Britain UK government considers regulating loot boxes as gambling

[FriedCFour]

Yes, because the act of using a lootbox is not essential to beat*/participate* in a game.

*Depending on if the game is a multiplayer game or not.

You aren't explaining what makes that now gambling, because last I checked most games that are gambling, like slots, poker, roulette, etc, the act of dropping cash is pretty essential to the game.

 

[Lightershoulders]

You aren't explaining what makes that now gambling, because last I checked most games that are gambling, like slots, poker, roulette, etc, the act of dropping cash is pretty essential.

...Dude. it's obvious that by game I meant video game.

There are no videogames centered around lootboxes and not gameplay, where dropping money (outside of purchasing the video game) is not essential. Where as all of those games you just named, it is essential*.

*unless you are doing a less formal gamble, where favors or such are gambled instead of cash.

 

[FriedCFour]

...Dude. it's obvious that by game I meant video game.

There are no videogames centered around lootboxes and not gameplay, where dropping money (outside of purchasing the video game) is not essential. Where as all of those games you just named, it is essential*.

*unless you are doing a less formal gamble, where favors or such are gambled instead of cash.

I'm confused as to how being optional has anything to do with determining whether its gambling or not. Why would a game that made it essential now not be gambling?

 

[Isem]

The main problem I have with lootboxes is that they're also in games aimed at kids rather then just adults which isn't an ideal state of affairs.

Aside from that and where I live there's decent amount of regulations on gambling to prevent people from gambling too much and will even let gambling addicts self ban which the casinos will enforce for them. Lootboxes don't have anything resembling that kind of thing.

 

[FriedCFour]

Aside from that and where I live there's decent amount of regulations on gambling to prevent people from gambling too much and will even let gambling addicts self ban which the casinos will enforce for them. Lootboxes don't have anything resembling that kind of thing.

Its fairly easy to get banned from a lot of games.

The main problem I have with lootboxes is that they're also in games aimed at kids rather then just adults which isn't an ideal state of affairs.

Like pokemon or the baseball cards of yesterday?

 

[ShadowsOfParadox]

Like pokemon or the baseball cards of yesterday?

how much harder do you think it is for a little kid with no concept of money to empty their parent's bank accounts in a store buying pokemon or baseball cards than anonymously online?

EDIT:

Its fairly easy to get banned from a lot of games.

not what they are talking about, they are talking about "Hi, I am a compulsive gambler but I like everything ELSE about your game, could you disable lootboxes for me so I can play your game WITHOUT ruining my life?"

RL story, a compulsive gambler got in contact with Grinding Gear Games with this sort of situation, GGG actually went and did it. It's sadly not very advertised but at least some studios WILL do this for you if you contact support.

 

[FriedCFour]

how much harder do you think it is for a little kid with no concept of money to empty their parent's bank accounts in a store buying pokemon or baseball cards than anonymously online?

That's the parents fault for giving the kid access in the first place either way. Not a companies fault you are a bad parent.

not what they are talking about, they are talking about "Hi, I am a compulsive gambler but I like everything ELSE about your game, could you disable lootboxes for me so I can play your game WITHOUT ruining my life?"

RL story, a compulsive gambler got in contact with Grinding Gear Games with this sort of situation, GGG actually went and did it. It's sadly not very advertised but at least some studios WILL do this for you if you contact support.

Thats on them to do that, and people arent infants who need the government to step in and control them because they cant stop swiping their credit cards and they need a big strong guiding hand to let them know whats okay and whats not.

 

[Lightershoulders]

I'm confused as to how being optional has anything to do with determining whether its gambling or not. Why would a game that made it essential now not be gambling?

It would be gambling either way, but if it was essential to the game, no one would buy it.

They are selling a game first, which isn't gambling (much like a happymeal, product over prize), lootboxes second, which are a separate product.

 

[FriedCFour]

It would be gambling either way, but if it was essential to the game, no one would buy it.

They are selling a game first, which isn't gambling (much like a happymeal, product over prize), lootboxes second, which are a separate product.

People love that fate game and as far as I am aware its absolutely essential.

 

[Lanmandragon]

how much harder do you think it is for a little kid with no concept of money to empty their parent's bank accounts in a store buying pokemon or baseball cards than anonymously online?

EDIT:

not what they are talking about, they are talking about "Hi, I am a compulsive gambler but I like everything ELSE about your game, could you disable lootboxes for me so I can play your game WITHOUT ruining my life?"

RL story, a compulsive gambler got in contact with Grinding Gear Games with this sort of situation, GGG actually went and did it. It's sadly not very advertised but at least some studios WILL do this for you if you contact support.

Why in the world would a kid have access to your account? Frankly if the parent is that dumb they deserve to have thier account emptied.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

That was the gimmick, yeah. But the gimmick was so that people would buy the candy, otherwise they could have just sold the toys in little cardboard boxes with question marks on it.
No, because there is a difference of intent.

