Britain Why Conservatives conserve nothing

ATP

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It logical.Christians do not try conserve anything in ancient Rome,but change it.The same goes for everybody who achieved anything.
If you say,that conserving status quo is enough,you are arleady dead.
 

CarlManvers2019

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It logical.Christians do not try conserve anything in ancient Rome,but change it.The same goes for everybody who achieved anything.
If you say,that conserving status quo is enough,you are arleady dead.
That’s why I say it’s time to go off and destroy and defund worldwide things like the Department of Education and stop it with the tradition of thinking you can only learn stuff like social skills and actual facts and skills from schools and universities

Get rid of private school too

As well as realize that coming from a great college doesn’t mean you’re a fucking genius and your Boss-To-Be has to actually consider hiring someone else
 

Lord Sovereign

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Conservatism's problem, as it is throughout the Western World, is that it isn't so much an "ideology" but more of a check and balance on progress. As we know it, conservatism evolved alongside classical liberalism, which was an ideology far more interested in the freedoms of the individual instead of overhauling civilisation in general. Together, liberalism and conservatism presided over the flowering of Western Civilisation in the 18th and 19th centuries. However, in the early 20th, liberalism was usurped/infected by socialism, a ceaselessly advancing force bent on creating utopia by any means, no matter how long it took. Conservatism, being a check and balance petrified of rocking the boat, was ill equipped in evolutionary terms to not only contain radical leftism, but be dragged along with it as it shifted the overton window.

Essentially, conservatism as we know it is hopelessly out of date and we need an alternative to combat out of control "progress." Traditionalist Nationalism seems to be the best we can get, but Britain's had a problem with that since forever because our Nationalists (Morgoth here among them) seem to be hopelessly incapable of vacating Mosley's shadow.
 

Bacle

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Conservatism's problem, as it is throughout the Western World, is that it isn't so much an "ideology" but more of a check and balance on progress. As we know it, conservatism evolved alongside classical liberalism, which was an ideology far more interested in the freedoms of the individual instead of overhauling civilisation in general. Together, liberalism and conservatism presided over the flowering of Western Civilisation in the 18th and 19th centuries. However, in the early 20th, liberalism was usurped/infected by socialism, a ceaselessly advancing force bent on creating utopia by any means, no matter how long it took. Conservatism, being a check and balance petrified of rocking the boat, was ill equipped in evolutionary terms to not only contain radical leftism, but be dragged along with it as it shifted the overton window.

Essentially, conservatism as we know it is hopelessly out of date and we need an alternative to combat out of control "progress." Traditionalist Nationalism seems to be the best we can get, but Britain's had a problem with that since forever because our Nationalists (Morgoth here among them) seem to be hopelessly incapable of vacating Mosley's shadow.
This neatly summarizes some of the reasons 'traditional/social' conservatives have effectively been shut out of politics and society for a while now. They have a...almost fossilized mindset and seem bent on trying to turn back a clock that only goes one direction.

It's why more Libertarian-minded, nationalist, and environmental conservatives, as well as moderates and classical liberals, have major players on the Right, while trad/social conservatives have been less and less relevant to Western politics as a whole. The classical liberals, Libertarians, and others are more open to adapting to current realities, and the limits those realities impose on what is politically achievable and what is not, than trad cons.

Not everything the trad cons want is bad, or unreasonable. But many take it too far and are unwilling to accept functional compromises or that society has changed in ways they cannot undo, and not all of those changes are bad things either.

But the trad cons, in my experience, are almost Lefty-like in how much they hate people who aren't as ideologically pure as them.
 

Senor Hortler

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This neatly summarizes some of the reasons 'traditional/social' conservatives have effectively been shut out of politics and society for a while now. They have a...almost fossilized mindset and seem bent on trying to turn back a clock that only goes one direction.

It's why more Libertarian-minded, nationalist, and environmental conservatives, as well as moderates and classical liberals, have major players on the Right, while trad/social conservatives have been less and less relevant to Western politics as a whole. The classical liberals, Libertarians, and others are more open to adapting to current realities, and the limits those realities impose on what is politically achievable and what is not, than trad cons.

Not everything the trad cons want is bad, or unreasonable. But many take it too far and are unwilling to accept functional compromises or that society has changed in ways they cannot undo, and not all of those changes are bad things either.

But the trad cons, in my experience, are almost Lefty-like in how much they hate people who aren't as ideologically pure as them.
They are more 'open' to those ideas because they are the same bloody ideas as the other side. Just slower; when you elect a libertarian they don't undo jack shit, they don't stop shit and they don't prevent shit. They put on pause the lefts wishes and expand/maintain the globalist hegemony that causes this shit.

The 'problem' is that the modern conservative is a lefty with a tax solution; nothing more. When you say 'adapt to the current realities' what you mean is cowtow to the left on all fronts, but hold up a false shield of 'well as long as it's legally done' as though the left hasn't poisoned the legal system and is gleefully using it against you. Trad cons don't hate those that are as ideologically pure as them, they hate people who push for the liberalism of the left; and people who still support modern cons do just that.

