Britain UK government considers regulating loot boxes as gambling

Should lootboxes be regulated and/or banned?

  • Yes, I am a moral busybody and want to ban things I dont like because I dont like them

  • No, I like freedom and think this is stupid

  • I dont care and think both sides are wrong


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Terthna

Professional Lurker
I'm fine with certain small regulations like that on lootboxes. But there's a big difference between those regulations and what people on the internet cry for. Because the "Pay $60 for the game" has become the One True Model for which people are supposed to pay for video games, and anything else is blasphemy.
Unfortunately, countries like the United States don't even have that much; lootboxes are completely unregulated here. As for the $60 dollar thing, that's a different discussion; one I'm probably not qualified to participate in, considering I haven't paid even close to that much for one game in over a decade. These days, I only play indi games; or retro games.
 

Battlegrinder

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Obozny
The big question I would pose is what is the difference really between packets of trading cards and lootboxes? The only major one I can see is that people tend to like trading cards more, or at the very least there is less dislike for them.

Since this post seemed to start the "why are pokemon cards fine but lootboxes bad", I figured I'd respond here.

In the sense of "pay money for random stuff and hope you get the thing you want", they're not, it's in all the small details.

Trading cards are sold in stores as physical goods. This means that there's a hard limit on how much you can spend, another person involved who can cut you off, and slower "buy thing, open it, see if you got what you want" cycle that lacks all the fancy gimmicks video games have to make it flashy and exciting to open a new lootbox. It's also harder for kids to nlow hundreds of dollars of their parent's money on pokemon cards vs in app purchases.

Trading card games are also a much more niche thing, whereas lootboxes are omnipresent in video games. The more people involved, the more pressure there will be to take action, so cards get overlooked and games get focused.
 

Tyzuris

Primarch to your glory& the glory of him on Earth!
I'm fine with the state regulating loot boxes as gambling and using its regulatory power to destroy loot boxes as a viable method of gaining profits.
 

Morphic Tide

Well-known member
I'd prefer a safety net based on price ratio control. Make the in-game currency for duplicates mandatory and set a soft ceiling on losses for using that currency to get a desired item. Alongside category rarity caps and publicly-listed odds, possibly required on the lootbox itself, which makes the category-rarity limit helpful by being able to just list the rarities instead of every specific item.

Would take far more math-speak than normal for laws, but it'd cap off the amount of lootboxes a single person could usefully purchase. Maybe go so far as to require in-game acquisition of the lootboxes with an expected playtime-to-price rate (capped at both ends for both gouging and grindfests), so it is always paying instead of playing at a fixed, somewhat reasonable, rate.

Basically, legally force everyone to do a better version of Blizzard's lootbox model, which is already one of the better ones. Would limit design for grindfests that let you pay instead of sinking a ton of time in, but if the playtime is large enough to be cumbersome to fitting the legislated range's "best deal" limit, they probably deserve the potential profit of using a lootbox system being gutted. They can also still just go with direct item sales, which would be untouched by this, so pay-to-win garbage just needs to stick to in-your-face item sales.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
If we're talking about specific regulations, I'd be in favor of mandating that games with lootboxes be specifically labeled as such (none of this "in-game purchases" obfuscation, where it could mean lootboxes, DLC, or microtransactions), as well as requiring that they must inform the customer what their odds are of getting any particular prize. I also want a straight up ban on deliberately targeting kids.
 

JagerIV

Well-known member
Yeah, some sort of mandatory discloser would, I think, be sufficient. So when my theoretical future children bug me for a game, I can more easily determine not to do so.

Maybe something like "gambling elements" automatically boosts a game's rating to teen? Though I don't get a sense pre-teens buying loot boxes is in any way the core of the issue people have with loot boxes.
 

Hlaalu Agent

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Yeah, some sort of mandatory discloser would, I think, be sufficient. So when my theoretical future children bug me for a game, I can more easily determine not to do so.

Maybe something like "gambling elements" automatically boosts a game's rating to teen? Though I don't get a sense pre-teens buying loot boxes is in any way the core of the issue people have with loot boxes.

I believe part of it is the sheer exploitativeness of it, and the sheer money grubbing greed. The drive to monetize everything, even things that are essentially value-added in the sense that they increase the value of the game independent of its own content. Like modding.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
I believe part of it is the sheer exploitativeness of it, and the sheer money grubbing greed. The drive to monetize everything, even things that are essentially value-added in the sense that they increase the value of the game independent of its own content. Like modding.

If you’re going to feed your greed, you at the very least have to make sure you provide an adequate product in exchange

I mean, as I’ve heard Bloodborne’s Old Hunter DLC is much more accepted due to level of length and content to actually be worth said money.
 

Hlaalu Agent

Nerevar going to let you down
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If you’re going to feed your greed, you at the very least have to make sure you provide an adequate product in exchange

I mean, as I’ve heard Bloodborne’s Old Hunter DLC is much more accepted due to level of length and content to actually be worth said money.

