Breaking News Violence resumes in Hong Kong.

Hlaalu Agent

Nerevar going to let you down
Founder
I think it's like every other communist state that's ever existed, myself. They're just in a "War Communism" phase of allowing more capitalism. Their objective remains to implement socialism, and their actual policy remains enriching the elites, just like by the end the People's Republic of Yugoslavia had people mocking the communists as only loving money.

It is almost as if after a regime like that is established, only the most ruthless and ambitious people rise to the top instead of the actual true believers.

You need to look into how the government promotes the ethnic Han at the expense of all other ethnicities. You also have a lot of direct government control and intervention in the economy, which is a core mark of a Fascist state. Strong degrees of nationalism, hell, you even have the persecution narrative and a push for resurgence into areas that are "historically" their domain. You also have aggrandizing of the military, government control and censorship of media, oh, and ethnically based concentration and "reeducation" camps.

Mainland China is as close as any government gets to fascism in the world today, and it's only a polite fiction that nobody calls them that.

You do have a point. But that also makes me wonder if it is just another dynasty, that every Chinese government was a dynasty, even the ones that pretended not to, and this is why we see these traits.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
You do have a point. But that also makes me wonder if it is just another dynasty, that every Chinese government was a dynasty, even the ones that pretended not to, and this is why we see these traits.


The author had some rather strange ideas for what Russia and China would become
 

Hlaalu Agent

Nerevar going to let you down
Founder

The author had some rather strange ideas for what Russia and China would become

Communist-Imperial China, that isn't too far out there...
 

S'task

Renegade Philosopher
Administrator
Staff Member
Founder
It is almost as if after a regime like that is established, only the most ruthless and ambitious people rise to the top instead of the actual true believers.



You do have a point. But that also makes me wonder if it is just another dynasty, that every Chinese government was a dynasty, even the ones that pretended not to, and this is why we see these traits.
Oh, I also think that Mao and the Communists fit into Chinese dynastic cycle history quite well. It's one of the reasons for their reforms and recentralization now, I think. They are attempting to build an "initial dynasty" that manages to last more than 100 years.

China is not fascist, they are communists, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. This is what Communism inevitably results in.
Bear in mind, I reject the idea that fascism is on the right entirely, so me calling something fascist has nothing to do with attempting to disassociate things from communism.
 

Hlaalu Agent

Nerevar going to let you down
Founder
Oh, I also think that Mao and the Communists fit into Chinese dynastic cycle history quite well. It's one of the reasons for their reforms and recentralization now, I think. They are attempting to build an "initial dynasty" that manages to last more than 100 years.

Trying not to lose the mandate of heaven too, I guess?

Bear in mind, I reject the idea that fascism is on the right entirely, so me calling something fascist has nothing to do with attempting to disassociate things from communism.

I agree, and take it a step further. I see fascism as fundamentally an authoritarian centrist position.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Oh, I also think that Mao and the Communists fit into Chinese dynastic cycle history quite well. It's one of the reasons for their reforms and recentralization now, I think. They are attempting to build an "initial dynasty" that manages to last more than 100 years.


Bear in mind, I reject the idea that fascism is on the right entirely, so me calling something fascist has nothing to do with attempting to disassociate things from communism.

You know, I do think there was even a tension within the movements called "fascism" today between those who saw what they were proposing as a restoration of traditional values, beliefs, customs, and ways of life adapted through the lens of the modern age, and those who saw it as a revolutionary centrist movement like Mussolini. Of course, it's then easy to characterise it all as being revolutionary centrist because for the most part people with that ideology became much more notorious. But it's downright silly to say that, for instance, José Antonio Primo de Rivera wasn't a conservative.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
The only way this is going to end is with China attempting to stomp the people of Hong Kong into submission with overwhelming force. I just hope that, when it finally happens, the regressive left isn't still trying to defend China; but ultimately, I know it's a false hope.
 

Lanmandragon

Well-known member
The only way this is going to end is with China attempting to stomp the people of Hong Kong into submission with overwhelming force. I just hope that, when it finally happens, the regressive left isn't still trying to defend China; but ultimately, I know it's a false hope.
They will be the protesters used pepe and had evil white man flags. Clearly Bejing is in the right and HK is full of Nazis.
 