The wonderball was so that people would buy the candy. They need the gimmick to sell.

Adding marshmallows to lootboxes would defeat the purpose of them, which is to sell a digital good for real currency. It would mess with their nearly 100% profit gain*. That might even cost more than gambling regulation.

*since they already made the digital good, paying the costs to make it upfront. Once they break even on it, it's all profit from there.

So, to be clear, a cardboard box with question marks on it, with a random toy inside, is gambling. But... trading card packs are not?

 

[Lightershoulders]

People love that fate game

What are you even talking about? Fate has a bunch of games, anime, and even literature. Just because I know a but about fate doesn't mean I ever play the games.

and as far as I am aware its absolutely essential.

I don't even know what you are talking about anymore, and the way you phrased it, it doesn't sound like you do either.

 

[ShadowsOfParadox]

Why in the world would a kid have access to your account?

...have you tried doing ANYTHING on the Apple App store? It NEEDS your credit card data for you to download ANYTHING AT ALL.

 

[Lightershoulders]

So, to be clear, a cardboard box with question marks on it, with a random toy inside, is gambling. But... trading card packs are not?

Trading cards are a gray area legally speaking because the intent of that is in the title. You are supposed to trade and collect(and if like yugioh, play with like a toy) it's a social thing.

But I would personally consider it a form of gambling, yes.

 

[Lanmandragon]

...have you tried doing ANYTHING on the Apple App store? It NEEDS your credit card data for you to download ANYTHING AT ALL.

Why does a child need access to an app store? Honestly why is a child buying anything without parents knowing?

 

[prinCZess]

...have you tried doing ANYTHING on the Apple App store? It NEEDS your credit card data for you to download ANYTHING AT ALL.

To butt in, that kind'a just says, least to me, that Apple is a terrible company with a bad philosophy on access and software.
Or...Says it again, anyways.

As to the topic...Gambling regs are already an absolute mess and I simply do not trust law to get involved into the digital sphere in this avenue of 'gambling'/gambling without mucking things up.
That said, publicizing and including 'lootboxes' or a name for that style of purchase-based game on the rating and advisory info appeals to me--gives parents an easy way of avoiding or being aware of it when finding stuff for their kids (and other customers who want to avoid the things benefit as well).

Semi-related, I'm also a bit disappointed with the way outright online gambling has been almost entirely holed by government. I see the argument, but it just seems like an unnecessary imposition on those with self-control to benefit those who suffer from gambling addiction...and, cynically speaking, I think the action there was driven more by existing casinos and other interested, gambling-associated parties.

The drive for stopping lootboxes, I have to say, at least centers on the moral and protective element since I don't see how companies would benefit from their regulation. So...whatever my opinion, at least it's honest all-around?

 

[FriedCFour]

What are you even talking about? Fate has a bunch of games, anime, and even literature. Just because I know a but about fate doesn't mean I ever play the games.



I don't even know what you are talking about anymore, and the way you phrased it, it doesn't sound like you do either.

Fate Grand Order. Pretty sure that game requires lootboxes to even play, and its pretty popular.

 

[ShadowsOfParadox]

Why does a child need access to an app store? Honestly why is a child buying anything without parents knowing?

if you have a phone and you want to download something onto it you need to sign in to the app store and provide your credit card. And it doesn't MATTER if you download it for your kid, the app store has your stuff. Apple at least has a setting so you can mandate that you log in again shortly after. But again, setting, not default, hard to find, not advertised. This is a problem with basically EVERY parental control scheme I've ever seen, it's hard to find, it's not advertised, it's not presented the instant the app/game/store is aware this product is being acquired for a minor.

As for the child buying things without the parent knowing, you ever heard of this thingie called "allowance"?

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

Trading cards are a gray area legally speaking because the intent of that is in the title. You are supposed to trade and collect(and if like yugioh, play with like a toy) it's a social thing.

But I would personally consider it a form of gambling, yes.

So, all the company has to do is lie about their intent, and they're A-OK selling people twenty dollar fortune cookies with loot-codes inside.

 

[Lanmandragon]

if you have a phone and you want to download something onto it you need to sign in to the app store and provide your credit card. And it doesn't MATTER if you download it for your kid, the app store has your stuff. Apple at least has a setting so you can mandate that you log in again shortly after. But again, setting, not default, hard to find, not advertised. This is a problem with basically EVERY parental control scheme I've ever seen, it's hard to find, it's not advertised, it's not presented the instant the app/game/store is aware this product is being acquired for a minor.

As for the child buying things without the parent knowing, you ever heard of this thingie called "allowance"?

Why would a kid have thier own phone? As for "allowance" my kids earn thier money. I still supervise what they buy with it. This is called parenting seems to be a lost art.