Britain Why Conservatives conserve nothing

[almostinsane]

All except for the last bit, I agree pretty strongly on. As to the last bit...

Change where the 'liberal/conservative' balance is. When the liberal is arguing for bodily autonomy ala recreational drug use as a legal matter, and the conservative is arguing about the deleterious social effects thereof, you can have a reasonably healthy society.

When the liberal is arguing about how if you don't approve of your children being fed hormones for the opposite gender you're committing child abuse, and the conservative is trying to explain that sexualizing children is bad, your society is not in a healthy place.

As I said, I was talking about the conservative/liberal balance in the 19th century sense. It was accepted up until very recently that children were untouchable and should be accepted. If the envelope has been pushed into that direction, it needs to be pushed back hard. Right now, it needs to be pushed back hard.

Ah but many a reactionary would say liberalism was the ground from which socialist and hedonism sprung up from.

While that’s obviously debatable, you can‘t have Marx without Adam Smith.

And without Adam Smith, you wouldn't have America. We must fight for the good and reject the bad rather than reject reality. We cannot go back to feudalism or mercantilism.

 

[Deleted member 88]

*On the note of the Anti Christian reactionaries, their bizarre esotericism(and by that I mean-inane and stupid “interpretations” of the Bible they literally pull out of their ass) and Anti Semitism(a given) aside-they are proof that apparently you can be “reactionary” enough to reject Christianity on grounds that it’s too liberal, soft, or universalist, (or more bluntly...Jewish).

I’m sure at some point we’ll have some reactionary who rejects Socrates or even Thales maybe, as prefiguring Drag Queen Story Hour and Transgenderism.

Though at that point, your either fantasizing about Atlantis/Hyperborea or your a Paleooboo. Who wants to return to a Hunter Gatherer lifestyle.

^the above are absurd examples(though that exists in RL-at least on far right blogs and Twitter) that shows that reactionary thought can be extremely arbitrary.

As to when you decide “when things went wrong”.

 

[Aldarion]

And without Adam Smith, you wouldn't have America. We must fight for the good and reject the bad rather than reject reality. We cannot go back to feudalism or mercantilism.

Why not?

*On the note of the Anti Christian reactionaries, their bizarre esotericism(and by that I mean-inane and stupid “interpretations” of the Bible they literally pull out of their ass) and Anti Semitism(a given) aside-they are proof that apparently you can be “reactionary” enough to reject Christianity on grounds that it’s too liberal, soft, or universalist, (or more bluntly...Jewish).

I’m sure at some point we’ll have some reactionary who rejects Socrates or even Thales maybe, as prefiguring Drag Queen Story Hour and Transgenderism.

Though at that point, your either fantasizing about Atlantis/Hyperborea or your a Paleooboo. Who wants to return to a Hunter Gatherer lifestyle.

^the above are absurd examples(though that exists in RL-at least on far right blogs and Twitter) that shows that reactionary thought can be extremely arbitrary.

As to when you decide “when things went wrong”.

Personally, I believe things started going wrong with urbanization, and kicked into high gear with globalization / internationalization. And my ideal society is basically 7th-9th century Byzantine Empire or Croatia (so rural, but with strong middle class of small to medium landowners and very limited overhead - honestly, jokes aside, Byzantine bureocracy and government in general was extremely small). Problem is that such a society is nowadays rather unlikely or outright impossible thanks to various technological and other developments.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

I don’t know about you guys, but I think that Far Left sort of countries or people maybe endemic with narcissistic sociopaths

These ones however know that they don’t have much going for them, though not all

They’re not all good looking, young, physically powerful, highly intelligent, skilled or hardworking but things like Identity Politics helps them be able to have influence/control over those whom usually would be able to easily dismiss them

The ones who are already rich and/or popular can use it for similar purposes, which is why you have much of Hollywood and the Entertainment Industry full of guys who like pretending to be a bunch of saints and lecturing people about how greedy and bigoted they are

That Colin Kapaernik guy, I think started the kneeling thing, guy from what I heard wasn’t doing so well and was in danger of being kicked out. But when he started kneeling before the anthem he could remain in the spotlight.

All of those celebrities can remain in ever new and available roles so long as they provide some illusion of relevance, until the money runs out

The biggest question is this, what can Conservatism give these narcissistic sociopaths that the Far Left can? What can you give people who pretend to be about caring for others but deep down care only about themselves?

