prinCZess
Warrior, Writer, Performer, Perv
It does seem worthy of note that Hong Kong's somewhat-borked system is not solely a fault of the CPC as the business interests on the island have their own guaranteed legislative representatives...And the incentive for economic betterment on their end incentivizes them massively to vote alongside of the pro-Beijing parties so that Hong Kong continues to be better integrated and economically tied with mainland China and they continue to receive investment and the associated favor, and interest from those in the government to make sure that investment is made good.
Of course, then one can point out that the CPC and mainland China also make habit of applying soft pressure to those business interests through the avenue of economic consequences or legal...scrutiny or disfavor...to make sure they are even further 'encouraged' to side with the pro-Beijing elements of the legislature (the shift editorial independence or journalistic willingness-to-criticize the SCMP underwent in the aftermath of Alibaba acquiring it as the big-name example of the phenomenon).
On an anecdotal note...Some of the videos of stuff on twitter and what little sentiment I can catch from social media stuff reporting on or associated with the protestors reminds me greatly of the early protests in Venezuela...But that could be inaccurate and I don't know for sure because official Chinese reporting is about as reliable as a two-dollar pistol and the protestors stuff is, by its nature, going to be biased in favor of protestors and making things look large/dramatic to increase visibility.
Tis an 'interesting' situation, if folks will forgive me running with the (I think) apocryphal Chinese saying.
Of course, then one can point out that the CPC and mainland China also make habit of applying soft pressure to those business interests through the avenue of economic consequences or legal...scrutiny or disfavor...to make sure they are even further 'encouraged' to side with the pro-Beijing elements of the legislature (the shift editorial independence or journalistic willingness-to-criticize the SCMP underwent in the aftermath of Alibaba acquiring it as the big-name example of the phenomenon).
On an anecdotal note...Some of the videos of stuff on twitter and what little sentiment I can catch from social media stuff reporting on or associated with the protestors reminds me greatly of the early protests in Venezuela...But that could be inaccurate and I don't know for sure because official Chinese reporting is about as reliable as a two-dollar pistol and the protestors stuff is, by its nature, going to be biased in favor of protestors and making things look large/dramatic to increase visibility.
Tis an 'interesting' situation, if folks will forgive me running with the (I think) apocryphal Chinese saying.
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Terthna
Professional Lurker
I haven't been able to find any unbiased reporting on the Hong Kong situation; either the protesters are heroes trying to defend their freedoms, or they're terrorists trying to undermine the Chinese government. I tried to look at both perspectives, but the latter is such blatant pro-CCP propaganda that it's really not worth taking seriously; and it usually comes from the same sort of people who try to justify everything the CCP does, including the Tienanmen Square Massacre.
Considering the MSM tried to paint the protestors as fascists, I'm inclined to side with them over the chinese regime, because as a rule of thumb when the MSM claims something is round, it's actually square.
PsihoKekec
Swashbuckling Accountant
Problem for protestors is that China can keep up this for a long time, gradually attriting them through time, with some similarity to how the French government dealt with Yellow Vests.
GooseActual
We go hard on Earth!
It’s my belief the Chinese government is perfectly willing to let Hong Kong get as violent as possible for as long as they can, and only release the police to... keep the pot agitated.
HK only works because foreign businesses thrive there, and they’ll look at the violence and think “fuck that” and go elsewhere. HK will loose money, have a depression and who’s willing too swing in and help them out... with conditions of course.... the PRC. They just took over HK without being the bad guys.
Meh. I live an hour from the border, Shenzhen is a much nicer city anyway.
HK only works because foreign businesses thrive there, and they’ll look at the violence and think “fuck that” and go elsewhere. HK will loose money, have a depression and who’s willing too swing in and help them out... with conditions of course.... the PRC. They just took over HK without being the bad guys.
Meh. I live an hour from the border, Shenzhen is a much nicer city anyway.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
The Yellow Vests haven't been "dealt with"; they're still protesting.
PsihoKekec
Swashbuckling Accountant
They have been effectively marginalized and sidelined.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
Where? In the mainstream media? I don't think that matters. Not as long as they're still fighting.
Lanmandragon
Well-known member
They're heroes it's that simple. The PRC like all communist regimes is inherently evil. Anyone who lives under such a state is not only justfied but has a duty to resist it.
Shipmaster Sane
You have been weighed
HK should fight back however it can, as hard as it can, they're absolutely fucked either way.
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
You know, I recall once that someone on this forum quoted a Heinlein scene about two farmers or soldiers arguing why some Federation would NOT attack, citing how impractical it is and how said Federation would be hit back HARD
The next day, the Federation attacked, the reason is that the leaders who live and die by power live by a different logic
They CANNOT allow any show of defiance to remain out in the open
“Saving Face” is VERY important, “Lose Face” once and even on one occasion and it will be very hard to get it back
Or that’s how it is in theory, those worried may just be paranoid and over-exaggerating things and no one may take that one moment as a reason to attack
D
Deleted member
Guest
There are tipping points, however, to quote from Frank Herbert in the paraphrase, "the harder you clench sand in your fist, the faster it runs between your fingers." This was in turn paraphrased by Princess Leia in Episode IV of Star Wars. "The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
People obey governments, in that view, out of symbolism, out of their moral authority and their legitimacy established in national custom and tradition.
