, then he's still thirty when it seems like a whole generation has passed and no one under the age of eighty remembers the time Mad Max one takes place in.


Think about the fact that Nox doesn't even know what a tree is, or how even the old women that look twice Max's age talk about the time before the war as if they were children during it.
 

Lanmandragon

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I think it may be a problem with the writers themselves, they probably know actual good writing, but are on some sort of hate or spite-thing that makes them want to go make some "perfect" female character to bash men with.

Also, I think there maybe an attempt at making all of these "Strong Females" androgynous-to-masculine in appearance, even more evident in superhero comics







What's amusing aboit that is it demonstratees thier own sexism. As they clearly feel to have a strong female. They must posses masculine traits. As if feminine wonen cant be strong. It's utterly ridiculous my mom and sisters are femine as hell. Yetstrong as iron. Hell my little sister is a Marine Corp Sergent (she maxed the make standard). Yet submissive to her husband and femine. I'd bet on her in a brawler with any feminists. Shit pisses me off.
 

Shipmaster Sane

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What's amusing aboit that is it demonstratees thier own sexism. As they clearly feel to have a strong female. They must posses masculine traits. As if feminine wonen cant be strong. It's utterly ridiculous my mom and sisters are femine as hell. Yetstrong as iron. Hell my little sister is a Marine Corp Sergent (she maxed the make standard). Yet submissive to her husband and femine. I'd bet on her in a brawler with any feminists. Shit pisses me off.
Well, to these people the only Strength a person can have is Power, and the only Power a person can have is direct physical Power.

They don't understand any power dynamic other than a boot on a chest, they think every single conceivable state of inequality must come down to that image.

They just want to be the Boot.
 
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