Because, I think deep down people think hard work is either too hard or unlikely to produce results and whatever talent they may have may not be enough to remain relevant or worse they don’t even have talent to begin with and they too know things like their looks will fade

 

[LordsFire]

Ah but many a reactionary would say liberalism was the ground from which socialist and hedonism sprung up from.

While that’s obviously debatable, you can‘t have Marx without Adam Smith.

Secularism is the ideology that these modern hells spawned out of, the rejection of God.

'Classical Liberalism' is an ideology that, as part of a greater Christian worldview, is an extremely functional culture by which to have society operate.

As with basically every other political ideology, remove it from a worldview with a coherent moral system, and it runs amok.

 

[Mimas]

Though at that point, your either fantasizing about Atlantis/Hyperborea or your a Paleooboo. Who wants to return to a Hunter Gatherer lifestyle.

Wow.

I didn't know there was actually a term for the hunter/gatherer thing. I had a... sort of... friend in college who was very vehement about how agriculture was evil, and how society would be more morally upright if we were to return to a hunter/gatherer society.

He had a lot of other crazy ideas, but our schedules were almost identical and I had him in a lot of classes. Which meant I heard his rants a lot.

I found that it was usually best to point out that:
- a hunter/gatherer society cannot support the current world population.
- even if his goal was somehow ethically achieved, it would not prevent future generations from progressing to our current society a second time. It could even be likely if knowledge/books are preserved.
- a hunter/gatherer society cannot go into space, nor has air conditioning, nor has fun electronics or internet. So NO, I will not just concede that you are right about going to hunting/gathering.

I had to tell him so many times that I would not just concede that he was right on the subject.

Seriously. I've gone hunting/fishing with my family and friends. I don't enjoy it and only do it because they do. Why would I want to do it for survival on a daily basis?

 

[Bacle]

I'm a Conservative, and I am well aware that civilization goes in more than one direction.

And healthier, stable, more lawful, less corrupt societies are the exception, not the norm.

It takes active, concerted effort to maintain a healthy society, because there will always be active effort to tear it down, and simple entropy working on top of that. As the saying goes, freedom isn't free.

Any element of 'progress,' either real progress or the drek that progressives try to push, can be turned back, and it is not necessarily remotely true that it can be turned back as easily as it was turned forward.

I said the clock only goes one way, which is the absolute truth.

Tech won't disappear, we aren't going to forget germ theory, or quantum/astro-physics, forget liberals ideas, or go back to being serfs to anyone.

The direction of civilzation can be directed to many paths, but time cannot be rewound.

 

[StormEagle]

Marxism was ultimately an outgrowth of the French Revolution, as so many destructive ideologies and philosophies are.

Specifically, Marxism/Leninism are the children of the Jacobins and the Reign of Terror. They are the basest instinct of the left given power and purpose. No argument or dissent can be tolerated or condoned, and any such anti-revolutionary thought must be purged violently and mercilessly.

The modern left, as well, are the children of Robespierre instead of Washington. They’ve just exchanged guillotines for social destruction and alienation...for now.

Conservatism is the political equivalent of King Louise. Desperately trying to halt the revolution, but doing little to try and reverse course.

What is needed now isn’t conservatism, but bold reactionary thought and action. Trump has been a good first step, but there needs to be a plan and leaders to rally around after he leaves.

The democrats must be defeated, as many times as necessary , until they stop acting like sons of the French Revolution and reconcile themselves with the American Revolution.

 

[almostinsane]

I don’t know about you guys, but I think that Far Left sort of countries or people maybe endemic with narcissistic sociopaths

These ones however know that they don’t have much going for them, though not all

They’re not all good looking, young, physically powerful, highly intelligent, skilled or hardworking but things like Identity Politics helps them be able to have influence/control over those whom usually would be able to easily dismiss them

The ones who are already rich and/or popular can use it for similar purposes, which is why you have much of Hollywood and the Entertainment Industry full of guys who like pretending to be a bunch of saints and lecturing people about how greedy and bigoted they are

That Colin Kapaernik guy, I think started the kneeling thing, guy from what I heard wasn’t doing so well and was in danger of being kicked out. But when he started kneeling before the anthem he could remain in the spotlight.

All of those celebrities can remain in ever new and available roles so long as they provide some illusion of relevance, until the money runs out

The biggest question is this, what can Conservatism give these narcissistic sociopaths that the Far Left can? What can you give people who pretend to be about caring for others but deep down care only about themselves?