You openly admit in your very first sentence that the 'clock only goes one way' for you. You're just a fucking liberal who's behind the times. Ironically though since you've got me on ignore you won't see this. You don't ignore the lefty posters though, just the right wing ones; amusing as far as tells go.
 
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LifeisTiresome

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They are more 'open' to those ideas because they are the same bloody ideas as the other side. Just slower; when you elect a libertarian they don't undo jack shit, they don't stop shit and they don't prevent shit. They put on pause the lefts wishes and expand/maintain the globalist hegemony that causes this shit.

The 'problem' is that the modern conservative is a lefty with a tax solution; nothing more. When you say 'adapt to the current realities' what you mean is cowtow to the left on all fronts, but hold up a false shield of 'well as long as it's legally done' as though the left hasn't poisoned the legal system and is gleefully using it against you. Trad cons don't hate those that are as ideologically pure as them, they hate people who push for the liberalism of the left; and people who still support modern cons do just that.

You openly admit in your very first sentence that the 'clock only goes one way' for you. You're just a fucking liberal who's behind the times. Ironically though since you've got me on ignore you won't see this. You don't ignore the lefty posters though, just the right wing ones; amusing as far as tells go.
Well Bacle calls himself a Centrist and in my eyes, Centrists are basically leftist lite or lefty allies. So you are correct.

I will be completely honest. I am not a conservative. I don't know what I am. But I know that I will not kowtow to leftism with its bullshit of so called anti-racism which is just racism that is socially approved, will not kowtow to feminism and I will not kowtow to Trans people and their activists totalitarian acts* nor will I kowtow to accepting pedos cause "Muh ethics" and "Muh feelings"

* = Personally, I have no issue with trans people and their surgeries and sterilizing themselves cause they are infact doing everyone a kind of favor as they are taking themselves and their insanity out of the gene pool. But they are pushing this to kids and they are totalitarians in how they want to control and change everything. Thats what I don't like.

As for those who don't do the castrating surgeries? Again, no issues. They do it to themselves. So its a whatever from me. Its the pushing on kids I really really don't like.
 

Fleiur

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Not everything the trad cons want is bad, or unreasonable. But many take it too far and are unwilling to accept functional compromises or that society has changed in ways they cannot undo, and not all of those changes are bad things either.
How so? When does society become too libertine in your mind?
 

Bacle

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How so? When does society become too libertine in your mind?
'Too libertine' as defined by what metric?

I believe in liberty, of the 'You have a right to do what you want, as long as it only impacts you, it's legal, and you consent to it.' vareity, but also understand the philosophy of 'You have a right to throw a punch, right till you actually hit someone else's face.' and 'don't destroy the biome in pursuit of profit, stupid' line of thinking.

However, I believe that there are limits to liberty impossed by the laws of physics, the laws of nature, and by human nature. Those are hard limits enforced by something more powerful than any ideology.

I am not interested in 'transending' human nature like the Left, in creating a utopia of any sort, and know how foolish it is to try. At the same time, I'm not convinced that the answers to todays problems exist exclusively in any holy text of any one group, in trying to 'reset' society back to any prior state, or in depending on tech alone to fix shit.

I'm wise enough and educated enough to know I don't have all the answers. But I know in my gut that just trying to force 'traditional/social conservatism' on people/the nation won't help things, at least not on its own, and not if those same types keep showing how true Horseshoe theory is for politics.

Like, if you all want religion back in public schools, you better be willing to accept that means ALL religions get equal coverage and gov support in the curiculum.
 

Fleiur

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'Too libertine' as defined by what metric?

I believe in liberty, of the 'You have a right to do what you want, as long as it only impacts you, it's legal, and you consent to it.' vareity, but also understand the philosophy of 'You have a right to throw a punch, right till you actually hit someone else's face.' and 'don't destroy the biome in pursuit of profit, stupid' line of thinking.

However, I believe that there are limits to liberty impossed by the laws of physics, the laws of nature, and by human nature. Those are hard limits enforced by something more powerful than any ideology.

I am not interested in 'transending' human nature like the Left, in creating a utopia of any sort, and know how foolish it is to try. At the same time, I'm not convinced that the answers to todays problems exist exclusively in any holy text of any one group, in trying to 'reset' society back to any prior state, or in depending on tech alone to fix shit.

I'm wise enough and educated enough to know I don't have all the answers. But I know in my gut that just trying to force 'traditional/social conservatism' on people/the nation won't help things, at least not on its own, and not if those same types keep showing how true Horseshoe theory is for politics.

Like, if you all want religion back in public schools, you better be willing to accept that means ALL religions get equal coverage and gov support in the curiculum.
You say libertinism should be limited by human nature. But look around you. All the degenerate things that are happening is because all objective standards of morality are tossed out the window and people are told to do what they want.

In the end, society needs objective values underpinning it. The Left calls theirs social justice. What kind of objective values can libertarianism give? You have the NAP, but that's thrown out the window once inequality is considered aggression.
 