Well, yes that is how capitalism in part works. Though there are other motivations that can drive things beyond, greed such as pride in ones work. Anyways, I agree. And greed itself can be a force of good, if it encourages people to pursue money through the right means.
 

Marduk

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Yeah, some sort of mandatory discloser would, I think, be sufficient. So when my theoretical future children bug me for a game, I can more easily determine not to do so.

Maybe something like "gambling elements" automatically boosts a game's rating to teen? Though I don't get a sense pre-teens buying loot boxes is in any way the core of the issue people have with loot boxes.

Basically, legally force everyone to do a better version of Blizzard's lootbox model, which is already one of the better ones. Would limit design for grindfests that let you pay instead of sinking a ton of time in, but if the playtime is large enough to be cumbersome to fitting the legislated range's "best deal" limit, they probably deserve the potential profit of using a lootbox system being gutted. They can also still just go with direct item sales, which would be untouched by this, so pay-to-win garbage just needs to stick to in-your-face item sales.
The legal system just simply doesn't have the agility, reaction time or expertise to achieve this desired result in this manner. Lots of rule lawyering would ensue, and the likes of EA or Activision can afford lots of good lawyers.

For one that's something that lawmakers may actually be able to write as a law without screwing it up in a dozen ways, and having it become obsolete in a few months anyway as the worst offenders refit their predatory monetisation schemes to technically fit within the law, as the politicians pat themselves on their backs and prepare campaign ads on how they have solved the problem.
That's a much more pragmatic reason i think, applying regardless of how anti regulation on principle one is.
What about someone who didn't know in advance? Perhaps they just don't follow online gaming news media, and maybe they have a relative who likes Star Wars and video games.
That's probably the biggest problem here, one not directly favoring or disfavoring regulations... But the fact is that the gaming industry offenders under the predatory monetisation scheme are greatly benefitting from information superiority. They have quality experts, studies, and even individual data on how their customers work...
But most customers have little idea about how these games work, doubly so before purchasing them, which makes them unable to make informed decisions on whether they are worth buying. Worse yet, they have bad information, from the industry's own advertising, or the lackey industry press that's more interesting in helping them as an auxiliary PR department as long as they get to push cultural marxism with that platform as a side hobby...

Yeah, many people here can say that it's not a problem, because in their case it's true. They are adults or older teenagers, decently informed on the gaming industry and its practices, not having a clinical gambling problem, and are possibly even conscious about what games they like and how to find less well known ones that fit the bill and aren't plagued by this kind of shenanigans.
But the fact is that people swayed by pretty graphics, cool trailers and over the top advertising slogans exist, there are many of them, and their very existence does affect the market. It makes all those abovementioned game industry experts focus on thinking up the most effective ways to separate these fools from their money rather than you know, make good games reasonably cheaply. It's a terrible influence on the state of the art, leading to the inevitable conclusion of games being designed around best compatibility with monetisation schemes, grindfests designed by people who have carefully studied interesting psychological concepts like the Skinner Box.

So, who's going to do the work of informing the customers which products are properly designed, and which are just fool-money separators disguised as videogames, whether high or low budget? Certainly not the industry press, they tend to be worse than useless in this regard.

One solution worth considering would be some kind of publicly known industry association/organisation run by gamers and/or honest journalists which would review monetised games on these things and provide some concise, informative statements on them, up to and including putting them on a wall of shame even if they are a huge AAA studio that bribes all the industry press with access, paid vacation or other favors. The problem is that such organisation would need lots of public trust, which would not only require time, but unlike the existing ones, it would absolutely need to keep both industry people and unrelated ideology pushers out, because both would friggin love to co-opt such an organisation for their own respective goals the moment it acquires the tiniest smidgeon of trust.
 
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Lancelot

Well-known member
Thank the gods that someone is about to slap the likes of EA and 2K in the face. As for those saying there is a work around, thankfully regulation like this can be pretty open ended. Much like the never to be sufficiently curse internet regulation the EU did. Only in this case it's a force for good, as the open needed nature of whatever gets put into law will still apply whatever new bullshit EA thinks up.
 

ShadowsOfParadox

Well-known member
That's probably the biggest problem here, one not directly favoring or disfavoring regulations... But the fact is that the gaming industry offenders under the predatory monetisation scheme are greatly benefitting from information superiority. They have quality experts, studies, and even individual data on how their customers work...
Even someone who does their research can get screwed. Plenty of games have been fine on launch and then post review cycle ramped up the microtransactions. Just look at Black Ops 4.
 

Marduk

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Even someone who does their research can get screwed. Plenty of games have been fine on launch and then post review cycle ramped up the microtransactions. Just look at Black Ops 4.
Yup. That's a new developement that required different considerations - rather than just considering an individual game's monetisation mechanics as they are, one needs to also consider the publisher's reputation for such shenanigans and the technical possibility of forcing further monetisation in through mandatory updates.
 

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