Because, I think deep down people think hard work is either too hard or unlikely to produce results and whatever talent they may have may not be enough to remain relevant or worse they don’t even have talent to begin with and they too know things like their looks will fade

1. Why would we want narcissists who are ready to turn on us the moment it's popular?

2. Those narcissists are young millennials. They don't vote. Eventually, they will grow up and stop being narcissists or they will die. Natural Selection is a beautiful thing.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

1. Why would we want narcissists who are ready to turn on us the moment it's popular?

2. Those narcissists are young millennials. They don't vote. Eventually, they will grow up and stop being narcissists or they will die. Natural Selection is a beautiful thing.

I keep forgetting they aren’t the majority of people in the West

 

[Doomsought]

It is because political conservatives have lost their connection with Christianity. They need to assert fundamentalist Christians as the far right, rather than allowing the left to decide what is far right. By including Fundamentalist Christians as an anchor-point moderate conservatives can prevent the left from manipulating the overton window.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

1. Why would we want narcissists who are ready to turn on us the moment it's popular?

2. Those narcissists are young millennials. They don't vote. Eventually, they will grow up and stop being narcissists or they will die. Natural Selection is a beautiful thing.

Just realised, in-relation to Natural Selection, don't forget the Free Market

There's a reason GetWokeGoBroke's a thing, though it takes awhile

These young millennials are more concerned with rioting and psychologically and even physically abusing people behind a mask of compassion to care about spending time and money on something that was WOKE-ified for them

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

It is because political conservatives have lost their connection with Christianity. They need to assert fundamentalist Christians as the far right, rather than allowing the left to decide what is far right. By including Fundamentalist Christians as an anchor-point moderate conservatives can prevent the left from manipulating the overton window.

Because we all know all fundamentalist christian nations are still standing and haven't ended in inevitable failure.

 

[Deleted member 88]

There never was a fundamentalist Christian nation. At most certain states were socially sort of so(as in like Alabama-maybe for a decade).

Fundamentalism has never been the dominant ideology of the USG.

 

[Senor Hortler]

The Christianity has never been the issue. The natural law has been. Conservatism isn't just 'not the left'; it's an embracing of the fundamental nature of humanity. It accepts hierarchy and inequality and knows that they are good things. Beyond that it understands that there is something more. War without more is just one for money, a birth, a marriage, a death; all mean something. They aren't simple events in a vacuum.

Conservatism in the UK conserves nothing because it has lost that essential truth. That is isn't about the money, or the flags, or the banners, or the rhetoric. Liberalism kills your soul. It dehumanises you in a most fundamental way by attempting to make everything uniform; the remove the differences and hierarchies, and in doing so they try and remove what we makes us people.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Liberalism kills your soul. It dehumanises you in a most fundamental way by attempting to make everything uniform; the remove the differences and hierarchies, and in doing so they try and remove what we makes us people.

I think they ironically create more differences and hierarchies, hell it maybe secret but they end up also making more sheer hatred for other peoples, they even make it so that Social Advancement is even more limited

They do this by giving minorities special favors or “reparations” and even let them get away with doing shit on others and even themselves and as a result they can think themselves above the law

Their planned economies actually hinder the smaller businesses from functioning or competing under the weight of all those taxes and regulations

Their “free education” actually becomes mandatory and costs extra taxation and the resulting education isn’t even so good and also comes filled with propaganda and even with pedophilic teachers protected by Teacher’s Unions

In other words in wanting to “enforce equality” they end up destroying people’s chances at it

But here’s the thing, people are SCARED of freedom or think of it as being very RISKY to even have

There’s the thinking that “the Government” which they vote into do “good things” will do them all perfectly and they’re so scared of each other’s possible malice and incompetence that they’ll go looking for answers from a “God” that’s “there” and they think will solve all their problems

And that’s why “the Government” gets to be about the only ones with guns

This doesn’t stop “rebellions” to have them replaced because the elites or those in-charge of said “governments” whether they be politicians, businessmen, celebrities or even religious figures will constantly want to depose one another and get to be ontop

Which is why “Cancel Culture” can even hit fellow Far Left types

Freedom can’t offer that “100% guarantee” so why vote for those Conservative policies?

When people are so dumb and/or scared and/or smug they’ll vote for “Hate Speech Laws” even if they use their heads and realize it can hit them hard

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

The Christianity has never been the issue. The natural law has been. Conservatism isn't just 'not the left'; it's an embracing of the fundamental nature of humanity. It accepts hierarchy and inequality and knows that they are good things. Beyond that it understands that there is something more. War without more is just one for money, a birth, a marriage, a death; all mean something. They aren't simple events in a vacuum.