CarlManvers2019

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I am not interested in 'transending' human nature like the Left, in creating a utopia of any sort, and know how foolish it is to try. At the same time, I'm not convinced that the answers to todays problems exist exclusively in any holy text of any one group, in trying to 'reset' society back to any prior state, or in depending on tech alone to fix shit.
Honestly, in the end it all ends up being in the hands of the individual

Whom for all his flaws can still overcome them

“Man has no moral instinct. He is not born with moral sense. You were not born with it, I was not - and a puppy has none. We acquire moral sense, when we do, through training, experience, and hard sweat of the mind.”
-Robert A. Heinlein

At the same time whilst an individual shouldn't simply base all his thinking and values entirely on that of society simply because it's the norm, he/she should NOT make his thinking and values just because they are outside of the norm


". . . a woman who never used capitals in her books, and a man who never used commas . . . and another who wrote poems that neither rhymed nor scanned; . . . There was a boy who used no canvas, but did something with bird cages and metronomes, . . .

A few friends pointed out to Ellsworth Toohey that he seemed guilty of inconsistency; he was so deeply opposed to individualism, they said, and here were all these writers and artists of his, and every one of them was a rabid individualist. “Do you really think so?” said Toohey, smiling blandly."
-Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead

"To the extent that the anti-conformist is merely reacting against what other people do or think, he is not motivated by his own independent judgments, values, or standards."

Otherwise they’ll look more-or-less like a bunch of edgy tryhards who’d probably cut their own balls off even if deep down they don’t want to and know it’s a horrible idea, because it would “stick it to The Man” who is probably looking on and wondering if this so-called rebel is not so different from his many slaves

So yeah, no kidding on the idea that the full objective realisation of what is "Right & Wrong" is something that will require much thinking, learning and experience

Trying to think outside the box whilst not simply grabbing whatever seems different without analyzing whether or not it works is kinda hard....people may whether they admit or not want to be free....from free will if only because they don’t care or respect themselves much and just want to go with the flow and get a cookie and be absolved of their actions even if it somehow leads to them committing genocide or helping in it

“Just Following Orders” would be their excuse, though TBF they’d be too afraid to stand up for themselves and their friends and family might get lynched in his place
 
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I will be completely honest. I am not a conservative. I don't know what I am. But I know that I will not kowtow to leftism with its bullshit of so called anti-racism which is just racism that is socially approved, will not kowtow to feminism and I will not kowtow to Trans people and their activists totalitarian acts* nor will I kowtow to accepting pedos cause "Muh ethics" and "Muh feelings"
I don't know what I am either unless tested but I fear I am downright sheeple who's no better than allowing dictators in power for just wanting to grill.
 

Cherico

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I don't know what I am either unless tested but I fear I am downright sheeple who's no better than allowing dictators in power for just wanting to grill.
there is nothing wrong with just wanting to grill, there is nothing wrong with just wanting to live your life and be left alone.

In normal times through out most of human history, most elite. Be they royals, nobles, guild masters, religious leaders, generals, despots, and many others under stood the value of letting people like that be. We dont live in normal times.
 

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there is nothing wrong with just wanting to grill, there is nothing wrong with just wanting to live your life and be left alone.

In normal times through out most of human history, most elite. Be they royals, nobles, guild masters, religious leaders, generals, despots, and many others under stood the value of letting people like that be. We dont live in normal times.
I know but whatever choice we make determines what happens to us later on. We just have to live with it and hope for the best.

At least I wasn't one of those suckers born during a really tough time to make that choice but maybe even today that may still happen when a neighbour would tattle or kill me for wrong think if where I lived in really went shit creek.
 

Bacle

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You say libertinism should be limited by human nature. But look around you. All the degenerate things that are happening is because all objective standards of morality are tossed out the window and people are told to do what they want.

In the end, society needs objective values underpinning it. The Left calls theirs social justice. What kind of objective values can libertarianism give? You have the NAP, but that's thrown out the window once inequality is considered aggression.
NAP?

Also, 'degenerate' in who's eyes? And since when has humanity ever had 'objective values'?

Every culture developed to fit it's own geographical, geological, ecological, and socio-political surroundings, which resulted in a wide variety of 'objective values' guiding different groups.

Humans social values are products of the environment they were molded in, not the result of any 'objective values'.
 

Bacle

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Non aggression principle.
Huh, ok, I'd never seen that acronym before in relation to liberal thinking.

This is part of the problem with trad cons, they keep thinking they know what the other groups 'actually' think/want and often put words in or mouths or assume we accept the same premises they do.
 

Lord Invictus

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I’m starting to think this is why fascism and clericalism were large scale movements in the early 20th century. Because many conservatives recognized the same problem.

Unfortunately third positionist politics has the shadow of the swastika and the Holocaust hanging it over it.

So the liberal leftist beast never stops running.

I’m starting to think we do need to some sort of “revolutionary” movement. That actually seeks to smash the liberal-left consensus and world order.
 

Duke Nukem

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Huh, ok, I'd never seen that acronym before in relation to liberal thinking.

This is part of the problem with trad cons, they keep thinking they know what the other groups 'actually' think/want and often put words in or mouths or assume we accept the same premises they do.
Yea NAP is like an ancap thing.
 
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