Captain X

Well-known member
Osaul
Wouldn't be surprised if when China finally stops caring as much about the rest of the world watching and stomps down, that they'll essentially blame the rest of the world for making them do so.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Very heavy fighting at the Polytechnic University now

Large fires broke out at entrances to the Polytechnic University (PolyU), where protesters hurled petrol bombs and shot arrows from behind barricades.

Officers earlier warned they could use live ammunition if protesters did not stop attacking them using such weapons.

Months of anti-government protests have caused turmoil in the city.

The latest violence is however some of the worst the semi-autonomous Chinese territory has seen since the movement began. The police have become targets for radical demonstrators, who accuse them of excessive force.

Demonstrators have been occupying the PolyU for days. Fresh clashes between protesters and the security forces erupted on Sunday, with tear gas and water cannon being met with petrol bombs, bricks and other improvised weapons.

A police media liaison officer was wounded in the leg with an arrow on Sunday.

What is the latest with protests?
Sporadic battles continued throughout the night, with police making a push to re-take the campus at about 05:30 local time (21:30 GMT). They were met with petrol bombs, which started blazes around the campus.

The police appear to have subsequently withdrawn and were later seen waiting outside the campus.

The protesters occupying the university had been told to leave immediately on Sunday evening but hundreds remained inside.

p07v7ssl.jpg



Protesters around Hong Kong Polytechnic University have armed themselves with an array of weapons

"I hereby warn rioters not to use petrol bombs, arrows, cars or any deadly weapons to attack police officers," police spokesman Louis Lau said in a statement broadcast via Facebook late on Sunday.

"If they continue such dangerous actions, we would have no choice but to use the minimum force necessary, including live rounds, to fire back."

Protesters appeared to try and fuel a large fire at the university's main entrance to try and keep police outside.

Fire officials worked to contain the blazes, but plumes of smoke could be seen across the city's skyline on Monday morning.

Earlier in the stand-off, police fired a live round in response to what they said was a car hurtling towards officers near the university.

Presentational grey line
An anti-government protester holds a molotov cocktail during clashes with police outside Hong Kong Polytechnic University (PolyU) in Hong Kong, China, November 17, 2019.
Image copyrightREUTERSDetermined to fight to the end
By the BBC's Gabriel Gatehouse in Polytechnic University, at 04:00 Hong Kong time

It's only the most radical left now - or the bravest, depending on your point of view. About a hundred of them are hunkered down at a junction outside the main entrance. On the other side of the road: an armoured police vehicle, and a water cannon truck.

Every 10 minutes or so, these two sides play a game of cat and mouse. The police fire tear gas and the water cannon advances, squirting noxious blue liquid. The protesters, crouching behind umbrellas, respond with petrol bombs and rocks fired from improvised catapults. The police vehicles retreat. The net result is zero. It's a stalemate. There are several hundred more protesters milling around the campus. Medics treat those who have been hit by tear gas or the blue liquid in the water cannon, which stings on contact with the skin. Others man barricades at the many entrances to this sprawling campus which is now completely surrounded. When the police announced a 22:00 deadline for the protesters to surrender or face the possibility of lethal force a significant number changed out of their black outfits, ditched their masks, and disappeared into the night. Some were arrested but others escaped.

Those who remain seem determined to fight to the end, no matter the risk. "If I die, remember me," one young man said to me. "Do you believe that could happen?" I asked. He gave a nervous shrug.

Presentational grey line

The protests in Hong Kong, which began in June, were triggered by a now-withdrawn plan to allow extradition to mainland China but have since expanded into wider demands for greater democracy and for investigations into the actions of police.

The government recently confirmed the city had entered its first recession for a decade.

In recent days, Hong Kong's university campuses have been the scenes of pitched battles between police and demonstrators.

A police truck on a bridge above the Cross Harbour tunnel, which links Kowloon and Hong Kong island, was set on fire on Sunday and it was forced to retreat by large crowds of protesters hiding behind umbrellas and hurling petrol bombs.

Including noteworthily that we are reaching Ukrainian Maidan levels of improvised weapons, with bow-and-arrow fire against the police as well as the more common petrol bombs. As Leslie Fish would say... Pray that the law lets you have a gun, but if it doesn't, fight back however you can.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top