Conservatism in the UK conserves nothing because it has lost that essential truth. That is isn't about the money, or the flags, or the banners, or the rhetoric. Liberalism kills your soul. It dehumanises you in a most fundamental way by attempting to make everything uniform; the remove the differences and hierarchies, and in doing so they try and remove what we makes us people.

Eh there is one fundamental aspect of humanity that conservatism has either failed to grasp or at the very least doesn't have an answer for and yet it's plagued them in the form of revolutions and new age philosophies. that aspect is the following. "If I'm not content I will make others crumble before."



Conservatism embraces that which makes us people, but what if someone for whatever reason whether it be greed, insecurity or maybe legit opression doesin't like the system. maybe they don't benifit or at least can't see the benifit, then what do you do. Look at the trans humanist philosophy, cyborgization and genetic alteration, typically these things don't come from the fundamental love of hummanity, or human nature it comes from a since of "hummanity sucks how do we change it at a fudamental level." What do you do about that when ever such ideology can be spread without fighting a shot? You can't without essentially defeating yourself and admitting that the only thing that matters is winning or losing. We had an answer to this for a while, but it either gets neglected or it's not enough for some people. It's called M.A.D and it used to be enforced by the 2nd amendment. When both sides are made fully aware that violence lead to assured death, both sides are forced to act like grownups, talk things out and FIX them. But again the 2nd ammendment has been fully neglected.

 

[Deleted member 88]

Conservatism embraces that which makes us people, but what if someone for whatever reason whether it be greed, insecurity or maybe legit opression doesin't like the system. maybe they don't benifit or at least can't see the benifit, then what do you do. Look at the trans humanist philosophy, cyborgization and genetic alteration, typically these things don't come from the fundamental love of hummanity, or human nature it comes from a since of "hummanity sucks how do we change it at a fudamental level." What do you do about that when ever such ideology can be spread without fighting a shot? You can't without essentially defeating yourself and admitting that the only thing that matters is winning or losing. We had an answer to this for a while, but it either gets neglected or it's not enough for some people. It's called M.A.D and it used to be enforced by the 2nd amendment. When both sides are made fully aware that violence lead to assured death, both sides are forced to act like grownups. But again the 2nd ammendment has been fully neglected.

Well much to our discredit, conservatives/reactionaries have ignored this.

And argued "the Jews/illuminati/Masons/the Devil himself have conspired from above and caused people to be discontented with their lot".

Which even if you believe any such conspiracy(or even that supernatural forces are at fault)-doesn't address the main cause, people will be, are, and were discontented and unhappy.

I'd argue that is perhaps the central problem with Reactionary/Conservative politics-there will always be some people who get the boot in the face and want to tear down the system.

And honestly I don't have an answer to solve this fundamental problem.

Beyond more modernist solutions like brainwashing or the like.

Discontent is especially troublesome in a traditional society as it has no outlet. Where in progressive/leftist societies-discontent is pretty much the energy for how things work.

 

[LifeisTiresome]

Eh there is one fundamental aspect of humanity that conservatism has either failed to grasp or at the very least doesn't have an answer for and yet it's plagued them in the form of revolutions and new age philosophies. that aspect is the following. "If I'm not content I will make others crumble before."



Conservatism embraces that which makes us people, but what if someone for whatever reason whether it be greed, insecurity or maybe legit opression doesin't like the system. maybe they don't benifit or at least can't see the benifit, then what do you do. Look at the trans humanist philosophy, cyborgization and genetic alteration, typically these things don't come from the fundamental love of hummanity, or human nature it comes from a since of "hummanity sucks how do we change it at a fudamental level." What do you do about that when ever such ideology can be spread without fighting a shot? You can't without essentially defeating yourself and admitting that the only thing that matters is winning or losing. We had an answer to this for a while, but it either gets neglected or it's not enough for some people. It's called M.A.D and it used to be enforced by the 2nd amendment. When both sides are made fully aware that violence lead to assured death, both sides are forced to act like grownups, talk things out and FIX them. But again the 2nd ammendment has been fully neglected.

Leftism has ruled society for a while. Are people happy now? We all know the answer to that. Has the promised free love come to fruition? We need only look around to know the answer to this.

 

[LifeisTiresome]

Discontent is especially troublesome in a traditional society as it has no outlet. Where in progressive/leftist societies-discontent is pretty much the energy for how things work.

No. There is discontent, just look at the rioting in the streets and all the reactionaries. Its just leftism silences people and deplatforms them.

Leftism doesn't care about free speech. That is a lie. Infact, nobody cares about free speech. When one is in power, you want to crush your enemy thus limit speech.