I might also quote from Al Stewart's Rain Barrel:
The long and short of it is that this is the one hope that Hong Kong has: That the brutality of the ChiCom regime will turn its own people against it when the teeth are bared. That's the vague hope that the people of Hong Kong have to fight for, and why they should not stop, they should not compromise, they should push and push as hard as they can.
Of course, Red China has invested enormously in suppressing information and suppressing hope in their people in the mainland, precisely to prevent this scenario which brought down most of the rest of the communist world from happening to them. They are racing to make "1984" real to save themselves from the destruction inherent in their own brutal illegitimacy.
People obey governments, in that view, out of symbolism, out of their moral authority and their legitimacy established in national custom and tradition.
I might also quote from Al Stewart's Rain Barrel:
The long and short of it is that this is the one hope that Hong Kong has: That the brutality of the ChiCom regime will turn its own people against it when the teeth are bared. That's the vague hope that the people of Hong Kong have to fight for, and why they should not stop, they should not compromise, they should push and push as hard as they can.
Of course, Red China has invested enormously in suppressing information and suppressing hope in their people in the mainland, precisely to prevent this scenario which brought down most of the rest of the communist world from happening to them. They are racing to make "1984" real to save themselves from the destruction inherent in their own brutal illegitimacy.
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CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
@Captain-General
Honestly, I think this is also why the Western Far Left are able to hold so much power
They don’t need to actively attack people who disagree, they just have to shame them or use PR tactics or just depend on widespread willful ignorance and cite that instead that it is YOU who is the oppressive bastard
China and the Western Mainstream Media is also doing this by labeling protestors as Fascists
Also, kinda funny but I’m currently reading Isaac Asimov’s Forward To Foundation
Both Hari Seldon and Eto Demerzel, the First Ministers of Emperor Cleon kept emphasizing to him NOT to go around executing even confirmed traitors as that would make him be seen as a despot
Simply exiling them whilst humiliating them would do, like they did with a guy called Jorumun who was taking cues from Elizabeth Warren impression by putting on a wig and pretending to be from a provincial planet and talking about how he’s “For the common people”
Turned out he wasn’t from a provincial planet, he was from the main capital planet and from one of its richest sectors
He ended up banished to said provincial planet both humiliated and forgotten and NOT made into a martyr whilst making The Emperor look both very wise and nice, because he could/should have handed him over to his home sector who were full of people who would see his actions as a grave crime and legally put him to death
Honestly, I think this is also why the Western Far Left are able to hold so much power
They don’t need to actively attack people who disagree, they just have to shame them or use PR tactics or just depend on widespread willful ignorance and cite that instead that it is YOU who is the oppressive bastard
China and the Western Mainstream Media is also doing this by labeling protestors as Fascists
Also, kinda funny but I’m currently reading Isaac Asimov’s Forward To Foundation
Both Hari Seldon and Eto Demerzel, the First Ministers of Emperor Cleon kept emphasizing to him NOT to go around executing even confirmed traitors as that would make him be seen as a despot
Simply exiling them whilst humiliating them would do, like they did with a guy called Jorumun who was taking cues from Elizabeth Warren impression by putting on a wig and pretending to be from a provincial planet and talking about how he’s “For the common people”
Turned out he wasn’t from a provincial planet, he was from the main capital planet and from one of its richest sectors
He ended up banished to said provincial planet both humiliated and forgotten and NOT made into a martyr whilst making The Emperor look both very wise and nice, because he could/should have handed him over to his home sector who were full of people who would see his actions as a grave crime and legally put him to death
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PsihoKekec
Swashbuckling Accountant
They are defeated, the government outlasted them and relegated them to the ranks of common nuisances, like the car burnig gangs.
Not a good thing.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
I don't agree with your assessment. Mainly because the government's tactic from the very beginning was to pretend that's the case, as governments almost always do. How are you able to tell if they've been able to succeed at doing so or not? Because usually what seems to happen as a result of that tactic, is a Trump or a Brexit out of nowhere.
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And here we go:
apnews.com
Hong Kong protester shot as China marks its 70th anniversary
HONG KONG (AP) — In a fearsome escalation of violence, Hong Kong police shot a protester in the chest at close range Tuesday, leaving the teenager bleeding and howling on the ground.
apnews.com
Shipmaster Sane
You have been weighed
I cant find regular updates on the situation in HK. This time last year you could have a live play by play of the Yellow Vests on the chans, now it is literally nothing but eurotrash shrieking about how brunettes arent white and how much they hate America.
By the time a story hits main stream news it's been filtered five times and is practically ancient history.
By the time a story hits main stream news it's been filtered five times and is practically ancient history.